Dipper Takeover? [Merged]

[Damocles]

The media despise Liverpool by and large, perhaps due to their pro-United slant.

 

[fbloke]

Even as a (former) member of the "Big 4" their revenue was much less than the other 3. Off the top of my head it was about £170m compared to over £220m for the others. Virtually all of that difference was matchday revenue so a new stadium could put £40-50m a year into the coffers.

A 5 or 6 year payback period on a new stadium would be quite good I reckon.

Yes it would be amazing but I don't think its possible.

A few things to remember - £170m included Champions League. Without it (and it could never be guaranteed again) its £100m to £110m. You can't ignore the fact that Arsenal and Chelsea are London clubs with the associated ability to generate much much higher stadium revenues (the customer base is simply much wealthier). And United are simply a much bigger club than Liverpool on a financial basis. ie the £50-60m wasn't simply a difference in number of seats (Chelsea's capacity is roughly the same as Liverpool) its also about what a club can charge for its tickets/its corporate revenues.

Lets say they build a £200m stadium with 60,000 seats. Even if they fill it (and again this can't be guaranteed in a recessionary economy (5 more years for Liverpool??) and a poor city) the incremental additional revenue is £1m tops per game (22,000 at £45 (inc VAT) average ticket price (probably less in Liverpool but adjusted for increased corporate revenues)). Lets say they play 30 homes games (a stretch without Europe) thats £30m additional income per annum. Take out VAT and admittedly limited additional costs and the net pre-tax profit is probably less than £15m. Even ignoring financing costs on the stadium the payback on a stadium would be a lot longer than 5 or 6 years. And all the time they would need to fund a team outside of the Champions League.

Unless Liverpool can fluke the Champions League every year with its current spending, pocket the upside of the new stadium and get someone to pay for the new stadium there is no upside from this deal in the medium term. Obviously the less paid for the business today the better the chance of generating upside but anything over £250m leaves no room for such upside in my mind.

Much like the City deal for our guys, neither deal would be about financial return. Be under no illusions btw, our deal was never about financial return.

All of that is very true and I dont doubt general accuracy of the figures but I take issue with the financing of it.

Assuming the buyer uses his own cash then he has to make more than the £20m (very much the minimum) PA return on the £200m capital to stand still.

I would expect the whole thing will be predicated on debt, and on that debt at a bare minium of 8%.

So now they need to find a further £16m from revenues to keep the debt at £200m.

It starts to look very shaky indeed.

 

[slbsn]

All of that is very true and I dont doubt general accuracy of the figures but I take issue with the financing of it.

Assuming the buyer uses his own cash then he has to make more than the £20m (very much the minimum) PA return on the £200m capital to stand still.

I would expect the whole thing will be predicated on debt, and on that debt at a bare minium of 8%.

So now they need to find a further £16m from revenues to keep the debt at £200m.

It starts to look very shaky indeed.

Absolutely agree. I was trying to be generous/conservative to illustrate that even without that £16m of interest it's a long long game to get even a minimal return.

 

[shelovesyouyehyehyeh]

Let me preceed this post by saying I have very little belief that LFC will be brought anytime soon. We have been messed about so much that it becomes difficult to have faith.

But basically Huang is still in the hunt, he denied making a bid but has confirmed his interest. The Yanks know that the deal Huang is proposing would leave them with very little or no profit.
They then send out their PR firms to try and find dirt on Huang to try and disuade the fans.

They (GG and TH) then put this Kirdi forward as it delays any potential sale to Huang as the banks have to look at any offer by law.
Kirdi is fronting a bid as is Huang. But Kirdi is very close to Foster Gillett and lives in Canada.
Kirdi also suggests that he has spoken to the americans and has agreed terms, the thing is though he needs to speak to BarCap not the yanks.
He has also said that he has a new stadium designed which is not going to go in his favour as planning permission has already been given for the current design and any new design will need to pass another permission of planning.

This pic was taken back in 2009. Its so transparent what is going on.

<a class="postlink" href="http://ca.news.yahoo.com/nphotos/FILE-George-Gillett-Yahya-Kirdi-and-Tom-Hicks-are-shown-in-Montreal-in-a-Nov-2009-handout-photo-A-Canadian-based-Syrian-businessman-leading-a-con/photo/04082010/2/photo/national-file-george-gillett-yahya-kirdi-tom-hicks-shown-montreal.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://ca.news.yahoo.com/nphotos/FILE-G ... treal.html</a>

Like I said, I still think that come 1st september the yanks will somehow still be here, they are slimy twats and it wouldnt surprise me in the slightest.

Tomorrow the Times is running with who are Huangs backers , they are CIC , access to assets of £332 Billion.

