Dianne Abbott

[Vic]

It wasn't in mine neither or my mates, I mean who would sign such a contract.

I can't quite get my head round this. You joined the army at 16 and your enlistment paper didn't mention that as a soldier you might be sent to war. Was there no "cautionary statement" e.g. "Applicants must bear in mind that joining the Armed Forces may lead to them serving in an armed conflict in any part of the world with the risks and responsibilities involved"?

But if they had told you that as a soldier you might get killed, you would not have enlisted?

 

[Vic]

...
Well what the fuck are they then if they aren’t foreign criminals?

They’re foreign and they are breaking the law...

Of what crime have they been convicted?

 

[Ban-jani]

Of what crime have they been convicted?

Illegally attempting to enter a country is a crime.

I thought that was obvious.

If I hide in a suitcase and try and break into America after a flight, without a visa, I’m committing a crime.

Similarly if someone is deported and then tries to get back into the country, they are committing a crime, not to mention we deport individuals who either are here illegally or who have committed a crime whilst here legally.

This is obvious stuff, Vic.

 

[Vic]

Illegally attempting to enter a country is a crime.

I thought that was obvious.

If I hide in a suitcase and try and break into America after a flight, without a visa, I’m committing a crime.

Similarly if someone is deported and then tries to get back into the country, they are committing a crime, not to mention we deport individuals who either are here illegally or who have committed a crime whilst here legally.

This is obvious stuff, Vic.

There are defences to offences and you have to be convicted to be a criminal. Call me pedantic but the point is that calling them "foreign criminals" (as Patel did) sounds like they are foreigners with criminal convictions.

I know why she uses language like that.

It's to appeal to people who think like her.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Illegally attempting to enter a country is a crime.

I thought that was obvious.

If I hide in a suitcase and try and break into America after a flight, without a visa, I’m committing a crime.

Similarly if someone is deported and then tries to get back into the country, they are committing a crime, not to mention we deport individuals who either are here illegally or who have committed a crime whilst here legally.

This is obvious stuff, Vic.

I'm afraid you're trying to rationalise with people who simply want open borders,
similar discussions on immigration threads always end up the same way.

 

[ZenHalfTimeCrock]

Abbott's biography is due to be published soon.



Although I am aware of her reputation, I actually don't know much about her.

However, I have worked with Robin Bunce on a collaborative publication (nothing to do with politics) in which he served as my editor.

He is a Cambridge don but not yer typical academic. I can certainly vouch for the guy. He's a wonderfully pellucid writer.

This isn't a biography that I would personally read but it will be interesting to see how it is received and whether it turns out to be something of a hagiography because it is 'authorised'. Given what I know of Bunce, I suspect that it won't as he has a lot of integrity.

 

[Ban-jani]

There are defences to offences and you have to be convicted to be a criminal. Call me pedantic but the point is that calling them "foreign criminals" (as Patel did) sounds like they are foreigners with criminal convictions.

I know why she uses language like that.

It's to appeal to people who think like her.

Vic, if they’ve been deported they’ve already been convicted of either being a criminal whilst here or for entering the country illegally.

Why can’t you get this into your head?

Think about the reasons why people are deported.

 

[BobKowalski]

Illegally attempting to enter a country is a crime.

I thought that was obvious.

If I hide in a suitcase and try and break into America after a flight, without a visa, I’m committing a crime.

Similarly if someone is deported and then tries to get back into the country, they are committing a crime, not to mention we deport individuals who either are here illegally or who have committed a crime whilst here legally.

This is obvious stuff, Vic.

The process of seeking asylum allows that you may have entered a country by ‘irregular’ means, so no, you are not automatically committing a crime by entering without the necessary paperwork if you claim asylum and submit yourself to the legal process.

 

[inbetween]

The process of seeking asylum allows that you may have entered a country by ‘irregular’ means, so no, you are not automatically committing a crime by entering without the necessary paperwork if you claim asylum and submit yourself to the legal process.

The only exception that allows illegal entry is if that person is fleeing an unsafe country, however where many get this wrong is it doesn't matter if that person passes through 'safe' countries first. For all others where asylum cases fail those people are classed as illegal migrants and probably will be deported but those numbers are very small.

It is pretty obvious that if someone enters the UK illegally then it is unlikely that they will lodge an asylum case which they know will fail and get them deported. This is perhaps why the poor people crossing the Channel at great risk are very likely to be genuine, desperate people. I don't know if French immigration/asylum laws are different hence why migrants choose to make that crossing.

Current estimates are that there are over 1 million illegal immigrants in the UK and the number is rising by tens of thousands per year whilst deportations are falling, probably because of a lack of funding, policy and resources.

We get this picture that the Tories are strong on immigration but actually the last decade has shown that their policies and action on it have been a total failure. Failing to work with France to solve this on their side of the border is a major reason too.

 

[blueinsa]

The process of seeking asylum allows that you may have entered a country by ‘irregular’ means, so no, you are not automatically committing a crime by entering without the necessary paperwork if you claim asylum and submit yourself to the legal process.

Which the vast majority trying to enter via a boat supplied by criminal gangs have zero intention of doing. The plan is to evade all law enforcement and to then disappear into society.

Criminal behaviour.