De Jong

Ticket For Schalke said:
Dax777 said:
Again! Nice try, but no one asked that he becomes Silva. You guys make it seem like there are only 2 points between mostly passing it back, and being a creative genius.

It is a sorry argument to say the least! Inler, Assamoah, Benrahmi, Essien, Song, Tiote, Huddlestone, Felliani. Research them! None of them are defense splitting SIlva's.

Underlined usually injured.

I forgot Inler and others mentioned are tearing it up for their sides, Only song plays in a decent side.
Again, you folks continue to miss the point. The point here is that none of these players are SIlvaesque in there passing. Yet, they are not De Jong regressive either. The point here is not whether they are on better teams, healthy or even better than De Jong! The point here is simple. You don't have to be a SIlva like defense disector at DM to help your team offensively!!

As for the quip about only young plays for a Decent side, you must be joking right? Udinese is not a decent team. And I was just mentioning names off my head, but if it makes you feel better, I can add Sven Bendter, Khadera, Busquet, Cambiaso, Lass Diara, Alonzo e.t.c. To the least of DM's who play for great teams and don't go backwards 90% of the time. But really, that wasn't the point. I am not looking for a De Jong replacement. Just stating that claiming he is no SIlva is not a valid excuse.
 
Dax777 said:
Except for this. Last season

ManU played
Tot Played
Everton Played
Hull played
Everton Played
Man U played
Tot played
Man U (Carling Cup) Played
Stoke FA didn't play.

So he played in 8 of our 9 loses. So much for being better :? These are what you call useless stats. As it assumes everythingelse is constant. Which cannot be farther from the truth!


As I said earlier, I would have agreed last year. Since then he has shown better quality passing, improved his tactical play, and shown more initiative. I'm far from the only one to have been won over.
 
Freestyler said:
more than half a job though?

so cause he doesn't pick it up and ping it 40 yards to another player means he doesn't do enough?

he does what he does, what he's set out to do.

roberto expects him to to break it up and give it our midfield to take control, he does that.

the day roberto tells de jong to start making defence splitting passes and 30 yard forward charges then i'll worry!

for now he doesn't need to do, he tackles, he holds the middle together, take him out and the whole middle goes down the shitter.

he is the middle man, in the spine of our team.
Exactly!!! And that is what we are saying he doesn't do. How often do you see him pass it to Yaya, Silva or Barry? Seldom! Why are folks arguing against facts :?
 
Dax777 said:
Ticket For Schalke said:
Underlined usually injured.

I forgot Inler and others mentioned are tearing it up for their sides, Only song plays in a decent side.
Again, you folks continue to miss the point. The point here is that none of these players are SIlvaesque in there passing. Yet, they are not De Jong regressive either. The point here is not whether they are on better teams, healthy or even better than De Jong! The point here is simple. You don't have to be a SIlva like defense disector at DM to help your team offensively!!

As for the quip about only young plays for a Decent side, you must be joking right? Udinese is not a decent team. And I was just mentioning names off my head, but if it makes you feel better, I can add Sven Bendter, Khadera, Busquet, Cambiaso, Lass Diara, Alonzo e.t.c. To the least of DM's who play for great teams and don't go backwards 90% of the time. But really, that wasn't the point. I am not looking for a De Jong replacement. Just stating that claiming he is no SIlva is not a valid excuse.

I dont get what your trying to get at.............your making it sound like all the players above are the hub of their side.

Arent we told to play the way we're facing? and its a myth De Jong doesnt pass forward, he scoots around the back four making space for the easy ball for a centre half.
 
forevermancity said:
Johnsonontheleft said:
is starting to remind me of Garry Flitcroft. He only ever passes sideways or backwards, and it really slows us down.
NDJ is class, he doesn't slow us down at all, who else in the world does his job better than him? No one.

Absolutely.De Jong is world class.
 
Dax777 said:
Freestyler said:
more than half a job though?

so cause he doesn't pick it up and ping it 40 yards to another player means he doesn't do enough?

he does what he does, what he's set out to do.

roberto expects him to to break it up and give it our midfield to take control, he does that.

the day roberto tells de jong to start making defence splitting passes and 30 yard forward charges then i'll worry!

for now he doesn't need to do, he tackles, he holds the middle together, take him out and the whole middle goes down the shitter.

he is the middle man, in the spine of our team.
Exactly!!! And that is what we are saying he doesn't do. How often do you see him pass it to Yaya, Silva or Barry? Seldom! Why are folks arguing against facts :?

