D-Day - Student Protests in London, 09/12/10

[bluemanc]

some of the more lurid posts wishing death and violence on students seem to be from. those who did not attend university.It would balance the debate if we heard from those whose career demanded a degree,and went on to be successful because of obtaining one.In other words backing a university education.Merchant bankers and tax evaders excepted of course,

My job does indeed require a degree, specifically a PhD in history, and without it I wouldn't have gotten a sniff. I was very lucky, in that my PhD was supported by the government-funded Arts and Humanities Research Council, which now faces the prospect of seeing its own funding getting annihilated (ditto the Economic and Social Research Council). Without that support, there would simply have been no way to afford it.

In the year since I finished said PhD, finding work has been a struggle and I've gotten by through jobbing bits of research for others. Several interviews later, I was lucky enough to be employed at UCL, working with a great bunch of folk on a fantastic project, and earning a decent wage.

In the personal sense, a university education has gotten me a good job with decent prospects of progression, doing something I love. There's a distinct thrill in seeing your work published, and others citing it critically in their own. However, the intellectual stimulation it provides in itself shouldn't be underestimated - an educated nation is a successful nation, and reducing an education to a service or a commodity is, to my mind, extremely short-sighted.

(It also got me an all-expenses paid trip to Australia during the summer, but that's another story!)

A word of warning to those thinking about becoming an academic (in the humanities, at least) - prepare yourself for a life of pimping yourself out to funding bodies for research cash, and a rather limited pool of jobs.

EDIT: I should also add, I'm very glad I've already finished my undergrad degree. Coming from a low-income family, I took the full loan amount (plus a 24-hour a week job) to get me through that and my master's. I now owe the Student Loan Company about £18,000, and the prospect of that having another £10k whacked on top is pretty unpleasant.

Tbh i find that disgusting,my generation always held the belief that we worked hard & paid taxes to give our children a chance to further themselves & possibly go to college or university,that you actually had to get into £18k of debt funding your own education is fuckin shocking.
I give in.

 

[Balti]

The argument of many is that this is basically a tax on those that go on to be high earners. 27K is often mentioned. Many such qualifications are far longer and therefore the debt will be far greater.

But in any case this is not fair as it will not apply in scotland/ wales where it will be free/ subsidised. No protests in Edinburgh or Cardiff......that in itself is cause enough for mass protest in England imo. If I was their age I would protest too

All this ill-thought policy will do is to encourage a brain drain for the new generation.

I can see the need for the policy but a gradual increase would have probably resulted in no protests and those professions which are viotal to society such as those in medicine should in any case be ring-fenced imo

 

[Ancient Citizen]

He doesnt need to find it - thats the thing. It is not paid up front. You do not need affluent parents.

I don't see how it means someone from a poorer background wont seek to better themselves. So someone from a poor background, who is obviously talented enough to go to uni to consider it will decide not to be a doctor earning £60k a year because of a £27k debt over 30 years? I doubt it will put them of to be honest as they will never have to "find" that money - it is always based on earnings.

Seems quite reasonable to me.

And to me. I can't see a gifted but poor kid who has the ambition to be a doctor/architect/engineer etc; being put off by having to pay back 20 odd grand or so if he knows he is going to earn £60-£100k in the future. Someone who intends going to Uni for an easy life may well do though.

 

[m27]

some of the more lurid posts wishing death and violence on students seem to be from. those who did not attend university.It would balance the debate if we heard from those whose career demanded a degree,and went on to be successful because of obtaining one.In other words backing a university education.Merchant bankers and tax evaders excepted of course,

I need a degree for my work and I graduated in 1999 after having my fees paid for the four years of my Masters Degree by Salford Council. I also received a grant from the Council.

So much has changed in just over a decade.<br /><br />-- Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:39 pm --<br /><br />

Seems quite reasonable to me.

And to me. I can't see a gifted but poor kid who has the ambition to be a doctor/architect/engineer etc; being put off by having to pay back 20 odd grand or so if he knows he is going to earn £60-£100k in the future. Someone who intends going to Uni for an easy life may well do though.

Is it really that simplistic?

You are 18 and have belief in your abilities but £20k+ of debt when you have never been saddled with debt before is rather daunting. You also cannot guarantee anything in terms of a future wage.

It's not a business investment and loads WILL be put off.

 

[johnmc]

Is it really that simplistic?

You are 18 and have belief in your abilities but £20k+ of debt when you have never been saddled with debt before is rather daunting. You also cannot guarantee anything in terms of a future wage.

It's not a business investment and loads WILL be put off.

Yes - it is not a debt in the true sense of the word - it is not pay £27k back or else. It is if you earn enough you pay a percentage back, the more you earn the more you pay back. It is not the same as taking out a loan that needs to be paid back within a certain timescale and it will not show in your bank as -£27k.

If you can't guarantee a higher future wage you can guarantee that you will pay a smaller percentage.

 

[Bluemoon115]

You know what, fuck it. You're all absolutely right.

The government were 100% correct in their decision with education cuts. You're all gonna see a huge benefit from this decision, and what's more, everyone within the working generation correctly supports this decision.

Ha! We're gonna see so much hypocrisy over the next three months. Not that the amount already seen hasn't been chuckle-worthy.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Nothing has to be paid back if you are unemployed, or having a child, lose your job, or don't earn over £21000. As stated on here, this is not like you have borrowed £27k and are in the shit if you lose everything, it is only repaid out of earnings over this on a sliding scale.

 

[Scottyboi]

And people give the edl and uaf shit.................. fucking disusting that picture of Churchill's statue. My grandad will turning over in his grave. He would of bren gunned the lot of them.

 

[M18CTID]

Nothing has to be paid back if you are unemployed, or having a child, lose your job, or don't earn over £21000. As stated on here, this is not like you have borrowed £27k and are in the shit if you lose everything, it is only repaid out of earnings over this on a sliding scale.

Indeed. Sounds fair enough to me. Many moons ago I passed an entry exam for grammar school but my parents couldn't afford to pay the fees, so I ended up not going. I don't recall anyone taking to the streets and protesting about that. The harsh reality is that you can either afford it or you can't.

What doesn't seem fair is that the Scots and Welsh get their tuition fees paid for.

 

[Ronnie the Rep]

that's not true. Long term wages do go up and standards of living improve. a mortgage for £100K taken out 20 years ago was a real big deal and now it's not

the new for-profit loans are inflation plus 3%. Up to the financial melt-down and back to the 70's wages have broadly risen as you say,but the next forty years imo will be very different.In the past when jobs were plentiful,employers were competing for workers,T's and C's reflected this,decent pensions etc.Those times will never return(short of war or epidemic) again in my opinion,there is neither the will or talent to be anything but a nation reliant on 'financial services'.Long term ,when wages in India and China overtake ours ,then it may be that we could be the new Taiwan or Hongkong.

you might be right mate, we don't know what is going to happen in the next thirty years or so but if you are right and wages stay low then the students won't have to pay it back anyway