Dianne Abbott

Well it is political yes. And she's a politician. Here's a tip for Labour politicians. If you know that your party has been tarnished with a reputation for antisemitism, whether or not you think it's justified, try not to go out of your way to write an letter about how Jewish people's racism is different (let's be honest, lesser) to those of other racial minorities.

But also her argument is absolute bollocks. One could make the argument that white-looking minorities in the modern era, like Jews, travellers, gay people, etc, could fly under the radar by simply hiding their identity, whereas black/brown people can never do that. It's not a great argument, basically meaning that you're saying that not being able to openly live according to your culture without fear of attack or abuse isn't (technically) racism. But I get that some people might define racism as purely a colour thing, which is very much an academic argument - is racism just about colour or does it include ethnicity and culture? But that's not what she said. She said that 'there were no white-seeming people manacled on slave ships' as if there isn't some equivalency between that and the holocaust, which was explicitly about racial purity, and pointed to pre-civil rights America and South Africa, as if Jews didn't face centuries of similar segregation in many European countries leading up to the holocaust. Given that she's pointing to historical examples that are older than the holocaust, she is basically arguing that the holocaust wasn't racist prejudice, it was something different. Given that even if you believe that, it's such an academic and inconsequential distinction, why the fuck would you feel the need to make that distinction given that your party is trying to recover its image after being accused of antisemitism? For a politician, she just doesn't seem very good at politics.
Can’t argue with any of that.

However I think a harsh punishment such as removing the whip could be counterproductive and could actually encourage some people to be antisemitic or anti other white minorities due to Jews, travellers, Irish etc being painted as playing the victim. We’ve already seen people on this thread saying they can’t say the J word without being accused of antisemitism which is bollocks. A sincere apology by Abbott should have been enough. Her bullshit excuse about a first draft certainly didn’t help.
 
Can’t argue with any of that.

However I think a harsh punishment such as removing the whip could be counterproductive and could actually encourage some people to be antisemitic or anti other white minorities due to Jews, travellers, Irish etc being painted as playing the victim. We’ve already seen people on this thread saying they can’t say the J word without being accused of antisemitism which is bollocks. A sincere apology by Abbott should have been enough. Her bullshit excuse about a first draft certainly didn’t help.

Anyone who is going to be antisemitic because Diane Abbott lost the whip was already racist.
 
Well it is political yes. And she's a politician. Here's a tip for Labour politicians. If you know that your party has been tarnished with a reputation for antisemitism, whether or not you think it's justified, try not to go out of your way to write an letter about how Jewish people's racism is different (let's be honest, lesser) to those of other racial minorities.

But also her argument is absolute bollocks. One could make the argument that white-looking minorities in the modern era, like Jews, travellers, gay people, etc, could fly under the radar by simply hiding their identity, whereas black/brown people can never do that. It's not a great argument, basically meaning that you're saying that not being able to openly live according to your culture without fear of attack or abuse isn't (technically) racism. But I get that some people might define racism as purely a colour thing, which is very much an academic argument - is racism just about colour or does it include ethnicity and culture? But that's not what she said. She said that 'there were no white-seeming people manacled on slave ships' as if there isn't some equivalency between that and the holocaust, which was explicitly about racial purity, and pointed to pre-civil rights America and South Africa, as if Jews didn't face centuries of similar segregation in many European countries leading up to the holocaust. Given that she's pointing to historical examples that are older than the holocaust, she is basically arguing that the holocaust wasn't racist prejudice, it was something different. Given that even if you believe that, it's such an academic and inconsequential distinction, why the fuck would you feel the need to make that distinction given that your party is trying to recover its image after being accused of antisemitism? For a politician, she just doesn't seem very good at politics.
You put it across far better than I could've done!
 
Can’t argue with any of that.

However I think a harsh punishment such as removing the whip could be counterproductive and could actually encourage some people to be antisemitic or anti other white minorities due to Jews, travellers, Irish etc being painted as playing the victim. We’ve already seen people on this thread saying they can’t say the J word without being accused of antisemitism which is bollocks. A sincere apology by Abbott should have been enough. Her bullshit excuse about a first draft certainly didn’t help.
Do you think that this fear of being counterproductive is perhaps the reason why Jeremy Corbyn’s office interfered in the handling of so many complaints of anti-semitism during his time as Labour leader? Or indeed why they simply didn’t bother to investigate many other complaints? That’s an interesting argument, to put it mildly.

An alternative explanation is that this latest episode of the pissed-up bigot’s letter - which she alone saw the need to write - is just another example of the hard left’s engrained anti-Semitic views.

I know which explanation I regard as the more likely.
 
Not a fan of hers or agree in any way with her comments but can’t help thinking the reaction is a little over the top and suspending the whip is excessive, and is more political than principled.
I don't see her comments as antisemitic per se, but they perfectly illustrate the Labour Party's issue with antisemitism, particularly under the previous leadership. Corbyn himself, despite his and his supporters' unshakeable belief that there wasn't a racist bone in his body, came over as antisemitic.

Hence the reaction, which could be seen as excessive but where Starmer needs to make a point. I'd also suggest that Abbott is seen as a risk, and open target for the media, os he's been given the chance to remove that risk.
 
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These threads which inevitably become about race are by far the worst reading on bluemoon
 
I can't beleive this thread about an MP being suspended for expessing racist views has beend derailed by talk about racism.
It's important for some to redefine and to come up with scenarios depending on which party or part of the party the racism comes from.

Think of it like a city player going down in the box and the reaction to it compared to a scouse player doing the same.

Sad but inevitable.
 
It's important for some to redefine and to come up with scenarios depending on which party or part of the party the racism comes from.

Think of it like a city player going down in the box and the reaction to it compared to a scouse player doing the same.

Sad but inevitable.

a dipper diving in the box you say? What a thing to suggest - how very dare you lol
 

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