Coronavirus (2021) thread

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Sky news, first focussing on Pfizer jab not giving 100% protection after first jab. And lots of talk about the vaccines might not be effective on the variants. Some positive news about the good news on the AZ front but bizarely no mention of the zero hospitalisation of anybody after 22 days after 1 jab. Then deaths and positive cases and then lastly the vaccine numbers. These media organisations just cant help themselves with their negative slant on everything.
 
Perspective:

The AZ phase III data does not have sufficient events in the >65s to judge efficacy in that age group. US, Germany and France are not using it in older patients for that reason. (US have declined to even consider it for any ages pending further data)

The company has proposed bridging to younger patients through a phase II study which shows equivalent immune response across younger and older subjects, rather than direct efficacy. The UK, the EMA (European Regulator), India, and a number of other juristictions have approved it on that basis, although a full phase III dataset would be more normal.

Neither approach is unreasonable, it's a judgement of benefit vs risk. I'm glad the UK have taken the approach they have personally, but I don't think other judgements are necessarily politically motivated.

We will have real-world data in the next 2-3 months which it's unlikely, but possible, will make our decision look wrong in hindsight. Equally, more elderly French, Germans and Americans may die as a result of their conservative decisions on risk.
im glad they havent approved it as it might mean more for us. Its that simple. I trust our scientists.
 
Thanks for the clarification. I thought you meant the priority groups, which is just down to u70s I think.

I think "opening up" to near normal requires something like:

1. Headroom in hospitals in case things go in the wrong direction, and to enable the health service to . Both total COVID beds and ICU COVID beds to a small fraction of what they are now.
2. Very low case load - I'd suggest well down into the hundreds, as it was last summer. That means that if cases start growing, it can be contained without trashing the health service again. Or if the vaccine isn't quite as good as we hope, we can readjust to getting 2nd doses in place.
3. Track and trace up to speed. Again, to keep a lid on any outbreaks, including new variants of concern.
4. Doing it slowly. Primary schools / wait a couple of weeks, Secondary schools/ wait a couple of weeks. Shops, pubs with social distancing, etc until we get a full Etihad in September. If we're lucky, and vaccine passports might be essential for mass gatherings if we haven't got really high vaccine coverage.

All the things we're really missing like pubs, family gatherings, footie, will come faster in the end rather than slower if we keep this controlled.

On "real world" - clinical trials are very closely controlled. Everyone has the jab exactly when they should, eligible people are closely checked, the population often omits the most vulnerable. Just for instance, here whilst the trials did include over 70s, fully half of the deaths in the real world are in over 80s. Will that even older group respond as well? We don't know. Will the 2nd jab make more of a difference for those people? Probably. Most medical treatments show better results in clinical trials where these things are closely controlled than when used with the general public. The emerging Israeli data, for instance, doesn't look quite as good as the trial data (though *very* early to judge, and still very good from what we can see).
hopefully it will be sooner than that. Football stadiums open that is.
 
Perspective:

The AZ phase III data does not have sufficient events in the >65s to judge efficacy in that age group. US, Germany and France are not using it in older patients for that reason. (US have declined to even consider it for any ages pending further data)

The company has proposed bridging to younger patients through a phase II study which shows equivalent immune response across younger and older subjects, rather than direct efficacy. The UK, the EMA (European Regulator), India, and a number of other juristictions have approved it on that basis, although a full phase III dataset would be more normal.

Neither approach is unreasonable, it's a judgement of benefit vs risk. I'm glad the UK have taken the approach they have personally, but I don't think other judgements are necessarily politically motivated.

We will have real-world data in the next 2-3 months which it's unlikely, but possible, will make our decision look wrong in hindsight. Equally, more elderly French, Germans and Americans may die as a result of their conservative decisions on risk.
I take on board and agree with what you say about but unlike his German and Swedish counterparts he announced that the vaccine from AZ was 'quasi ineffective' and then went on to say in the same press briefing "I don't have any data, and I don't have a scientific team of my own to look at the numbers,". But he knew he'd given enough to the global media put the spotlight back on AZ with that soundbite and stop the press tearing him a new one for his horizontal vaccine launch -

I bet my bottom dollar that the bulls up in procurement by the EU was in part driven by him hoping to showcase Sanofi as the great saviour of Europe.

Gutted when any vaccine doesn't make it as we are going to need a shed load for this project, so I take no pleasure in Sanofi/GSK not coming through with theirs. Hopefully with SAN/GSK and Novartis offering up their production sites for those vaccines that have made it past the regulators already we can all start ramping up production in Q2.
 
50 people all fined for attending a house party on Bristol.

I'm not sure what the answer is, but these Fuckwits don't give a shit about the lives of others and fines don't seem to be a strong enough deterrent
 
I take on board and agree with what you say about but unlike his German and Swedish counterparts he announced that the vaccine from AZ was 'quasi ineffective' and then went on to say in the same press briefing "I don't have any data, and I don't have a scientific team of my own to look at the numbers,". But he knew he'd given enough to the global media put the spotlight back on AZ with that soundbite and stop the press tearing him a new one for his horizontal vaccine launch -

I bet my bottom dollar that the bulls up in procurement by the EU was in part driven by him hoping to showcase Sanofi as the great saviour of Europe.

Gutted when any vaccine doesn't make it as we are going to need a shed load for this project, so I take no pleasure in Sanofi/GSK not coming through with theirs. Hopefully with SAN/GSK and Novartis offering up their production sites for those vaccines that have made it past the regulators already we can all start ramping up production in Q2.
Micron est plein du merde..
 
Sky news, first focussing on Pfizer jab not giving 100% protection after first jab. And lots of talk about the vaccines might not be effective on the variants. Some positive news about the good news on the AZ front but bizarely no mention of the zero hospitalisation of anybody after 22 days after 1 jab. Then deaths and positive cases and then lastly the vaccine numbers. These media organisations just cant help themselves with their negative slant on everything.
No. They cant. Which is why i dont bother
 
Numb arm you say? Can you choose which arm?

Asking for a friend
Not too sure if it matters as it goes deep inside the muscle. I would imagine it to be numb regardless of the site chosen owing to trauma caused. A tablet or capsule would be less stressful all round. Maybe they could perfect the sugar lump vehicle of protection as they did with Polio and simply post the cubes out by post. Anyway she said it was only dead for a few hours, with no mither after.
 
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England Hospital Data last 24 hours

Some more good news.

Patients down 1142 to 27, 397 - lowest in 4 weeks.

Ventilators down 90 to 3324 - lowest in 3 weeks.

Regionally:-

Every single region has fewer patients than yesterday.

East down 325 to 3060

London 158 to 5723

Midlands 120 to 5383

NE & Yorkshire 94 to 3402

North West 163 to 3854

South East 201 to 4143

South West 81 to 1832


Ventilators mostly down too

East down 37 to 292

London down 15 to 1075

Midlands up 5 to 622

NE & Yorkshire up 2 to 319

North West down 3 to 367

South East down 15 to 455

South West up 3 to 184
 
50 people all fined for attending a house party on Bristol.

I'm not sure what the answer is, but these Fuckwits don't give a shit about the lives of others and fines don't seem to be a strong enough deterrent
Always going to happen on occasion for a number of reasons.

Just like sociopaths are pathological liars , some have a tendency not to take the advice of those in positions of authority and buck health advice.
 
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