City & FFP | 2020/21 Accounts released | Revenues of £569.8m, £2.4m profit (p 2395)

Re: City & FFP (continued)

Gray said:
Instead of all the complicated rules and formulas associated with FFP would it not have been simpler to say you are not allowed and debts?

Any club completely debt free would be allowed to compete in UEFA competitions, those with debts would not.

But no they come up with a complicated system that is aimed at MCFC and their owners and which can be interpreted any way it suits them.

We should have taken legal action.

Being debt-free is an unreasonable aspiration as well. These are businesses we are talking about and debt is a perfectly valid - essential even - way of funding investment. You can't become an ice-cream man without a van and to start out and buy the van, you need a loan. Football is just the same and there's nothing wrong with sensible levels of serviceable debt, backed with a proper business plan. How would an aspiring club ever invest in players / infrastructure / whatever without incurring debt? Requiring them to be debt-free would be just as restrictive as (perhaps worse than) FFPR.
 
Re: City & FFP (continued)

Chippy_boy said:
gh_mcfc said:
wenger is a trying to manipulate the media against us again. I wouldn't be surprised if its the first of many briefings from the axis powers.

The stupid bitter git doesn't realise the only cost we are saving is wage which with players leaving etc we could have covered any way.

We need to defeat FFP . They will try new rules from fear all the time but we need win the FFP case.

If you haven't done so yet please show your support for the legal action via

<a class="postlink" href="Http://fairplayfc.org" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">Http://fairplayfc.org</a>.

Also follow us at @ffp_off

I will keep everyone updated as we go through the court process.

Any support in spreading the word with qpr/Leicester / villa fans who are being g affected would be appreciated .

A noble effort, but with 140 likes, it's probably about 49,999,860 short of being powerful enough to get things changed.

The point is we and other fans in Europe have added our names to the case currently passing through the Eu therefore our complaint has to be heard . Eu law is all for competition and protecting the consumer . It only strengthens the original case . While more likes would be nice it is an Eu judge on a matter of law that will decide the outcome not how many Facebook likes you have.
 
Re: City & FFP (continued)

unexpected item said:
M18CTID said:
Blue Maverick said:
I see us owning other clubs no different to the a yanks who own Liverpool and United having other sports teams in the States, except ours is are football teams and not baseball or American football. Boo Hoo Wenger you jealous bastard get over it.

I've just posted something in the Arsenal thread on the general forum but will repeat it here. As much as Wenger should stop talking about us when questioned by reporters, if you look at his actual comments they're not as bad as the newspaper headlines suggest.

Yes, that may be the case but he knows full well how his comments will be picked up and reported. He doesn't have to sit on his hind legs and scream 'it's not fair', the press will do that for him.

Yeah, good point mate. The press love to report anything he says about us.
 
Re: City & FFP (continued)

George Graham on this morning , showing his usual flair in matters of business and modern football, supporting wenger like a little lap dog.
Of course he was the model of financial propriety if I recall correctly.
 
Re: City & FFP (continued)

Bodicoteblue said:
George Graham on this morning , showing his usual flair in matters of business and modern football, supporting wenger like a little lap dog.
Of course he was the model of financial propriety if I recall correctly.
Don't forget loyal.
 
Re: City & FFP (continued)

Blue Maverick said:
I see us owning other clubs no different to the a yanks who own Liverpool and United having other sports teams in the States, except ours is are football teams and not baseball or American football. Boo Hoo Wenger you jealous bastard get over it.

Colorado Rapids is a football team and it's owned by, cough cough, Stan Kroenke!
 
Re: City & FFP (continued)

Seems like we will pay Lampard wages not NYCFC.

So it really cant cause any FFP troubles this way.
 
Re: City & FFP (continued)

George Hannah said:
gh_mcfc said:
wenger is a trying to manipulate the media against us again. I wouldn't be surprised if its the first of many briefings from the axis powers.
The stupid bitter git doesn't realise the only cost we are saving is wage which with players leaving etc we could have covered any way.
We need to defeat FFP . They will try new rules from fear all the time but we need win the FFP case.
If you haven't done so yet please show your support for the legal action via
<a class="postlink" href="Http://fairplayfc.org" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">Http://fairplayfc.org</a>.
Also follow us at @ffp_off
I will keep everyone updated as we go through the court process.
Any support in spreading the word with qpr/Leicester / villa fans who are being g affected would be appreciated .

worth quoting the full fairplayfc.org page again and copying it onto as many fansites etc as we can

UEFA Financial Fairplay – Fairplay for Who ?
<a class="postlink" href="https://www.facebook.com/fairplayforfans" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">https://www.facebook.com/fairplayforfans</a>


UEFA break-even requirement », i.e. the cornerstone of the UEFA Financial Fair Play regulations, is in my view, as a football club supporter, anticompetitive and unfair, in particular since:

- If ossifies the market structure, so that the established UEFA elite is protected forever from any potential serious sporting challenge.

