Discuss Pellegrini (Pt 2)

[M18CTID]

I can't believe people are calling for Pellegrini's head already. We had all this shit the other week after the goalless draw at Stoke. No doubt he could have set the team up differently last night and we might have put in a better performance but let's not forget that we were playing the treble-winning European champions who were insanely good last season and have since inherited Guardiola as manager. Fuck me, Bayern did Barca 7-0 over 2 legs last season so they were making mugs of better sides than us even before Pep pitched up there.

As I said, there are some things Pellegrini ought to have done differently last night but to say he's out of his depth and hasn't got a clue is complete bollocks. This is a coach that has gained a fantastic reputation in Spain down the years and based on all those plaudits I for one have faith that he'll come good. Of course, I appreciate that the nature of the game these days means he hasn't got a great deal of time to iron out any flaws but I'm fucked if I'm chucking in the towel yet.

the opposition is to an extent irrelevant, we are lauded as one of the top clubs in europe but we couldnt compete, we should not be losing in that manner to any team, no matter how good, they are the benchmark for us and we were shown to be severely lacking.

the reason fans are calling for his head is because it's quite obvious he is not the man for the job. no so much that he is out of his depth, he may well be a good coach but not for us.

he has won nothing, his greatest achievement is to get malaga out of the group stages in the champions league, that is hardly a successful record.

why would he suddenly bring success to city having failed to do so everywhere else he has managed ? what has changed ? nothing.

consider the signings, and dont give me any flannel about taking time to settle, fernandinho is brazillian, always a mistake to sign one of them. navas is fast but cant go past anyone, and too lightweight. jovetic is decent skill wise but too lightweight, have seen him in italy many times. negredo looks good. thats 3 out of 4 who have not enhanced the team, in fact they have taken us backwards as they have not effectively replaced the players they were brought in to replace and that is the fault of the manager.

so we are tactically unaware, with poor signings, that's down to the manager, no one else. that's why he carries the can for failure to acheive, perhaps give him a little more time, it's only fair, you never know but he is going to find it very tough indeed to make a success out of city.

I'll happily accept that there's no guarantee that Pellegrini will be a success at City but the bolded bit shows you're talking through your arse and have little to no idea about his background. To say his greatest achievement is getting Malaga out of the CL group stages is a total insult to what he did at Villarreal - are you not aware that in 2006 he took them to within a penalty kick of the Champions League Final? Are you not aware that in 2008 his Villarreal side finished 2nd in La Liga, 10 points ahead of Barcelona? Yes that's right, despite the fact that Spain's big two enjoy a huge advantage over every other team in La Liga he managed to trump the mighty Barcelona by a clear 10 points and in doing so he became the last manager to get a team other than Real Madrid and Barcelona a top-two finish in La Liga.

I suggest you actually do some research before spouting such ill-informed bollocks.

 

[Citizen in Pakistan]

I,ll back him all the way as I backed mancini,I wouldn't say he is out of depth but for him to remain so rigid with 442 is bit worrying tbh,we all wanted width to our play which was quite understandable but not at the cost of losing games so often,I think its time to have a tactics recheck,there is no doubting navas commitment but I don't think he should be a guaranteed starter week in week out,he could b a fantastic impact player but a starter every week I don't think so,its time negredo to get a permanent starting spot for the next 5 games atleast,his of the ball movement and workrate is one of the best I've seen

 

[Exeter Blue I am here]

Rabbit in the headlights? I don't think that's fair.

The manager obviously realized we were being outnumbered.

In the second half, he made Aguero play deeper to match their numbers in a 451. It was a noticeable position shift so it was the manager's doing.

It wasn't going to be that effective attacking wise because Kun can't distribute and carry the ball like a true AM. Now Pellers knows, I hope.

It helped marginally and we started the half well until the shock 2nd goal put the player's head in the sand.

Silva was the real game changer in that position but was only fit enough for 20 min according to Pellegrini.

Whilst I would lump the lion's share of the blame for last night's debacle on the manager's head, there's no question he was let down by some of his players as well. Hart, Clichy, Nasty and, inevitably, Dzeko, all turned in error strewn performances too

We are going to disagree badly for once: I blame the players far more than the manager. The formation was wrong but he is a manager that wants to let his players show their intellignece in games. Nothing stopped Dzeko or kun dropping deeper of their own accord in the first half for instance. I don't for one minute believe that the players not matching their opponents work rate was Pellegrini's doing: there was a reason he was working them so hard in preseason...

I do agree that he will need to be more pragmatic because some of his players may not be up to the task he requires of them and some may still be adjusting to what he wants. gleghorn was right on BBC manc when he said we were caught in between two styles. Problem for Pelle is that it is easier to teach people to park a bus than drive a formula one car.

Can't agree OB1. I would presume that having named Aguero and Dzeko in the starting line up, the manager would have intended they play as strikers (which is after all what they are), and briefed them to that end. If he'd wanted one of them to drop back and play as a de facto midfield player, then surely he would have communicated that to them from the bench. Do we want our players doing what the manager tells them, or what they feel like doing themselves? The latter is a recipe for chaos.
In point of fact, Aguero did then play a little deeper 2nd half, but it was still folly, as he is an out and out centre forward and not used to the role of midfield harrier. Milner and Silva were both on the bench and it was farcical for them to still be sat there after 74 minutes against a team managed by a man, who has built his reputation on cramming as many as 7 players into midfield roles and swamping the opposition. Last night was as clueless a performance from a City manager as I've seen in years

 

[moomba]

Way too early to be talking about sackings. Wins in league and cups over the next few weeks will see us looking good in three comps.

And we are capable of doing that.

 

[OB1]

Alex why are you talking about the team like this?