I hope we dont go mental and stupid in the market if he does get his backers in.
We dont deserve a buyer anymore than anyone else but for too long now this club has been run by self centered idiots and the people of Anfield and Walton Breck deserve better.

 

[dick slexia]

Let me preceed this post by saying I have very little belief that LFC will be brought anytime soon. We have been messed about so much that it becomes difficult to have faith.

But basically Huang is still in the hunt, he denied making a bid but has confirmed his interest. The Yanks know that the deal Huang is proposing would leave them with very little or no profit.
They then send out their PR firms to try and find dirt on Huang to try and disuade the fans.

They (GG and TH) then put this Kirdi forward as it delays any potential sale to Huang as the banks have to look at any offer by law.
Kirdi is fronting a bid as is Huang. But Kirdi is very close to Foster Gillett and lives in Canada.
Kirdi also suggests that he has spoken to the americans and has agreed terms, the thing is though he needs to speak to BarCap not the yanks.
He has also said that he has a new stadium designed which is not going to go in his favour as planning permission has already been given for the current design and any new design will need to pass another permission of planning.

Like I said, I still think that come 1st september the yanks will somehow still be here, they are slimy twats and it wouldnt surprise me in the slightest.

Tomorrow the Times is running with who are Huangs backers , they are CIC , access to assets of £332 Billion.

I hope we dont go mental and stupid in the market if he does get his backers in.
We dont deserve a buyer anymore than anyone else but for too long now this club has been run by self centered idiots and the people of Anfield and Walton Breck deserve better.

Well good luck in getting rid of the Yanks but you do realise you wont sell many replica shirts in Tibet if the the chinese deal does go through

 

[shelovesyouyehyehyeh]

Let me preceed this post by saying I have very little belief that LFC will be brought anytime soon. We have been messed about so much that it becomes difficult to have faith.

But basically Huang is still in the hunt, he denied making a bid but has confirmed his interest. The Yanks know that the deal Huang is proposing would leave them with very little or no profit.
They then send out their PR firms to try and find dirt on Huang to try and disuade the fans.

They (GG and TH) then put this Kirdi forward as it delays any potential sale to Huang as the banks have to look at any offer by law.
Kirdi is fronting a bid as is Huang. But Kirdi is very close to Foster Gillett and lives in Canada.
Kirdi also suggests that he has spoken to the americans and has agreed terms, the thing is though he needs to speak to BarCap not the yanks.
He has also said that he has a new stadium designed which is not going to go in his favour as planning permission has already been given for the current design and any new design will need to pass another permission of planning.

Like I said, I still think that come 1st september the yanks will somehow still be here, they are slimy twats and it wouldnt surprise me in the slightest.

Tomorrow the Times is running with who are Huangs backers , they are CIC , access to assets of £332 Billion.

I hope we dont go mental and stupid in the market if he does get his backers in.
We dont deserve a buyer anymore than anyone else but for too long now this club has been run by self centered idiots and the people of Anfield and Walton Breck deserve better.

Well good luck in getting rid of the Yanks but you do realise you wont sell many replica shirts in Tibet if the the chinese deal does go through

Cheers but why do you say that ?
We sell the most prem shirts as it is anyway mate.

 

[slbsn]

Let me preceed this post by saying I have very little belief that LFC will be brought anytime soon. We have been messed about so much that it becomes difficult to have faith.

But basically Huang is still in the hunt, he denied making a bid but has confirmed his interest. The Yanks know that the deal Huang is proposing would leave them with very little or no profit.
They then send out their PR firms to try and find dirt on Huang to try and disuade the fans.

They (GG and TH) then put this Kirdi forward as it delays any potential sale to Huang as the banks have to look at any offer by law.
Kirdi is fronting a bid as is Huang. But Kirdi is very close to Foster Gillett and lives in Canada.
Kirdi also suggests that he has spoken to the americans and has agreed terms, the thing is though he needs to speak to BarCap not the yanks.
He has also said that he has a new stadium designed which is not going to go in his favour as planning permission has already been given for the current design and any new design will need to pass another permission of planning.

This pic was taken back in 2009. Its so transparent what is going on.

<a class="postlink" href="http://ca.news.yahoo.com/nphotos/FILE-George-Gillett-Yahya-Kirdi-and-Tom-Hicks-are-shown-in-Montreal-in-a-Nov-2009-handout-photo-A-Canadian-based-Syrian-businessman-leading-a-con/photo/04082010/2/photo/national-file-george-gillett-yahya-kirdi-tom-hicks-shown-montreal.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://ca.news.yahoo.com/nphotos/FILE-G ... treal.html</a>

Like I said, I still think that come 1st september the yanks will somehow still be here, they are slimy twats and it wouldnt surprise me in the slightest.

