Did Mancini put his own CV ahead of City's interests?

[Soulboy]

The principles are the same.

There are no 'principles' here. It's risk and reward. The loss hasn't damaged our hopes of fourth THAT significantly. We're strong favourites. A win would have been great news but the chances were slim, because we had players with one eye on the cup and Liverpool had absolutely nothing to lose. Selecting De Jong might have made a big difference but it might well not have. If he'd pulled a Tevez we'd be going into the game with that same midfield duo. And it's a ONE-OFF GAME. How hard is that to understand? We have 6 more cracks at securing top four. We have only one chance at getting to the final.

Management is about prioritising. Mancini has to prioritise the Top 4 place. A Cup is a bonus.

In the real world management is always about balancing priorities.

Even beating the rags will not be good enough if we fail to get top 4. So he should have played his strongest team against Liverpool... or were you happy that he didn't and we lost because of it?

Even worse is that he cocked up the Liverpool game... and then we lose to the rags as well!

It would be horrible. But the truth is we'd still be in a hugely strong position with 6 games left to secure fourth.

Now that would be fucking ludicrous management. One game at a time at this stage of the season, involving your best team each time.

But no manager with cup and league targets EVER does this!

I admire your optimism, but the fact that we have been on the slide for 4 months now, the reality that we look like we don't have another away win in us, leaves us with very little margin of error going into the last half dozen games.

We actually looked stronger going into the run-in last season than we do now.

I'm amazed that you think we are in such a strong position!

But we all keep clinging to the hope... even me! I just don't share your belief in the manager...

 

[howfen blue]

Yeah, would have been terrible had de Jong got another booking in the Liverpool game.

So why bring him on as a sub then?

Precisely.

It was like Wolves away all over again. He completely lost the plot.

And why bring balo off (even though he was shit) to provide even more ammo for all and sundry to get on his case!!!

 

[Soulboy]

Yeah, would have been terrible had de Jong got another booking in the Liverpool game.

So why bring him on as a sub then?

The amnesty has been and gone since our previous game, thus a booking wouldn't have meant a suspension. Still, a red card or injury would have been dreadful.

I really don't know what he hoped to gain from bringing him on but it's reasonable to say that in the last 30 it's extremely unlikely that he would get sent off, injured, or run himself too hard.

So the point made by the poster that Mancini took de Jong out because he might have ended up being suspended is a load of bollocks?

Well no surprise there then. The guy is clueless.

And even you can't think of a reason to bring him on for the last 30 minutes!

I do like your comment that in the last 30 minutes he was unlikely to get an injury... eh? Tevez was injured after 15 minutes in an innocuous challenge, yet somehow de Jong is exempt from that!

Your're just making this stuff up now as you go along, aren't you!

;-))

 

[m27]

Precisely.

It was like Wolves away all over again. He completely lost the plot.

And why bring balo off (even though he was shit) to provide even more ammo for all and sundry to get on his case!!!

It made no sense whatsoever. Balo said he was injured but Mancini said it was 'tactical'. I think Balo was perfectly fit and for the sake of 10 minutes was a stupid decision on both levels.

 

[persvenality cult]

There are no 'principles' here. It's risk and reward. The loss hasn't damaged our hopes of fourth THAT significantly. We're strong favourites. A win would have been great news but the chances were slim, because we had players with one eye on the cup and Liverpool had absolutely nothing to lose. Selecting De Jong might have made a big difference but it might well not have. If he'd pulled a Tevez we'd be going into the game with that same midfield duo. And it's a ONE-OFF GAME. How hard is that to understand? We have 6 more cracks at securing top four. We have only one chance at getting to the final.


In the real world management is always about balancing priorities.





It would be horrible. But the truth is we'd still be in a hugely strong position with 6 games left to secure fourth.

But no manager with cup and league targets EVER does this!

I admire your optimism, but the fact that we have been on the slide for 4 months now, the reality that we look like we don't have another away win in us, leaves us with very little margin of error going into the last half dozen games.

We actually looked stronger going into the run-in last season than we do now.

I'm amazed that you think we are in such a strong position!

But we all keep clinging to the hope... even me! I just don't share your belief in the manager...

