De Jong

[Squatter]

Does his job well. Don't see why he can't add more to that in terms of occasional attacking threat - he's got the ability to do it. Song at Arsenal has impressed me this season. Not quite as good defensively as De Jong but has notched a couple of good goals.

Think Nige would be better playing that way, rather than the Makelele role almost as a 3rd centre back.

 

[blumoonrisen]

Is there really an arguement about Barry VS de Jong??

To me its clear, just watch the game and you can see what Nigel does on the pitch. It speaks for itslef, Barry is a little past it now I think and should be used sparingly.

Not really, few will argue that Barry is overall better than De Jong. But many will argue it is closer than most contend. At least their production suggest it is. And if that is true, then De Jong is not beyond reproach. These are layered argument and don't end in black and white statements or conclusions.

But the main point of this thread is that De Jong, as loved as he is, is sometimes part of the reason why we are slow moving the ball.

No he isn't... I'd say we've moved it slower while he hasn't been playing.. his passes are fast and decisive, he knows where he's gonna pass the ball before he even wins it.

-- Sat Mar 19, 2011 2:26 am --

Not read any of the previous 15/16 pages on this post,but can't believe this post,best defensive midfielder in the Prem by a country mile,but hey ho,what do I know?

Are you saying he's a better defensive midfielder than anyone in the arse or united squad?

By a mile.. not only the best in the Prem but also the world.. why do you think Holland got to the WC final without hardly conceding..?
I've been watching 'defensive midfielders' before they existed... I can't think of a better one I've seen at City..
He's like a sort of advanced sweeper..! I'd loved to have seen him play if he'd been around years ago, when you was allowed to tackle properly...

 

[Dax777]

Not really, few will argue that Barry is overall better than De Jong. But many will argue it is closer than most contend. At least their production suggest it is. And if that is true, then De Jong is not beyond reproach. These are layered argument and don't end in black and white statements or conclusions.

But the main point of this thread is that De Jong, as loved as he is, is sometimes part of the reason why we are slow moving the ball.

No he isn't... I'd say we've moved it slower while he hasn't been playing.. his passes are fast and decisive, he knows where he's gonna pass the ball before he even wins it.

The above response reeks of bias.
1) we are not talking only about him winning the ball and passing it off. Which in any given game, winning the ball and passing it off, forms a small portion of when he passes. I doubt there is any game in which his winning and then passing off the ball forms more than 30% of times when he actually passes. A sure sign that your recollection is already biased if it focuses strictly on that.

2) The slowness being discussed is not in regard to the speed of his pass, but the speed of the team transitioning from defense to offense. No one doubts that we pass it a lot, often the question is whether we move it at such a slow and disjointed clip, that it affords the opposition time to reform.

3) Whether De Jong's passes are fast and decisive (itself an arguable claim, but even if we assumed it were true) does not affect the claim of a slowed down offense if the passes are made to a disadvantaged teammate. T

4) The claim here is that in the last 2 games De Jong's decisions often didn't foster offense. Wholesale claims such as we passed it slower when he didn't play are often fallacious. And even if they were true, this doesn't absolve him of the claim of moving it slower when he did play. I mean it is possible the chemistry dysfunction caused by his backup makes it even worse than when he doesn't play, but this still doesn't mean he is not slowing the play down. These are not mutually exclusive ideas.
For example, If De Jong is slowing City's play down and he is replaced by ME, it is most likely that the play will slow down even more, yet this doesn't change the fact that De Jong slows the play down!!! It just suggests that I am worse than De Jong. No one has claimed any backup on the bench is better, but it doesn't change the actual claim about what he does.

 

[colinbellsballboy]

Not read any of the previous 15/16 pages on this post,but can't believe this post,best defensive midfielder in the Prem by a country mile,but hey ho,what do I know?

Sometimes the thread is not about what you think it is about. And the opinions contained therein are not simply 2-sided. It is not some for De Jong and others against. It is often more nuanced than that,

Sometimes my answers relate to the OP and not to other persons answers like yours,to me ,that have no football related content.

 

[Dax777]

Sometimes the thread is not about what you think it is about. And the opinions contained therein are not simply 2-sided. It is not some for De Jong and others against. It is often more nuanced than that,

Sometimes my answers relate to the OP and not to other persons answers like yours,to me ,that have no football related content.

Ahh! Touche :)

 

[Mattyc55]

Nigel de Jong is in a different league to Gareth Barry.

 

[blumoonrisen]

No he isn't... I'd say we've moved it slower while he hasn't been playing.. his passes are fast and decisive, he knows where he's gonna pass the ball before he even wins it.

The above response reeks of bias.
1) we are not talking only about him winning the ball and passing it off. Which in any given game, winning the ball and passing it off, forms a small portion of when he passes. I doubt there is any game in which his winning and then passing off the ball forms more than 30% of times when he actually passes. A sure sign that your recollection is already biased if it focuses strictly on that.

2) The slowness being discussed is not in regard to the speed of his pass, but the speed of the team transitioning from defense to offense. No one doubts that we pass it a lot, often the question is whether we move it at such a slow and disjointed clip, that it affords the opposition time to reform.

3) Whether De Jong's passes are fast and decisive (itself an arguable claim, but even if we assumed it were true) does not affect the claim of a slowed down offense if the passes are made to a disadvantaged teammate. T

4) The claim here is that in the last 2 games De Jong's decisions often didn't foster offense. Wholesale claims such as we passed it slower when he didn't play are often fallacious. And even if they were true, this doesn't absolve him of the claim of moving it slower when he did play. I mean it is possible the chemistry dysfunction caused by his backup makes it even worse than when he doesn't play, but this still doesn't mean he is not slowing the play down. These are not mutually exclusive ideas.
For example, If De Jong is slowing City's play down and he is replaced by ME, it is most likely that the play will slow down even more, yet this doesn't change the fact that De Jong slows the play down!!! It just suggests that I am worse than De Jong. No one has claimed any backup on the bench is better, but it doesn't change the actual claim about what he does.

The only chemistry dysfunction is in you... to many class A's. You're waffling on from some mental notebook research thing about the last 2 games, when he's just back from injury...and contradicting yourself in the process.. It's not even worthy of debate, I only bothered to repond cos I was bored.

And as for your fantasy, to see Dejong replaced by you...can I be in it..? I'd be happy to be on the opposition for once..

 

[colinbellsballboy]

Sometimes my answers relate to the OP and not to other persons answers like yours,to me ,that have no football related content.

Ahh! Touche :)

No Probs mate.

 

[Whitterz]

When De Jong plays, we look much more secure as a unit !!

 

[blumoonrisen]

When De Jong plays, we look much more secure as a unit !!

Anyone who watches every game knows that..! its actually a fact.