Coronavirus (2021) thread

[AlgarveBlu]

France is restricting the AZ Oxford vaccine to under 65's.

Covid: France restricts AstraZeneca vaccine to under-65s

It is the latest EU country to limit use of the jab citing lack of efficacy data for elderly people.

www.bbc.co.uk

Looks like his Sanofi vaccine swill be restricted to just Macron then -deffo politically motivated that one - he does come across as a bitter little tit

 

[Gabriel]

France is restricting the AZ Oxford vaccine to under 65's.

Covid: France restricts AstraZeneca vaccine to under-65s

It is the latest EU country to limit use of the jab citing lack of efficacy data for elderly people.

www.bbc.co.uk

I think there's a feeling in certain EU capitals that it would be more prudent to follow Israel and use the Pfizer vaccine on the older population; of course, it's also prudent to advertise that you're not intending to use the AZ vaccine on that population when you don't actually have stocks of it...

 

[richards30]

Cheers. One of my daughter's Uni mates is from IoM and I was wondering when travel restrictions might be lifted.

no time soon it seems mate. Talk of not even this year depending on how things go in the Uk!

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

Well, I did give you two specific reasons, but you've just ignored them.

Here they are again.

So, if we open up too soon, the virus will sweep through U70s in no time and we'll be locked down again.

Plus, if we have a major wave with the country having mainly one vaccination not two we create perfect conditions for immune escape mutations.

But there is nuance here, of course - I'm not sure how you define "risk groups", "done" and "open up". Who knows, we may even agree with one another!

The AZ study today is very much in line with expectations - but note that real world results are often less impressive than clinical trials, and many of the vulnerable are much older than in that study, so may not respond so well, particularly to 1st dose.

when did i say we should open up too soon.? I said actually exactly the opposite. Ie 22 days after all the at risk groups down to say 50 or 55s which will be end of March have had their first jab.

You clearly have a scientific background in this field, The AZ results are what they are. No hospital admissions after 22days of a first dose. Surely they were done in the real world, If not where were they done? Not sure what you mean by that statement.

Hospital admissions should then be very low after 55s have been vaccinated and manageable.

Opening things up then makes perfect sense.

 

[roubaixtuesday]

Looks like his Sanofi vaccine swill be restricted to just Macron then -deffo politically motivated that one - he does come across as a bitter little tit

Perspective:

The AZ phase III data does not have sufficient events in the >65s to judge efficacy in that age group. US, Germany and France are not using it in older patients for that reason. (US have declined to even consider it for any ages pending further data)

The company has proposed bridging to younger patients through a phase II study which shows equivalent immune response across younger and older subjects, rather than direct efficacy. The UK, the EMA (European Regulator), India, and a number of other juristictions have approved it on that basis, although a full phase III dataset would be more normal.

Neither approach is unreasonable, it's a judgement of benefit vs risk. I'm glad the UK have taken the approach they have personally, but I don't think other judgements are necessarily politically motivated.

We will have real-world data in the next 2-3 months which it's unlikely, but possible, will make our decision look wrong in hindsight. Equally, more elderly French, Germans and Americans may die as a result of their conservative decisions on risk.

 

[sir baconface]

it means you don't know what this means.

What a surprise when you go to such trouble to put a cogent case.

 

[twosips]

 

[PannickAtTheDisco]

Perspective:

The AZ phase III data does not have sufficient events in the >65s to judge efficacy in that age group. US, Germany and France are not using it in older patients for that reason. (US have declined to even consider it for any ages pending further data)

The company has proposed bridging to younger patients through a phase II study which shows equivalent immune response across younger and older subjects, rather than direct efficacy. The UK, the EMA (European Regulator), India, and a number of other juristictions have approved it on that basis, although a full phase III dataset would be more normal.

Neither approach is unreasonable, it's a judgement of benefit vs risk. I'm glad the UK have taken the approach they have personally, but I don't think other judgements are necessarily politically motivated.

We will have real-world data in the next 2-3 months which it's unlikely, but possible, will make our decision look wrong in hindsight. Equally, more elderly French, Germans and Americans may die as a result of their conservative decisions on risk.

at the end of the day, we had a choice of try giving them a vaccine and hope it works or be resigned to many of them dying anyway given the wave of the new variant. So worth the risk regardless of the outcome imo. As many as possible have been given the Pfizer stocks we have available so we've done what we can.

 

[mancity1]

What a surprise when you go to such trouble to put a cogent case.

Always happy to oblige Sir.

 

[mancity1]

And you've been wrong "form" the outset.

Apologies for the typo but, what would you do to minimise spread?