Dawn Butler MP

[Pedestrian]

Pretty maningless in the end. What she should have done is refuse to leave the chamber when challenged by the speaker.

The tradition that MPs don't call each other liars is grounded in the tradition that MPs don't lie at the dispatch box. When one goes out the window the other goes as well.

Not really. It’s amplified the ‘Johnson is a liar’ rhetoric so we’ll worth it imo.

 

[manchester blue]

Is it on a scale of WMD? Maybe. Truth is all parties will tell you what they want you to hear. This one is no different. There was no credible alternative at the election. There won't be at the next one either. Name calling, 'Scum' and 'Liar', is not the way I want to see politics go. If it is allowed it becomes nothing but a playground and it's not so far from that already at times. The rules are there for a reason.

The country deserves a better opposition. Starmer just doesn't cut it and as for Raynor what does she do? Starmer obviously doesn't rate her, for good reason, and wanted her out, but he's stuck with her because of Labour voting rules. She not an upgrade on Abbott and that says a lot.

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

Is it on a scale of WMD? Maybe. Truth is all parties will tell you what they want you to hear. This one is no different. There was no credible alternative at the election. There won't be at the next one either. Name calling, 'Scum' and 'Liar', is not the way I want to see politics go. If it is allowed it becomes nothing but a playground and it's not so far from that already at times. The rules are there for a reason.

The country deserves a better opposition. Starmer just doesn't cut it and as for Raynor what does she do? Starmer obviously doesn't rate her, for good reason, and wanted her out, but he's stuck with her because of Labour voting rules. She not an upgrade on Abbott and that says a lot.

His lead advisor and campaign manager wanted to replace him days after the election victory. To repeatedly state there was no credible alternative is now farcical.

 

[manchester blue]

His lead advisor and campaign manager wanted to replace him days after the election victory. To repeatedly state there was no credible alternative is now farcical.

Did you believe he drove to Barnard Castle to test his eyesight as well?

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

Did you believe he drove to Barnard Castle to test his eyesight as well?

Ah so you believe the Great White Mop and Princess Nut Nut?

Chuck em a few quid next time they want to do some renovations, maybe we could get them some gold taps in their bathroom.

 

[carlosthejackal]

MP calls out PM for being a liar, which is factually correct , people criticise MP for speaking the truth , what a country we’ve become .

 

[SilverFox2]

Saying that this government is just as dishonest as all their predecessors is as ridiculous as saying that all previous US presidents were as dishonest as Trump.

It's a position that you can only take if you are, deliberately or otherwise, ignorant of the facts.

My perhaps naive observation is that the Mr Trump example has been responsible for Boris and Cummins adapting the barefaced lie approach more associated with Mr Putin than western governments.

The result is I question every statement from Downing Street wondering what sins of omission or spin it conceals.

Sad really that I have totally lost any respect for political figures and feel as though perhaps my admiration for individuals or even political parties of yesteryear was a con trick that today's leaders are indifferent to.

 

[jma]

Is it on a scale of WMD? Maybe. Truth is all parties will tell you what they want you to hear. This one is no different. There was no credible alternative at the election. There won't be at the next one either. Name calling, 'Scum' and 'Liar', is not the way I want to see politics go. If it is allowed it becomes nothing but a playground and it's not so far from that already at times. The rules are there for a reason.

The country deserves a better opposition. Starmer just doesn't cut it and as for Raynor what does she do? Starmer obviously doesn't rate her, for good reason, and wanted her out, but he's stuck with her because of Labour voting rules. She not an upgrade on Abbott and that says a lot.

It's difficult to say that Johnson has told one big lie that has been as damaging or cost as many lies as Blair's WMD. It was catastrophic.

An honest Covid enquiry might make it less easy to say though and, although I think the Iraq war and WMD lie were abhorrent, you have to remember that there were other forces - American foriegn policy, international espionage - that were also significant factors in leading us down that path.

The difference for me is that Blair's decision/lie cost lives and whether he should have had the moral courage to go against America (I think he should) is something that should torment him. I suspect many British PMs, if not all, would have come to the same (utterly, morally wrong) decision in the face of American pressure.

For the rest of Blair's premiership, I don't view him as particularly, habitually dishonest and I do think that, like May, Major, Brown and even Thatcher, he had a (potentially misguided - for all of them) sense of doing what is good for thee country and public service.

Johnson's dishonesty is different. It's what he is. It's his core. It's his personality. It's the reason why he has lost almost every iob he has had. It is his day to day life. He has ko sense of public service because he doesn't view the public as anything other than a vehicle to get him in positions to boost his own ego. He is dishonest on a day to day basis and has been.all his life.

It isn't that he had told a lie. As people say, you'll be hard pushed to find a politician that hasn't (and Blair's big lie was a human disaster for millions).

No, it's not that Johnson has told a lie. It's that he is, at his essence, a liar. Not just in his professional life. In everything he does and says.

So, he is comfortable in having complete disregard for the people of the country because doing so is just an extension of how he has behaved all his life.

And that is why this government, under his leadership and stuffed full of others with dubious sense of right/wrong (Patel etc) is utterly more dishonest and corrupt at its core, willing to break with convention and being held to account, than any other we've had.

No one with any sense of what is good for the country, should be happy with that being near power, regardless of the alternatives. An average, less than memorable government is always more preferable to a dishonest one.

 

[jma]

My perhaps naive observation is that the Mr Trump example has been responsible for Boris and Cummins adapting the barefaced lie approach more associated with Mr Putin than western governments.

The result is I question every statement from Downing Street wondering what sins of omission or spin it conceals.

Sad really that I have totally lost any respect for political figures and feel as though perhaps my admiration for individuals or even political parties of yesteryear was a con trick that today's leaders are indifferent to.

I agree with your first two paragraphs.

Regarding the third, I would say that this government is utterly different at its core than any others you may have admired in the past and you shouldn't question that too much.

In fact, when we all start going down the "they are all the same" route, it makes the election of people like Trump and Johnson much more likely. Fostering that attitude is what they rely on to be accepted.

 

[SilverFox2]

I agree with your first two paragraphs.

Regarding the third, I would say that this government is utterly different at its core than any others you may have admired in the past and you shouldn't question that too much.

In fact, when we all start going down the "they are all the same" route, it makes the election of people like Trump and Johnson much more likely. Fostering that attitude is what they rely on to be accepted.

Thanks for reply.
I am of the mind that Covid has brought home to me just how similar political personalities are.
Seems they all went to the same Universities the same apprenticeship in local council and the same understanding that they are promoted to HOC by allowing themselves to be told how to vote.
Where is the diversity of class or background?

If I am honest the real crunch came when my older age group were apparently sacrificed as Covid struck, the start of my fears about political figures.