De Jong

[forevermancity]

This thread is beyond crazy put of all the players to slate I never would have thought fans would choose de Jong. Madness.

 

[ManCityTom]

Such a stupid post, have you took note when he has been injured and not in the team? What a fucking difference it makes when hes in the team?
Gives his all, win's countless number of balls back a game, fantastic at intercepting/tackling
First name on the team sheet.. jesus

bang on the money.

For the first time ever I actually see myself agreeing with De Niro.

 

[feedthegoater]

NDJ ! as been one of our best players this season, how the fuck anyone can start questioning his place in our team must have gone to the same school as Mario, take the following out of our team and we would be in deep shit

Joe Hart

V Kompany

P Zabaleta

NJD

C Tevez

the backbone of Man City

 

[Asa's left peg]

Unbelievable!!
Did you see a coupe of Kiev cheaters sh*t themselves when they saw who they were about to mix it with?
As for the sideways passing crap - he usually picks up the ball when we are in the mire and the oposition are on the break and to blindly pass it forward when players are comming out of the oposition box, is suicide. He gives the team time to reset. We have all probably played a little and think we know everything, but sometimes you have to watch a little closer.

Name me one other player who comes right over at the end to the east stand.

This is right out of order.

 

[Dax777]

Some of you folks need to learn how to argue or examine a bloody point. The point of this thread is quite simple.
City's build up is slow (this in itself is an arguable claim) but if we deem it true. The question here is who are the responsible party's?

This is not slating anyone, but simply an examination of facts. Aided by stats, memory, instances and unfortunately bias! We (at least some of us are) attempting to eschew the bias, and strictly rely on as much facts as possible.

Granted, some do not want to participate in this exercise, fair enough! But throwing insults just for the sake of it wouldn't work. That said let me address those who seem to have, in good faith, broached the topic of discussion.

@Project: It is fallacious to claim teams don't get to us thru the middle when De Jong plays. Especially when you use an example like Kyiv. A team that tactically came to CoMS to defend. It was not De Jong's excellent play that made them keep 10 players in their half almost everytime we had the ball. It was strategic.

Second, it is a weak stat to use correlations between games he plays and those he doesn't play. Even though as I pointed out above,he has been available in over 70% of our loses the last 2 seasons. But the reason why it is a weak stat, is because it is irrelevant to whether he is a part of who's at fault for our slow play! Which by the way is the ISSUE on this thread. Even if the stat had shown decisively that we are better with him in the side, all that tells us is that we have accept his poor buildup (if that is true) with what he brings to the team defensively. This still does not absolve him of the claim of being a big part of why we are often bogged down in midfield.
@ Gerry: Claims of De Jong slowing us down, has nothing to do with being in the "mire and the opposition being on the break," we are talking about when Cith has possession and we are having a tough time getting it out of our half to mount an attack.

You guys need to stop imputing the intelligence of a 3 year old to those who are making an honest claim about a facte. It is not a suggestion that De Jong is crap. Just simly that he has his faults. The inability to see that, already tells a story.

 

[Deleted member 14625]

Please let this be a joke.

Who exactly does De Jong have available in front of him?

Do we just lump it forward because some of you are to idiotic to understand that football is about possession?

Do you think De Jong is in the team to lump it forward?

Are the people moaning about De Jong the same nobheads sat in front of me whose tactical knowledge amounts to shouting "forward" every time a player has the ball?

The chances are, if you have ever shouted "forwards" (the most moronic thing to say at a football ground) in anything other than the final minutes, you know fuck all about football.

It'll be the same morons who thought you could be off-side from a goal kick. It's shocking the amount of blues who know almost fuck all about the game! You're right about de Jong. He's my favourite player and i reckon is our best. He's missed 6 Prem games this season and we haven't won 5 of them!<br /><br />-- Fri Mar 18, 2011 12:29 pm --<br /><br />

Some of you folks need to learn how to argue or examine a bloody point. The point of this thread is quite simple.
City's build up is slow (this in itself is an arguable claim) but if we deem it true. The question here is who are the responsible party's?

This is not slating anyone, but simply an examination of facts. Aided by stats, memory, instances and unfortunately bias! We (at least some of us are) attempting to eschew the bias, and strictly rely on as much facts as possible.

Granted, some do not want to participate in this exercise, fair enough! But throwing insults just for the sake of it wouldn't work. That said let me address those who seem to have, in good faith, broached the topic of discussion.

@Project: It is fallacious to claim teams don't get to us thru the middle when De Jong plays. Especially when you use an example like Kyiv. A team that tactically came to CoMS to defend. It was not De Jong's excellent play that made them keep 10 players in their half almost everytime we had the ball. It was strategic.

Second, it is a weak stat to use correlations between games he plays and those he doesn't play. Even though as I pointed out above,he has been available in over 70% of our loses the last 2 seasons. But the reason why it is a weak stat, is because it is irrelevant to whether he is a part of who's at fault for our slow play! Which by the way is the ISSUE on this thread. Even if the stat had shown decisively that we are better with him in the side, all that tells us is that we have accept his poor buildup (if that is true) with what he brings to the team defensively. This still does not absolve him of the claim of being a big part of why we are often bogged down in midfield.
@ Gerry: Claims of De Jong slowing us down, has nothing to do with being in the "mire and the opposition being on the break," we are talking about when Cith has possession and we are having a tough time getting it out of our half to mount an attack.

