De Jong

[kinkysdribble]

On SSN today it showed Gareth Bale as 3rd in a stats based list while our very own Vinny Komoany was at no. 5 in the same list, this was a list for the best defenders this season now can someone tell me how often Bale has played as fullback this season cos if points are scored for goals and assists then he's bound to be above Vinny but he's not been operating as a defender and it goes to show stats can give a misleading view to someones input and effectiveness in a match.

 

[Dax777]

De Jong haters. Any comment on that video posted by LoveCity?

Again, I cannot stress enough how such comments miss the point :(

 

[Hamann Pineapple]

Nigel is the fuckin daddy.

 

[Dax777]

So let me get this straight, de Jong slows us down too much. So, with him being out of the side for the last month, we've been lightning fast, direct, attacking machines, yeh? Try again. For the month he's been out we've been just as slow, if not slower in building attacks. It's the way we play, it's the way our lads are instructed to play. Yes, de Jong does play backwards a fair bit, he wins the ball in situations that other players couldn't dream of, and distributes the ball simply, which is a lot better than 1) not winning the ball at all and 2) winning the ball and launching it senselessly.

for someone who is trying to get it straight, you are no doing too well. Again with the stats. It has been admitted that stats don't show everything, but it tells more than a biased opinion based on who one likes or dislikes. That is just a fact. Also other players don't launch the ball senselessly, matter of fact, if they did I doubt there will be as much complaint about our slow play. So the claim that what he does is better than others who launch senselessly is a straw man. Neither the stats or watching suggests senseless launching!

As for the stats merchants, there's a lot more to football than stats. Barry can make more tackles and interceptions on paper, but you need to study the game to see a players' influence.

Yes you do. And most of those who consult the stats, also watch the game, so it is not as if you have an advantage there.

Most of the interventions Barry picks up probably come from some defensive work from de Jong,

Again, this is an assumption, just like one can assume most of the tackles and interception De Jong gets is 'probably' from Barry or someone else's work.

whether it be a piece of intelligent pressing, standing off, shepherding etc. The stats can say whatever they like, de Jong is a much better player and more important to our side.

Happy you feel that way, but it doesn't make it true simply because you assume it.<br /><br />-- Fri Mar 18, 2011 8:32 pm --<br /><br />

Well, lets use the New Castle game.
De Jong- 39 passes, 32 completions, 7 incompletions
Barry- 37 passes, 29 completions, 8 incompletions

De Jong: 2 tackles won
Barry: 3 tackles won

De Jong: 0 blocks
Barry: 2 blocks

De Jong: 0 clearances
Barry: 2 clearances

De Jong: 2 interceptions
Barry: 3 interceptions

Barry was better at everything De Jong is supposed to be better at. And just as average passing the ball. A closer look, and you see that De jong lost 6 of his 7 passes inside our half. Barry lost 3 of his 8.

We can keep delving into the facts. I actually like this. It males everything clearer :)

You're only showing your absurd overconfidence in your grasp of fact. You lecture others about their debating atyle but you make error after error in support of your ludicrous claims.

You talk about bias; How many games did you go through to find one that supported your version?

Newcastle A. Dear oh dear.

Anyone who has followed this club this year should be able to figure out why De Jong kept a low profile and didn't even attempt a sliding tackle in that match.

Perhaps you missed it, but look up at the highlighted posted by TFS. I specifically pointed out the stats in the game he picked. I was just reviewing the game 'he' randomly picked. I have no interest in canonizing or demonizing any City player. Just following the facts and games provided by someone else.

But I guess you must have missed my pointing out games in which he was excellent. Oh please!

 

[blumoonrisen]

Some folk are so fucked and clueless they shouldn't be allowed to watch football.

 

[colinbellsballboy]

Not read any of the previous 15/16 pages on this post,but can't believe this post,best defensive midfielder in the Prem by a country mile,but hey ho,what do I know?

 

[VinceYoungisaBLUE]

Is there really an arguement about Barry VS de Jong??

To me its clear, just watch the game and you can see what Nigel does on the pitch. It speaks for itslef, Barry is a little past it now I think and should be used sparingly.

 

[Dax777]

Not read any of the previous 15/16 pages on this post,but can't believe this post,best defensive midfielder in the Prem by a country mile,but hey ho,what do I know?

Sometimes the thread is not about what you think it is about. And the opinions contained therein are not simply 2-sided. It is not some for De Jong and others against. It is often more nuanced than that,

 

[wayne71]

Not read any of the previous 15/16 pages on this post,but can't believe this post,best defensive midfielder in the Prem by a country mile,but hey ho,what do I know?

Are you saying he's a better defensive midfielder than anyone in the arse or united squad?

 

[Dax777]

Is there really an arguement about Barry VS de Jong??

To me its clear, just watch the game and you can see what Nigel does on the pitch. It speaks for itslef, Barry is a little past it now I think and should be used sparingly.

Not really, few will argue that Barry is overall better than De Jong. But many will argue it is closer than most contend. At least their production suggest it is. And if that is true, then De Jong is not beyond reproach. These are layered argument and don't end in black and white statements or conclusions.

But the main point of this thread is that De Jong, as loved as he is, is sometimes part of the reason why we are slow moving the ball.