It's not about optimisim, belief in the manager or current form. We're talking about a decision that is identical 'in principle' to decisions made by all the top managers in this situation. I've never been less enamoured with Mancini, but that doesn't change what I've learned from watching football, the last ten years in particular. They all shuffle and try to play the percentages, to give themselves an advantage in the biggest games.

 

[Soulboy]

I admire your optimism, but the fact that we have been on the slide for 4 months now, the reality that we look like we don't have another away win in us, leaves us with very little margin of error going into the last half dozen games.

We actually looked stronger going into the run-in last season than we do now.

I'm amazed that you think we are in such a strong position!

But we all keep clinging to the hope... even me! I just don't share your belief in the manager...

It's not about optimisim, belief in the manager or current form. We're talking about a decision that is identical 'in principle' to decisions made by all the top managers in this situation. I've never been less enamoured with Mancini, but that doesn't change what I've learned from watching football, the last ten years in particular. They all shuffle and try to play the percentages, to give themselves an advantage in the biggest games.

Ah, so even you are now seeing the light!

I genuinely though you might have held out for a bit longer... ;-))

 

[persvenality cult]

The amnesty has been and gone since our previous game, thus a booking wouldn't have meant a suspension. Still, a red card or injury would have been dreadful.

I really don't know what he hoped to gain from bringing him on but it's reasonable to say that in the last 30 it's extremely unlikely that he would get sent off, injured, or run himself too hard.

So the point made by the poster that Mancini took de Jong out because he might have ended up being suspended is a load of bollocks?

Well no surprise there then. The guy is clueless.

You didn't know that either, though, did you!

And even you can't think of a reason to bring him on for the last 30 minutes!

I do like your comment that in the last 30 minutes he was unlikely to get an injury... eh? Tevez was injured after 15 minutes in an innocuous challenge, yet somehow de Jong is exempt from that!

Your're just making this stuff up now as you go along, aren't you!

;-))

Some things are more likely than others. If you go on knowing there is nothing to be gained by stretching for every last ball, if you've had sixty minutes to warm up, then you are less likely to be injured than a guy going all out from the first whistle.

I agree, I don't know what it was in aid of, but I don't see it as particularly risky. If anything, and this will NOT go down well, I got the feeling that he decided that he didn't want Liverpool to score again. 3-0 is rubbish, really bollocks, but if they'd got four, five six, maybe it could shatter Hart's confidence.

Yes, I'm 'making that up as I go along'. I prefer to call it thinking out loud!

 

[m27]

I admire your optimism, but the fact that we have been on the slide for 4 months now, the reality that we look like we don't have another away win in us, leaves us with very little margin of error going into the last half dozen games.

We actually looked stronger going into the run-in last season than we do now.

I'm amazed that you think we are in such a strong position!

But we all keep clinging to the hope... even me! I just don't share your belief in the manager...

It's not about optimisim, belief in the manager or current form. We're talking about a decision that is identical 'in principle' to decisions made by all the top managers in this situation. I've never been less enamoured with Mancini, but that doesn't change what I've learned from watching football, the last ten years in particular. They all shuffle and try to play the percentages, to give themselves an advantage in the biggest games.

Let's talk specifics rather than general management principles at the top level:

- You don't rest De Jong because he is absolutely vital in every game;
- You don't rest Silva because he is the creativity through the middle when playing without real width.

There's prioritising games and there's putting a side out which has little to no chance of scoring. Monday was the latter. I'm still trying to work out what the plan was regarding scoring on Monday seeing as we had no creativity through the middle but were not putting crosses in either. Anyone?

 

[GStar]

Let's talk specifics rather than general management principles at the top level:

- You don't rest De Jong because he is absolutely vital in every game;
- You don't rest Silva because he is the creativity through the middle when playing without real width.

There's prioritising games and there's putting a side out which has little to no chance of scoring. Monday was the latter. I'm still trying to work out what the plan was regarding scoring on Monday seeing as we had no creativity through the middle but were not putting crosses in either. Anyone?

This, imo, is exactlyt he kind of attitude we need to get away from... Utd rested Nani recently, Drogba's been on Chelsea's bench, Arshavin is in and out of the team at Arsenal, Nasri has been rested this season too.

We are a team, we have a squad more than capable of performing; we don't rely on single players and we need to get use to that, the competitions we play, the more our squad will become invaluable.