You guys need to stop imputing the intelligence of a 3 year old to those who are making an honest claim about a facte. It is not a suggestion that De Jong is crap. Just simly that he has his faults. The inability to see that, already tells a story.

The only inability is in those who don't watch Holland's games and see de Jong when he has two creative players with him in midfield Sneijder and van der Vaart and an abundance of other forward thinking players in Kuyt and van Persie ahead of them. de Jong is brilliant for Holland, de Jong keeps the ball blue when he plays for us because - if anyone sits within two blocks of me will hear me shout "MOVEMENT FOR FUCK'S SAKE" ten times a game - our players stand fucking still, dead still, a lot of the time and Nigel often has nobody to pass to forward. Yaya Toure's movement is sometimes unacceaptable and what's the point in passing to Barry when he gives the ball to the opposition more than he does his own players!?!

 

[Joycee Banercheck]

Whilst your there dax, check a few games, i jusr picked the newc game, passes forward alot more than back.

Well, lets use the New Castle game.
De Jong- 39 passes, 32 completions, 7 incompletions
Barry- 37 passes, 29 completions, 8 incompletions

De Jong: 2 tackles won
Barry: 3 tackles won

De Jong: 0 blocks
Barry: 2 blocks

De Jong: 0 clearances
Barry: 2 clearances

De Jong: 2 interceptions
Barry: 3 interceptions

Barry was better at everything De Jong is supposed to be better at. And just as average passing the ball. A closer look, and you see that De jong lost 6 of his 7 passes inside our half. Barry lost 3 of his 8.

We can keep delving into the facts. I actually like this. It males everything clearer :)

Yeah but what facts don't tell you is that being on the pitch, in a certain position, is just as effective as a tackle. NDJ is drilled to sit in front of the back 4. He'll move to areas of the pitch that make it nigh on impossible for an opponent to pass the ball to a certain player, just by being stood there. Nige does that throughout most games. That's what he does when he reads a game. WHen we win the ball back, which may be the result of a stray pass due to defensive positioning and man-marking, NDJ is usually available to receive the ball from our defence, with his back to the goal, and play a pass that isn't stupid enough to lose possession in an area of the pitch that would be suicidal.

Not only that, I don't agree with the bollocks that he can't pas forward. He's done it plenty of times this season. Your super-dooper-stats graphics via the Guardian will tell you that.

 

[AntonDonJuan]

I love these threads.

Then when he beasts Chelsea on Sunday and puts in a MOM performance against a World Class midfield, there will be countless threads saying how he's a god and needs to be captain.

De Jong has a job, to win the ball back and then pass to another blue shirt. Forwards, backwards, sidewards any fucking way you can think of, just give it to the nearest blue shirt in space. Job done.

Gareth Barry is the player limiting us the most IMO. Too slow, immobile, passing has been shocking lately, and offers nothing going forward. If we replace Barry with a proper Centre Mid who suits our football then it's problem solved.

Next season we should play Toure next to NDJ as the 2 holding players it opens up another position attacking wise for someone better going forward than Toure and also improves us no end on the position Barry currently occupies

 

[Dax777]

Such a stupid post, have you took note when he has been injured and not in the team? What a fucking difference it makes when hes in the team?
Gives his all, win's countless number of balls back a game, fantastic at intercepting/tackling
First name on the team sheet.. jesus

bang on the money.

Actually this is not bang on the money. And their is a fact checker to use. He had games in which he was fantastic. Example City v. Newcastle at home. Where he was everywhere doing a yo man's job. And the stats support this. And he has games where he was nondescript. And often the stats show this too.

Yes, the stats can't show how he supports a defender and force a player to go back, and it can't show the levels of danger we were in on different tackles and interceptions. The stats can't show a lot of things. But to assume all the things the stat doesn't show, only favor De Jong is laughably childish. Considering the stat don't show this for the other players too.

But from the little the stats show, we can easily dissuade ourselves from the belief that De Jong does so much more than Barry. The stats consistently shows this not to be the case. Startling enough, in a lot of those early games, barry wasn't even getting consistent playing time. He'd be fobbed on around the 60th to 75th minute, and yet have a stat line just as good as De Jong, and sometimes better. If nothing else that is telling. If Barry can statistically match or even compare to DeJong in 30 minutes of play. How can he be considered so much worse off, if not a function of bias.

 

[CaptainCarlos]

"To me, attacking football happens when Makelele gets the ball and passes it to the central defender who passes it to the right-back who comes forward and judges the situation. If he can do something he passes forward or runs with the ball, if not he gives it back to Makelele who builds the attack again. That is attacking football. In England, attacking football is giving the ball to Makelele and having him hit it forward no matter what, even if everybody is marked."
-- Jose Mourinho

Pointers: DeJong = Makelele