Tomorrow the Times is running with who are Huangs backers , they are CIC , access to assets of £332 Billion.

I hope we dont go mental and stupid in the market if he does get his backers in.
We dont deserve a buyer anymore than anyone else but for too long now this club has been run by self centered idiots and the people of Anfield and Walton Breck deserve better.

CICs deals: Infrastructure, energy, bank, oil, energy, oil, infrastructure, infrastructure, oil, energy, bank, bank, English football club in need of £300m before 2012, bank, oil, infrastructure, bank...

Can you spot the odd one out?

Not sure why the Times would run a story like this although i suppose that Tony Scouser guy who keeps slagging off City probably doesn't have the "inside" track since he published the "don't blame me" letter from the old regime....

 

[dick slexia]

Well good luck in getting rid of the Yanks but you do realise you wont sell many replica shirts in Tibet if the the chinese deal does go through

Cheers but why do you say that ?
We sell the most prem shirts as it is anyway mate.

Because the Chinese have forcibly occupied Tibet since the early sixties and their human rights record there is appalling other than that just a feeling I have

 

[shelovesyouyehyehyeh]

Let me preceed this post by saying I have very little belief that LFC will be brought anytime soon. We have been messed about so much that it becomes difficult to have faith.

But basically Huang is still in the hunt, he denied making a bid but has confirmed his interest. The Yanks know that the deal Huang is proposing would leave them with very little or no profit.
They then send out their PR firms to try and find dirt on Huang to try and disuade the fans.

They (GG and TH) then put this Kirdi forward as it delays any potential sale to Huang as the banks have to look at any offer by law.
Kirdi is fronting a bid as is Huang. But Kirdi is very close to Foster Gillett and lives in Canada.
Kirdi also suggests that he has spoken to the americans and has agreed terms, the thing is though he needs to speak to BarCap not the yanks.
He has also said that he has a new stadium designed which is not going to go in his favour as planning permission has already been given for the current design and any new design will need to pass another permission of planning.

This pic was taken back in 2009. Its so transparent what is going on.

<a class="postlink" href="http://ca.news.yahoo.com/nphotos/FILE-George-Gillett-Yahya-Kirdi-and-Tom-Hicks-are-shown-in-Montreal-in-a-Nov-2009-handout-photo-A-Canadian-based-Syrian-businessman-leading-a-con/photo/04082010/2/photo/national-file-george-gillett-yahya-kirdi-tom-hicks-shown-montreal.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://ca.news.yahoo.com/nphotos/FILE-G ... treal.html</a>

Like I said, I still think that come 1st september the yanks will somehow still be here, they are slimy twats and it wouldnt surprise me in the slightest.

Tomorrow the Times is running with who are Huangs backers , they are CIC , access to assets of £332 Billion.

I hope we dont go mental and stupid in the market if he does get his backers in.
We dont deserve a buyer anymore than anyone else but for too long now this club has been run by self centered idiots and the people of Anfield and Walton Breck deserve better.

CICs deals: Infrastructure, energy, bank, oil, energy, oil, infrastructure, infrastructure, oil, energy, bank, bank, English football club in need of £300m before 2012, bank, oil, infrastructure, bank...

Can you spot the odd one out?

Not sure why the Times would run a story like this although i suppose that Tony Scouser guy who keeps slagging off City probably doesn't have the "inside" track since he published the "don't blame me" letter from the old regime....

CIC’s investments are not limited to any particular sector, geography, or asset class and include equity, fixed income, and alternative assets.

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.china-inv.cn/cicen/about_cic/aboutcic_overview.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.china-inv.cn/cicen/about_cic ... rview.html</a>

Tony Barrett I presume ?
He is very well connected mate, I may not share his views on somethings but he's a good guy.<br /><br />-- Wed Aug 04, 2010 10:48 pm --<br /><br />

Cheers but why do you say that ?
We sell the most prem shirts as it is anyway mate.

Because the Chinese have forcibly occupied Tibet since the early sixties and their human rights record there is appalling other than that just a feeling I have

True but like I say we do pretty well on that front as it is.
Human rights ? Id suggest thats a step up on associates of George W Bush.

 

[slbsn]

I don't want to shatter the dreams of thousands of Liverpool fans but CICs Investment Policy couldn't apply less to this situation if they tried. CIC is about investing for FINANCIAL return not the plaything of the Chinese people. It won't take a Chinese maths genius to see through this "business plan".

As for Tony Evans, if he's knowledgeable or well connected about these matters he does a marvellous job of hiding it. At best, he's a sports hack and he should get one of his colleagues from the business team to help out. The crap I have heard from him on podcasts, talksport and elsewhere really make me sick.

Honestly, there may well be a buyer out there but i'd guess if there is, we haven't heard from him/them yet.