 

[m27]

Let's talk specifics rather than general management principles at the top level:

- You don't rest De Jong because he is absolutely vital in every game;
- You don't rest Silva because he is the creativity through the middle when playing without real width.

There's prioritising games and there's putting a side out which has little to no chance of scoring. Monday was the latter. I'm still trying to work out what the plan was regarding scoring on Monday seeing as we had no creativity through the middle but were not putting crosses in either. Anyone?

This, imo, is exactlyt he kind of attitude we need to get away from... Utd rested Nani recently, Drogba's been on Chelsea's bench, Arshavin is in and out of the team at Arsenal, Nasri has been rested this season too.

We are a team, we have a squad more than capable of performing; we don't rely on single players and we need to get use to that, the competitions we play, the more our squad will become invaluable.

Nice theory. Now let's look at our squad and the way Mancini plays. He plays narrow with inverted wingers. Therefore, Silva is essential for creativity and not one person in our squad comes close to doing what De Jong does.

Valencia came in for Nani recently. An able replacement.

Now, we COULD have rested players and then played with wingers and asked them to get as many crosses in as possible for Dzeko....not rocket science.

 

[howfen blue]

Let's talk specifics rather than general management principles at the top level:

- You don't rest De Jong because he is absolutely vital in every game;
- You don't rest Silva because he is the creativity through the middle when playing without real width.

There's prioritising games and there's putting a side out which has little to no chance of scoring. Monday was the latter. I'm still trying to work out what the plan was regarding scoring on Monday seeing as we had no creativity through the middle but were not putting crosses in either. Anyone?

This, imo, is exactlyt he kind of attitude we need to get away from... Utd rested Nani recently, Drogba's been on Chelsea's bench, Arshavin is in and out of the team at Arsenal, Nasri has been rested this season too.

We are a team, we have a squad more than capable of performing; we don't rely on single players and we need to get use to that, the competitions we play, the more our squad will become invaluable.

They don't rest them in vital games though maybe against the so called lesser teams but never away at Anfield!!

 

[GStar]

If we win on Saturday, will anyone really give two shits aboutt he team selection on Monday?

 

[1_barry_conlon]

Let's talk specifics rather than general management principles at the top level:

- You don't rest De Jong because he is absolutely vital in every game;
- You don't rest Silva because he is the creativity through the middle when playing without real width.

There's prioritising games and there's putting a side out which has little to no chance of scoring. Monday was the latter. I'm still trying to work out what the plan was regarding scoring on Monday seeing as we had no creativity through the middle but were not putting crosses in either. Anyone?

This, imo, is exactlyt he kind of attitude we need to get away from... Utd rested Nani recently, Drogba's been on Chelsea's bench, Arshavin is in and out of the team at Arsenal, Nasri has been rested this season too.

We are a team, we have a squad more than capable of performing; we don't rely on single players and we need to get use to that, the competitions we play, the more our squad will become invaluable.

But the above players, apart from Arshavin lately respond when they do play. Ours just appear to be going through the motions.

When Drogba has come on in the last few Chelsea games he's played with a 'look at me, i deserve to be in the starting XI' attitude.

Can you say the same about any of ours?

 

[m27]

If we win on Saturday, will anyone really give two shits aboutt he team selection on Monday?

Actually yes I will, especially if we finish outside the Top 4. It won't be playing heavy on my mind on Saturday night as I celebrate but it's still relevant.

 

[1_barry_conlon]

If we win on Saturday, will anyone really give two shits aboutt he team selection on Monday?

And if we don't win on Saturday then what?

This team would crumble for the rest of the season if that happens.

All your eggs in one basket...not for me thanks.

 

[bluetoo]

 

[Motty]

I don't think for one minute Mancini would ever have done this. It seems clear to me that Mancini wants this club to succeed almost as much as the fans do. He knows what his aims are, he knows what happens if he meets them, and more importantly, what happens if he doesn't meet them.

That team was WAY MORE than capable of beating Liverpool. Tevez, Dzeko, Johnson, Yaya, Barry, Kompany, Lescott, Hart - all proven internationals, and, apart from Dzeko and maybe Barry, all key parts of the team at the moment. If he'd made 10 changes or so, then maybe. But no, he was just trying to use his resources effectively, which any good manager should do.

