What's your best guess for the numbers to fall significantly?
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Coronavirus (2021) thread
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BlueAnorak
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Oh I know the UK will vaccinate those at risk dare more quickly than the EU.As the EU can't do anything that Germany doesn't agree to, then what the fuck is the EU's problem with Astrazeneca?
Not at all odd. They need a scapegoat for the EU's disastrous vaccine policy.It is obviously a risk assessment argument and the two countries have reached different conclusions. But it undermines confidence in AZ as a product and doing this hardly helps persuade the company to be helpful to the EU. Why should it go all out to assist a place that is in effect telling the world their vaccine is not safe enough to use it on the 90% of the population who most need it? Not without more tests presumably.
It is a very odd move by Germany who could have just delayed the decision until the dispute was resolved. Not in effect make the party you are disputing with about as disinclined as the could be to cooperate.
They also claim there isn't enough data to approve the vaccine for over 65s
Which of course is the whole purpose due to the EU squabbling with Astrazenica.Ayrshire I agree that this seriously needs urgent action now as I suspect plenty of people who have had the AZ over 65 (which will be millions in the UK already) are going to demand the 'safe' one - which cannot happen as we have limited stocks.
God help us if someone who had the AZ vaccine dies of Covid as some lawyer will be on it like a hawk suing for millions anyone from AZ to Boris.
This could impact badly on the UK vaccination programme.
Emergency use is emergency use.
World wars, World Cup and Covid vaccinations aggregate score:Germany.
UK and England 4 Germany 0
I'm not big on little Britain but Germany is trying to be a smart arse.
A lot of this chatter comes from the large clinical trials that took place in Brazil etc. What's maybe been missed is the initial trials before that which considered the safety profile and antibody response (but not efficacy).Very quick comment on the German over 65s story.
1. Not a surprise, and same approach taken by FDA in the US (actually FDA more stringent still and haven't approved in younger people either yet).
2. Problem is NOT that efficacy shown to be low but that insufficient older people in the dataset to show either way. Additional trial is being run to address the data gap.
3. Not a concern scientifically: the UK justification was
(i) Good efficacy shown in other age groups
(ii) Excellent immune response measured in older people, equivalent to that in younger, and as good (actually better IIRC) than Pfizer. Efficacy comes from immune response.
MHRA and several other authorities worldwide believe this shows sufficient benefit/ risk to approve. EMA/FDA require formal efficacy data.
Regulatory agencies taking different views on this sort of issue is not unusual.
Main issue is communication for people elsewhere taking the jab, not the decision itself.
My parents are due for vaccination today, based on all of this I'm delighted whichever they get.
These trials showed the AZ vaccine had a good safety profile and generated a very similar immune response throughout all age groups (the older age groups were actually larger than the others). In the following trials if you didn't test efficacy in a group then you could at risk in effect transpose the results you do have into a kind of assumed efficacy and that is the basis of the MHRA approval.
In the absence of data it's wrong to say efficacy is worse but it is perhaps right to say that efficacy is still unproven but only because it isn't written on a piece of paper. The UK approach is based upon risk and whilst there is no safety profile risk they've still essentially trusted the science. I wouldn't even regard it as a gamble but unfortunately what's happening is a result of a limitation of the wider trials rather than any detrimental outcome.
In my experience Germans value things like process very highly compared to things like outcomes. The Americans are also very tetchy about anything foreign where certainly things like process then become far more important. This is almost just politics at play really but I wouldn't be worried at all about any of the vaccines, there is nothing there to suggest we need to worry.
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BobKowalski
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...
Not at all odd. They need a scapegoat for the EU's disastrous vaccine policy.
They also claim there isn't enough data to approve the vaccine for over 65s
There isn’t. We know this. The US and South Korea have said the same. The data on the over 65’s simply isn’t there.
It doesn’t mean the vaccine won‘t work, but the data is the data and it is AZ’s duty to run a trial that produces that data.
Kirkstall Blue
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Ive just had the Oxford vaccine and my other half got the fizer, it was at the Rugby ground with hundreds of other people, lots of nurses doing the injections which don’t hurt.
The queue was huge right round the ground, but it’s moving real quick. It didn’t take long and last of all the doctor was on hand just in case. Fantastic
The queue was huge right round the ground, but it’s moving real quick. It didn’t take long and last of all the doctor was on hand just in case. Fantastic
Big hats off to all the staff including the volunteers, some of them working in the drive throughs doing an 8 hour shift in dark, cold, rainy conditions.Ive just had the Oxford vaccine and my other half got the fizer, it was at the Rugby ground with hundreds of other people, lots of nurses doing the injections which don’t hurt.
The queue was huge right round the ground, but it’s moving real quick. It didn’t take long and last of all the doctor was on hand just in case. Fantastic
Great. I read reports this morning that they are starting on > 65 now.Ive just had the Oxford vaccine and my other half got the fizer, it was at the Rugby ground with hundreds of other people, lots of nurses doing the injections which don’t hurt.
The queue was huge right round the ground, but it’s moving real quick. It didn’t take long and last of all the doctor was on hand just in case. Fantastic
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