- Consequently, this rule is a dream killer for all supporters of all clubs (in particular “sleeping giant” clubs), that can only hit the “glass ceiling” above them and will never catch up with the established elite (even if part of this elite has been building success on huge debts, since debts are not taken into account by the UEFA rule).

- Since this rule excludes funding from the owners and consequently focuses on turnover, it is once again the fans who will come under pressure to provide the extra income needed via increased prices (tickets, catering, merchandise, TV subscriptions, etc.).


Supposedly FFP is there to protect the future of football, to prevent clubs from spending too much and to save clubs from going bust.

<a class="postlink" href="https://www.facebook.com/fairplayforfans" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">https://www.facebook.com/fairplayforfans</a>

Leeds Utd would have passed FFP

Rangers would have passed FFP

Portsmouth would have passed FFP

Under FFP debt is fine, clubs in debt are fine as long as they can pay the interest . Under FFP clubs with millions of debt can spend millions. Under FFP clubs with no debt are limited to what they can spend. Funnily enough the clubs that wrote the rules are in debt and have large enough turnovers (because they are big clubs) to pay the bills. Under FFP investment from a single entity is wrong (PSG , MCFC). Investment from multiple entities is okay (Bayern).Under FFP different tax laws across countries are ignored. Under FFP historical spending is ignored. Under FFP dodgey land sales of the past are ignored. Under FFP differences in TV rights are ignored. Under FFP investment in local communities and the future is disregarded. Under FFP clubs are limited in establishing a brand able to survive under FFP. Under FFP the only way to make the money to compete with the established clubs is to charge more for sponsorship, shirt sales, ticket prices. All of which affects the fans.

FFP is there to protect the established historically big clubs. Brought in out of fear and is ultimately killing the dreams of small clubs that a “Manchester City” may happen to them. At the same time it limits choice for the casual football consumer and increases costs for all football consumers.

FFP is the wrong way to introduce fairness and transparency in football

Show you support the complaint to the EU – like the following pages

Uk Fans - <a class="postlink" href="https://www.facebook.com/fairplayforfans" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">https://www.facebook.com/fairplayforfans</a>

PSG fans - <a class="postlink" href="https://www.facebook.com/supporterscontrelefairplayfinancier?ref=hl" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">https://www.facebook.com/supporterscont ... ier?ref=hl</a>]

Liked. come on blues we need to share this with all.
 
Re: City & FFP (continued)

Point you back in the direction of this:

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.palatinate.org.uk/?p=47890" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.palatinate.org.uk/?p=47890</a>

Article 101, of the Treaty on the functioning of the EU, prohibits decisions or practices that prevent or restrict competition, which can be achieved through a variety of measures, including the control or restriction on investment, market share or any other conditions that would place a party at a competitive disadvantage.

UEFA Financial Fair Play was set up in September 2009 with the stated aim of ensuring that clubs would break-even. Clubs are not allowed to lose more than 45m Euros over a three season period; however certain costs such as infrastructure projects and academy development are excluded from calculations.

The fact is FFP prevents clubs spending more than they earn; an admirable idea in itself, if its purpose was to regulate debt and ensure clubs were being run responsibly and possess the capability to repay that debt, thus preventing situations such as Portsmouth and Leeds.

However the reality is that FFP does not prevent those cases. In fact, in October 2009 Portsmouth began to fail to pay players wages on time, however if they had been subject to FFPR regulations at that time they would have passed, with a loss of £20.9m for that monitoring period.

Barcelona and Real Madrid have spent more than the other eighteen La Liga clubs combined in the past six seasons

Similarly, pre-ADUG Manchester City were days away from administration before their takeover, however they would have passed FFP for that monitoring period with an adjusted loss of £11.7m.

In fact, FFP does not regulate debt, it instead regulates investment. Owner or shareholder investment is excluded from FFP calculations as it is deemed a “related party transaction”. Thus the rules take on an altogether different dynamic.

A club cannot spend more than it earns. What it earns is determined by UEFA, not strictly by business practice, and viable sources of income are excluded by UEFA. Therefore a club can only boost its income by increasing gate receipts, sponsorship or TV revenues, or by other similar footballing practices.

