COVID-19 — Coronavirus

[inchy14]

Thanks for posting the summary Kaz.

NIck Hancock was on This Morning earlier and confirmed Boris is doing a conference tomorrow to give the decision on action. Though he said the decision has not been signed off yet from what he said it has been agreed in essentials and will not be a full national lockdown. Schools will stay open. But pubs may at a minimum be restricted.

No point restricting them at all, either open or shut as the people who are going to use them will cram in during the opened hours anyway!!

 

[kaz7]

No point restricting them at all, either open or shut as the people who are going to use them will cram in during the opened hours anyway!!

I think they can go back to take away like they did before,they can still trade, not ideal but at least they are taking in money

 

[cleavers]

Like many you miss the whole point on masks and visors. It's not to protect you it's to protect others.

I absolutely don't, and if you read my post I state why it's not protecting others. People do wear them because they think they are protected, but these perspex shields do nothing for anyone at all, because air is free to move in and out, from the side or below, they offer nobody any protection, the wearer nor the vulnerable if the wearer carries it.

 

[kaz7]

Thanks for posting the summary Kaz.

NIck Hancock was on This Morning earlier and confirmed Boris is doing a conference tomorrow to give the decision on action. Though he said the decision has not been signed off yet from what he said it has been agreed in essentials and will not be a full national lockdown. Schools will stay open. But pubs may at a minimum be restricted.

i probably didn't catch it all or enough detail so feel free to add

 

[cleavers]

About time we had the scientists speak without the politicians, these sort of updates should have been weekly all the way through this, to keep it at the forefront of the public's thinking, it needs hammering home how quickly this can take off.

 

[Healdplace]

Hancock earlier also claimed they did a record number of tests yesterday - almost a quarter of a million.

If they know these numbers then why have they deliberately stopped letting the public know them daily and just release them once a week in a pandemic they admit has been doubling in size each of those weeks.

I am all for supporting this government but it is the way they control the data to suit their own ends that annoys me.

As you have seen most of what the scientists said today was obvious to anyone reading and studying the data. But 99% of the country does not have the time or awareress to hunt for it hour after hour.

These briefings now should be regular not just when they want to make some lecturing point.

And the data needs clearer daily release. Not hidden like they have with the number of tests. So we can see the % number that all nations but England release daily.

I have been saying this about the tests for weeks now in here before we even knew there was a problem with the testing. So its not some retrospective judgement. And when you see the problems they were having over testing before that went public you have to think they did this on purpose to hide the news.

Maybe they did not but stupid moves like this imply otherwise and breed suspicion.

Too many political games are being played and a football forum should not be the best way to see the data posted by someone with no expertise like myself. That is the most absurd thing of all. Because it is avoidable if they treated people like adults all the time. Not just when they want the sheep to go back into the pen.

 

[Healdplace]

i probably didn't catch it all or enough detail so feel free to add

No you covered it very well.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

I think its a pity they only concentrated on emphasising the worst case scanarios in Europe ie France and Spain. No presentation or explanation of the lower rates of infection and deaths in Sweden, Italy or Germany or any discussion on herd immunity.

 

[inbetween]

I absolutely don't, and if you read my post I state why it's not protecting others. People do wear them because they think they are protected, but these perspex shields do nothing for anyone at all, because air is free to move in and out, from the side or below, they offer nobody any protection, the wearer nor the vulnerable if the wearer carries it.

People don't realise this but masks and shields are there to prevent you from spreading the virus to someone else and not the other way round.

Masks provide no protection from the air you breathe and neither do shields. They do however stop you from sneezing or coughing and sending the virus far into the air which is why it's pointless if most people don't wear them.

The only way to protect yourself from the virus in the air is to wear healthcare grade PPE (filtered masks or respirators).

 

[bluejon]

Just a quick one: considering the number of people they are testing there is exactly no chance that there can be any certainty whatsoever in what Chris Whitty has said below. They can guess, which is what they are doing, but they are essentially picking a number out of thin air and presenting it as scientific truth. For those with a knowledge of maths, the key number here is not the predicted infections, it's the standard error on the predicted infections, which will be enormous due to the small number of tests.

Citing the ONS, study he said that it was now estimated that roughly 70,000 in the UK have a Covid infection and around 6,000 a day are getting the infection.