Absolutely ridiculous

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/chalkboards/create" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/chalkboards/create</a>

i'd pick one but they're all the same. >80% completion, short passes, long passes, forward passes, passes to every member of the team, diagonal passes to attacking positions on the flanks, and in 9/10 of them, succesful passes into the box (which is more than you can say for Barry).
 
Chick Counterfly said:
Dax777 said:
Exactly!!! And that is what we are saying he doesn't do. How often do you see him pass it to Yaya, Silva or Barry? Seldom! Why are folks arguing against facts :?

Absolutely ridiculous

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/chalkboards/create" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/chalkboards/create</a>

i'd pick one but they're all the same. >80% completion, short passes, long passes, forward passes, passes to every member of the team, diagonal passes to attacking positions on the flanks, and in 9/10 of them, succesful passes into the box (which is more than you can say for Barry).

Whilst your there dax, check a few games, i jusr picked the newc game, passes forward alot more than back.
 
Dax777 said:
I pointed out against Reading, that De Jong was mostly at fault for our slow build up. Folks wanted to eat my head off. It seems more are catching on to it. Sabster has been slated non stop here for pointing this out.

Why is it that most would rather argue fluff than examine the facts. I looked at the ratings thread, and 90% of the raters gave De Jong a higher rating than Barry. And I am thinking to myself how can that be.

1. Barry was everywhere today, had the best first half on the team. Found players in fantastic positions, tackled immaculately and put in a few dangerous passes to booth. De Jong mostly passed back.And NO!!! I am not talking about his passes after winning a tackle. I am talking about his passes after he receives a ball in an advantageous position, but because of his seemingly limited vision, chooses WITHOUT Pressure, to find Kompany or Lescott behind him, while others in better positions are clearly open. I saw 2 of those tonite. In which I actually could see the open guy from the camera angle.

2. Funny how no one mentions that De Jong is no faster than Barry. Funny how everyone ignores the fact that Barry averages more tackles a game. I like De Jong too. But is the bias truly not getting out of hand when the claims NEVER matches the Stats.

3. And please, please, please. Don't respond with more fluff claims it is annoying. The OP wrote that De Jong seems to pass backwards and sideways often. This is a question of fact. Either it is true he does, or it is false. Rather than engage the question, the OP gets insulted. But I redirect to the question, Does he or does he not mostly pass back and sideways?

It has become the norm on bluemoon to pick favorites, and defend them illogically. But worse still is to try to blame a problem we all see, on one of the players we don't like. Sadly, the facts and stats don't do this. They just record. You can draw whatever conclusion you want. With or without bias.

Personally, I stand with Sabtster and the guy who posted the stats! As to the issue of whether De Jong plays a role in why we build up slowly from the back? There is no doubt in my mind, the answer is absofukinglutely YES!!! And the stats and fact back it up.


Lets cite the match against Reading again!

There were 3 or more instances where he had the ball on the left flank in our opponents half and we have enough offensive threat, near or in their box, primed and ready to strike. What did he do? He did the obvious by passing sideways OR backwards to our lagging defense. That totally negates our offensive counter attack or blunt our offensive threat to go for the jugular.

His inability perhaps maybe due to his lack of skillset or repertoire of kicks to provide raking passes, 'slice or draw' passes or 'modulated' crosses. Or it could be an innate mental inability that results in this lack of confidence. Whatever it is this has to be remedied if we want to be a WC or CL team

Look at my age I can still provide a raking pass, a bend pass or a modulated cross especially behind the opponents LB for an overlapping Balotelli or SWP or Micah for the breakaway to strike. That might then gave the opponents pause and leave them vulnerable to provide gaps for a Dzeko or Balotelli strike or header in the middle.

Its easier for us to have a clearer picture of the dynamics of the game and able to evaluate the team's and Nigel performance if we have the plan rather than an elevated or side view. Sometimes when we are too close to the action that we lose sight or don't see the forest for the trees so to speak.

Even if we were to turnover the ball we have enough bodies to cover thier one or two forwards or the City players to backtrack to check them. Most of us watching could evaluate the situtation and see thats so.

Having said that I believe Nigel has limited abilities and does not have the 'nous nor the vision' to provide us with the impetus to be a CL team.
 

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