To do this the club must be more successful, to do this in modern football to any discernible degree requires investment, investment that is then prohibited by UEFA (which could be seen to contravene EU competition rules), and therefore the club fails FFPR.

Thus, in reality, rules with the stated aim of protecting clubs from liquidation are in fact protecting the elite clubs, clubs that have been pushing for exactly these regulations.

These clubs want to protect their position at the top of the game, enabling them to dominate the transfer market, service debts and make substantial profits.

The reality of the inequality of wealth distribution across football is startling, considering the profits/losses made from transfer dealings.

With clubs needing to pass FFPR regulations, any losses they make on transfer dealings can only be covered by increased commercial and other footballing revenues.

This is reflected in the transfer dealings of nine clubs. In Germany the purchases of Bayern Munich made up a fifth of the total money spent on transfers in the Bundesliga in the past 6 seasons.

In Spain, the 2 giants Barcelona and Real Madrid have spent more than the other 18 La Liga clubs combined in the past 6 seasons, whilst in England, in the same period, the signings of the top 6 spenders (Arsenal, Manchester City & United, Chelsea, Liverpool and Spurs) made up 60% of the total money spent on transfers in the Premier League.

It can only be hoped that FFPR is soon consigned to the history books

In total, the transfer spending of those 9 elite clubs comes to a total of £3.6 billion since the summer of 2008. That makes up 50% of the total transfer money spent by all the clubs in the Premier League, Bundesliga and La Liga combined.

In simple terms, the spending of 9 clubs equals the spending of the other 49 clubs. These 9 clubs also make up 82% of the total losses on transfers made by the 58 clubs combined.

These figures clearly demonstrate the uneven wealth distribution within the top European leagues, as without it those elite clubs would fail FFPR. As it is only one of those clubs is in danger of doing so, and that is because of the exclusion of investment from UEFA’s calculations.

Michel Platini, the President of UEFA, has admitted himself that the elite clubs seek to have control of their own competition and the money involved within it, in an interview with Daily Mail Sportswriter of the year, Martin Samuel.

Thus the compromises Platini and UEFA have made, including the implementation of the elitist FFPR, is the equivalent of dressing the wolf (the elite clubs) in Grandma’s (UEFA) clothes in the Little Red Riding Hood.

The reality is that Manchester City, and PSG amongst others, will now have to either comply with regulations that, as far as EU competition law goes, are on thin ice, otherwise there will be a fearsome court battle ahead this summer.

Furthermore, the Premier League season has barely finished and the big clubs are set to poach talent from smaller teams.

It seems inevitable that the likes of Adam Lallana and Luke Shaw will move on, as even if Southampton wanted to invest in top quality players and build a core around their home-grown talent to challenge for the top 4 next season, they aren’t allowed to because they would fail the Premier League version of FFPR.

It is also worth considering Aston Villa, who have been put up for sale by owner Randy Lerner. They are a distinctly less attractive proposition to potential suitors when they are not able to invest their own money into their own club, their own business.

Whilst attempts to restrict the placement of unsustainable levels of debt upon clubs, risking their financial future, would be an admirable cause, FFPR do not set out to achieve this.

Instead they are in place to protect the revenues of the elite clubs, and deny the football fans and players, who support and play for the vast majority of the other clubs, the chance to dream, achieve success and win trophies.

Wyn Grant, Professor of Politics at the University of Warwick, wrote that if Manchester City took UEFA to court, they could be “the test case that begins to pull financial fair play apart”.

The removal of FFPR, and a union between the vast majority of European clubs that are starved of money and the opportunity for success by the elite clubs, could help push European football back towards a trajectory that allowed, for example, Steaua Bucharest to make the European Cup final 25 years ago this month.

For the future of football, and for every fan, player and owner who dreams, it can only be hoped that FFPR is soon consigned to the history books.
 
Re: City & FFP (continued)

Our net spending dwarfed by Chelsea's

of-Spend-in-Seasons-GRAPH-WHOLE.jpg


Utd used the most expensive 11 throught the season last year

%C2%A3XIs.jpg


Adjusted for inflation Rio Ferdinand and Rooney cost Utd 70m each! Shevchenko cost nigh on 80m...
And SWP cost Chelsea over 50m

TPIC-2013-PROPER-V2.jpg


Decent reading overall tbh, even if it's from a scouser
<a class="postlink" href="http://tomkinstimes.com/2014/01/transfer-records-and-why-they-mata/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://tomkinstimes.com/2014/01/transfe ... they-mata/</a>

<a class="postlink" href="http://tomkinstimes.com/2014/08/how-chelsea-ruined-football/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://tomkinstimes.com/2014/08/how-che ... -football/</a>
 

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