 

[Cityzen_89]

So this 50,000 cases a day by October "prediction" must mean they are going to start testing more then?

 

[crooky]

I think its a pity they only concentrated on emphasising the worst case scanarios in Europe ie France and Spain. No presentation or explanation of the lower rates of infection and deaths in Sweden, Italy or Germany or any discussion on herd immunity.

That would be 'mixed' messaging though. They need to layout the reasons for the new restrictions coming in and having examples of good news from counties like Italy, Sweden etc would be off message as such.

Most people don't realise that cases are going up as fast as they are so that's the main message they needed to get across and I think they did that well.

Once more people understand what's going on, the easier it is for the politicians to say what restrictions are coming in and with some hope people actually following them to a large degree.

 

[Healdplace]

I think its a pity they only concentrated on emphasising the worst case scanarios in Europe ie France and Spain. No presentation or explanation of the lower rates of infection and deaths in Sweden, Italy or Germany or any discussion on herd immunity.

From the parade of scientists on the BBC since the briefing it is seemingly because they all think the point was to prove today there is no virus weakening and kill off the quest for herd immunity that might inspire less desire to stick to rules on the basis of thinking I might as well catch it and get it over with.

There is a risk of some thinking - catch it now and become immune and then have a great party season.

If 8% in the UK and up to 17% in London are true numbers as cited by them it is nowhere near enough to do more than maybe slow increases in London a bit in a way the data has suggested. The % in Bolton must be as high as it can get now and as yet its not slowing.

True or not this message is clearly what the scientists advising the government believe.
.

 

[cleavers]

People don't realise this but masks and shields are there to prevent you from spreading the virus to someone else and not the other way round.

Masks provide no protection from the air you breathe and neither do shields. They do however stop you from sneezing or coughing and sending the virus far into the air which is why it's pointless if most people don't wear them.

The only way to protect yourself from the virus in the air is to wear healthcare grade PPE (filtered masks or respirators).

I KNOW what they do, it's not me that needs educating, the fact is, and the only thing I commented on, is that the plastic face shield is a complete and utter waste time for EVERYBODY regardless of why people think they are wearing them.

 

[Tim of the Oak]

Makes sense. Thought they'd might at least be the next act on...

Nothing new really there.

TLDR - Rates are going up and will reach unmanageable levels by November if we don't do anything.

I thought it was interesting that Whitt’s and Vallance didn’t seem to mention test and trace as part of the answer (unless I missed that bit). They probably wanted to avoid that without throwing another problem into the mix.

 

[cleavers]

If they know these numbers then why have they deliberately stopped letting the public know them daily and just release them once a week in a pandemic they admit has been doubling in size each of those weeks.

I thought they have been updating the numbers daily in last week or so, they seem to be running about 3 days behind so latest is 18th.

 

[kaz7]

About time we had the scientists speak without the politicians, these sort of updates should have been weekly all the way through this, to keep it at the forefront of the public's thinking, it needs hammering home how quickly this can take off.

The worst thing that happened was the gagging of the scientists in favour of backing cummings ,the scientists were clear!y not happy ,i think when we look back that will be the turning point for lack of clarity and information and some erosion of public compliance , we now need to hear from the scientists regularly and the gov needs to follow their advice ,winter is a dangerous time and we need proper clear and calm. People delivering the messages

 

[cleavers]

So this 50,000 cases a day by October "prediction" must mean they are going to start testing more then?

It wasn't a "prediction", it was a worst case if we do nothing.

 

[Healdplace]

I thought they have been updating the numbers daily in last week or so, they seem to be running about 3 days behind so latest is 18th.

They publish them once a week for the past 7 days not daily as they used to do. Unless they change it there will not be another update until the end of this week. Certainly on Gov.Uk.

 

[kaz7]

I think its a pity they only concentrated on emphasising the worst case scanarios in Europe ie France and Spain. No presentation or explanation of the lower rates of infection and deaths in Sweden, Italy or Germany or any discussion on herd immunity.

Because we are three weeks behind them as we have been from the start ,we only need what will happen here,what is going on in other countries doesn't matter, the message today had to be clear on what we have to do,herd immunity was scrapped or not mentioned as soon as we had large numbers dying , 8% of the population have antibodies ,you need 60% + to get herd immunity