Coronavirus (2021) thread

[unicorn]

Yeah im very curious, because as lay-mans we see that stuff about only ONE infection being used as efficacy proof and it's hardly our fault to get 'eh?!' is it? I'm sure we'll hear more as this story develops though - it's too noisy to not play out publicly.

Perhaps we might expect our well-paid media to have asked about what the trials said about efficacy for over-65s a month ago when AZ was approved, rather than waste questions at press conferences with endless "Should you have done something else/will you tell us what you've just said you won't/Gotcha !" efforts.

 

[ayrshire_blue]

Very quick comment on the German over 65s story.

1. Not a surprise, and same approach taken by FDA in the US (actually FDA more stringent still and haven't approved in younger people either yet).

2. Problem is NOT that efficacy shown to be low but that insufficient older people in the dataset to show either way. Additional trial is being run to address the data gap.

3. Not a concern scientifically: the UK justification was
(i) Good efficacy shown in other age groups
(ii) Excellent immune response measured in older people, equivalent to that in younger, and as good (actually better IIRC) than Pfizer. Efficacy comes from immune response.

MHRA and several other authorities worldwide believe this shows sufficient benefit/ risk to approve. EMA/FDA require formal efficacy data.

Regulatory agencies taking different views on this sort of issue is not unusual.

Main issue is communication for people elsewhere taking the jab, not the decision itself.

My parents are due for vaccination today, based on all of this I'm delighted whichever they get.

Clearly I'm not the only one who's missed your input on this thread over the past couple of days. Thanks again for summarising this in such simple terms to understand. Good post, cheers.

 

[The Stockport Iniesta]

There's a fascinating article in the BMJ titled, "how the Oxford-Astrazeneca Covid-19 vaccine was made"

Unfortunately I can't link using this browser, perhaps someone would be kind enough to do it, if it hasn't already been shared.

It really is a good read.

 

[Healdplace]

England hospital deaths :- 3 wks v 2 wks v last wk v Today.

661 / 49 NW / 7%

884 / 80 NW / 9%

789 / 99 NW / 12.5%

907 / 121 NW / 13.3% Today

Hopefully worrying over nothing and just the catch up days - but that NW upward trajectory in percentages is starting to look a bit of a concern.

Though in many ways inevitable as NW cases rose after the south and as they are falling faster now in the south and deaths not as high the NW will likely be the last place where this shifts too unfortunately - creating an increase in percentage until they do.

 

[Deleted member 77198]

Once we started equating vaccination speed numbers to a dick measuring contest, this was always going to happen.

Noses are out of joint.

Fuck 'em. We crack on. Nobody should doubt the excellence of our Oxford-based scientists, the Astra Zeneca vaccine is just the job.

My cynical self also suggests the AZ negativity has really ramped up in the last few weeks, nothing to do at all with it also being the cheapest available to buy to much poorer countries...

Noses well and truly out of joint.

Many cats will have been kicked over this elsewhere, where they will have been looking at profit margins, with AZ doing this with profit well down the list of reasons of importance.

 

[Deleted member 77198]

There's a fascinating article in the BMJ titled, "how the Oxford-Astrazeneca Covid-19 vaccine was made"

Unfortunately I can't link using this browser, perhaps someone would be kind enough to do it, if it hasn't already been shared.

It really is a good read.

How the Oxford-AstraZeneca covid-19 vaccine was made

Andrew Pollard has been leading the Oxford vaccine clinical trials in the UK, Brazil, and South Africa. He tells Elisabeth Mahase how the Oxford vaccine came to be, how dosing was worked out, and whether it will stand up to the new variants Andrew Pollard was in a French taxi when he realised...

www.bmj.com

Andrew Pollard has been leading the Oxford vaccine clinical trials in the UK, Brazil, and South Africa. He tells [B]Elisabeth Mahase[/B] how the Oxford vaccine came to be, how dosing was worked out, and whether it will stand up to the new variants

 

[MillionMilesAway]

@rammyblue well you didn't have to wait long for that bad news :-(

Not good if this is true as this opens up a can of worms for the government and people that have already taken AZ over 65. Hopefully this situation can be managed properly and not turned into a UK v EU battle by the media - need that shit like a hole in the head at the moment - let the scientists argue their cases...

I agree - I don't understand why anyone without an ulterior motive would try to make this EU-UK.

German regulators can do what they see fit, just as every country can. It seems strange, but they must have a good reason to do so.

 

[The Stockport Iniesta]

How the Oxford-AstraZeneca covid-19 vaccine was made

Andrew Pollard has been leading the Oxford vaccine clinical trials in the UK, Brazil, and South Africa. He tells Elisabeth Mahase how the Oxford vaccine came to be, how dosing was worked out, and whether it will stand up to the new variants Andrew Pollard was in a French taxi when he realised...

www.bmj.com

Andrew Pollard has been leading the Oxford vaccine clinical trials in the UK, Brazil, and South Africa. He tells [B]Elisabeth Mahase[/B] how the Oxford vaccine came to be, how dosing was worked out, and whether it will stand up to the new variants

Thank you mate.

 

[hammocity]

This has bypassed me completely, never even heard of this one? Also, have we not ordered some of the Johnson & Johnson vaccine, which I believe is nearly approved?

I heard a scientist on Radio 5 speaking to Tony Livsey, he actually said about the formula for the Covid vaccines, it's not "rocket science" to produce it. Tony asked him it could be produced by none medical companies, the scientists said after approval it could be, the only caveat being private companies will want a profit from it. I'm sure there's plenty that would pay privately every year if necessary, that would ease the burden on the NHS delivery for those less fortunate. The Pneumonia jab currently costs around £30 at Cohen's chemists, I'll gladly pay that after this initial roll out is complete.

 

[MillionMilesAway]

That was known was it not, from previous discussions in here?

There is a difference between no proof of good efficacy and no evidence of lower or no efficacy. But that will not be understood widely.

I assume our authorities who approved it did so not under duress but on the basis of balance of risk.

But they need to speak out now as their judgement is effectively being called dangerously suspect.

Doubtless another press conference is looming.

I wasn't aware of there being a small sample for the MHRA.

I think you're right, and that the MHRA/JCVI will likely have something organised rapidly. What it then needs is rational reporting, preferably by someone who knows how regulation works (I don't, for one).