He tried to win the game. He even took the blame for us failing to do that. Doesn't seem like a man more bothered about his own CV than the club? If Mancini had any thoughts of leaving, he'd have gone, he wouldn't have stuck around to risk his career being damaged and being made a laughing stock of.

Will his team selection look any stupider if we lose on Saturday? No. Because, a, I still believe we'll get top four, and our strongest 11 may have lost that game anyway. It was more the performance the players who played put in rather than the players he actually picked.

They'll be more important factors than this to look back on if we don't get top four, e.g. Silly home points dropped.

 

[Anonymous]

Let's talk specifics rather than general management principles at the top level:

- You don't rest De Jong because he is absolutely vital in every game;
- You don't rest Silva because he is the creativity through the middle when playing without real width.

There's prioritising games and there's putting a side out which has little to no chance of scoring. Monday was the latter. I'm still trying to work out what the plan was regarding scoring on Monday seeing as we had no creativity through the middle but were not putting crosses in either. Anyone?

This, imo, is exactlyt he kind of attitude we need to get away from... Utd rested Nani recently, Drogba's been on Chelsea's bench, Arshavin is in and out of the team at Arsenal, Nasri has been rested this season too.

We are a team, we have a squad more than capable of performing; we don't rely on single players and we need to get use to that, the competitions we play, the more our squad will become invaluable.

I'm sorry but, away at Anfield - Wenger would never drop Fabregas, Fergie would never drop Rooney, Ancelotti would never drop Lampard....you don't bench the players who make you tick. Nonsensical doesn't even cover it.

 

[m27]

I don't think for one minute Mancini would ever have done this. It seems clear to me that Mancini wants this club to succeed almost as much as the fans do. He knows what his aims are, he knows what happens if he meets them, and more importantly, what happens if he doesn't meet them.

That team was WAY MORE than capable of beating Liverpool. Tevez, Dzeko, Johnson, Yaya, Barry, Kompany, Lescott, Hart - all proven internationals, and, apart from Dzeko and maybe Barry, all key parts of the team at the moment. If he'd made 10 changes or so, then maybe. But no, he was just trying to use his resources effectively, which any good manager should do.

He tried to win the game. He even took the blame for us failing to do that. Doesn't seem like a man more bothered about his own CV than the club? If Mancini had any thoughts of leaving, he'd have gone, he wouldn't have stuck around to risk his career being damaged and being made a laughing stock of.

Will his team selection look any stupider if we lose on Saturday? No. Because, a, I still believe we'll get top four, and our strongest 11 may have lost that game anyway. It was more the performance the players who played put in rather than the players he actually picked.

They'll be more important factors than this to look back on if we don't get top four, e.g. Silly home points dropped.

Serious question - how were we meant to score on Monday given the way we set up?

 

[Motty]

I don't think for one minute Mancini would ever have done this. It seems clear to me that Mancini wants this club to succeed almost as much as the fans do. He knows what his aims are, he knows what happens if he meets them, and more importantly, what happens if he doesn't meet them.

That team was WAY MORE than capable of beating Liverpool. Tevez, Dzeko, Johnson, Yaya, Barry, Kompany, Lescott, Hart - all proven internationals, and, apart from Dzeko and maybe Barry, all key parts of the team at the moment. If he'd made 10 changes or so, then maybe. But no, he was just trying to use his resources effectively, which any good manager should do.

He tried to win the game. He even took the blame for us failing to do that. Doesn't seem like a man more bothered about his own CV than the club? If Mancini had any thoughts of leaving, he'd have gone, he wouldn't have stuck around to risk his career being damaged and being made a laughing stock of.

Will his team selection look any stupider if we lose on Saturday? No. Because, a, I still believe we'll get top four, and our strongest 11 may have lost that game anyway. It was more the performance the players who played put in rather than the players he actually picked.

They'll be more important factors than this to look back on if we don't get top four, e.g. Silly home points dropped.

Serious question - how were we meant to score on Monday given the way we set up?

Would have helped if Tevez had stayed on. But we had two strikers on the field? Surely when you do that, you must always have at least some chance of scoring, there's a limit to how defensive minded you can be if you've got 2 strikers. We weren't really set up that defensively, our performance was just absolutely awful.