You have a gripe with manager and players. Why? Because they outlived Mancini? The same great manager that wasn't even an option for PSG who went with untested Blanc, and he's gone on to lead Galatasaray, massive.

Bayern slaughtered Barca 7-0, won a treble and strengthened. Their team is used to each other and they are a well balanced and cohesive unit. We are 12 months playing together off even competing evenly with them. Imo we need a true LW like Arda Turan. That aside I'm proud of City because so far we have blown hot and cold but still performed well. You can see what's starting to form and we will only get better.

Up to you what you say but I really do suggest gaining some perspective and having more optimism. You almost seem eager for us to fail to be deemed correct in your stance on manager and 'weak players'. Once we progress from CL groups then that's that. After that it's only fair to judge the league campaign once the outcome is clearer.

It's premature anf awfully negative at best. We win Pilzen and the two games v CSKA and we have 12 pts regardless of Bayern away. Had you offered me that in the summer I'd have bitten your hand off.

Ah, the support the team card.
Sorry Nip but a brain fart is a brain fart and Pellegrini had one last night.
For sure we probably wouldn't have won if we had tried something different, but it's looking to me that the new Emperor's clothes are becoming less opaque every day. Scolari at Chelsea all over again.

You know what's hilarious. The fact that the 'support your team' card was rammed down my bloody neck for last season.

The difference is last season was the same set of players in the first eleven the majority of the time. Now it's a team with at least two new players and a completely different emphasis of attack and formation. Right now we have to support the team.

Ancelotti isn't ripping up trees with Real. Jose with Chelsea and Moyes with United. Should they all sack their managers or should they wait until at least Xmas to make a better informed decision/opinion?

Imho I would have gone all out for Jose. Imo he's the dogs bollocks and I feel we HAVE what we wants in a team. We have a tight backline (last two seasons), a solid midfield with powerful players and we have potent offensive options. Instead the club wanted a more harmonious manager and Pellegrini is a quality manager anyway. Not Jose level but the level below for sure.

I had people calling me all things under the sun for rating Wenger over Mancini. Imo he would have been even more ideal than Jose but totally opposite of what we are now. His team now top the table and are better performing than their talent level. Who looks daft now (TCM?).

The man we should have had in charge was in the other dug out last night. I was a Pep in man long before becoming a Mancini outer. We are going to pay for the almighty cock-up of the summer of 2012 for some time but what is done is done. Everything is relatively but Pellegrini inherited a number of problems and now has to be given some time to put them right - and hopefully pave the way for Pep's English job.

 

[Berkovic_blue]

I tried educating you about this last season and it was a brick wall.

Again, Arsenal bought a new stadium and gambled on a smaller budget until it was paid off. Chelsea and City came along (the latter becoming the major problem) and that's made them struggle as Kroenke does not want to spend. Usmanov does but is being kept out.

That is the sole reason. PSG want Wenger. Madrid wanted Wenger. There's a reason Mancini wasn't wanted by them.......... Galatasafuckingray.......

I think we can sum up your argument as "Pellgrini is great because I hate Mancini".

Thanks for that

 

[OB1]

Whilst I would lump the lion's share of the blame for last night's debacle on the manager's head, there's no question he was let down by some of his players as well. Hart, Clichy, Nasty and, inevitably, Dzeko, all turned in error strewn performances too

We are going to disagree badly for once: I blame the players far more than the manager. The formation was wrong but he is a manager that wants to let his players show their intellignece in games. Nothing stopped Dzeko or kun dropping deeper of their own accord in the first half for instance. I don't for one minute believe that the players not matching their opponents work rate was Pellegrini's doing: there was a reason he was working them so hard in preseason...

I do agree that he will need to be more pragmatic because some of his players may not be up to the task he requires of them and some may still be adjusting to what he wants. gleghorn was right on BBC manc when he said we were caught in between two styles. Problem for Pelle is that it is easier to teach people to park a bus than drive a formula one car.

Can't agree OB1. I would presume that having named Aguero and Dzeko in the starting line up, the manager would have intended they play as strikers (which is after all what they are), and briefed them to that end. If he'd wanted one of them to drop back and play as a de facto midfield player, then surely he would have communicated that to them from the bench. Do we want our players doing what the manager tells them, or what they feel like doing themselves? The latter is a recipe for chaos.
In point of fact, Aguero did then play a little deeper 2nd half, but it was still folly, as he is an out and out centre forward and not used to the role of midfield harrier. Milner and Silva were both on the bench and it was farcical for them to still be sat there after 74 minutes against a team managed by a man, who has built his reputation on cramming as many as 7 players into midfield roles and swamping the opposition. Last night was as clueless a performance from a City manager as I've seen in years

Of course he intended them to play as strikers and of course there is a balance between players doing what they are told and using there intelligence on the pitch to deal with problems. My understanding is that Pelle, like Klopp, likes to trust his players.

I don't know what messages he sent onto the pitch as I wasn't withing ear shot or focusing on him but he did seem to be stood up a lot so I assume he did try and get some messages out there.

I would have started with a 4-3-3 and would have taken Dzeko off at half time, at the latest, and replaced him with a midfield player but there is only so much blame you can put on the formation; it did not stop the players doing themselves so little justice and it most assuredly did not make Hart blunder or Clichy go to sleep.

 

[kaz7]

I gave him credit when it was due but to see him sat there fiddling with his wedding ring whilst the team was being torn a new one was gutting when everyone but him could see the problem,this subbing by numbers is a really bad tactic,david looked like he could have done a bit longer but the other subs were very late,If we were doing better in the league i would not be bothered about the c/l but we are not,i said at the start his style of football would not work in the premier league and i'm sticking to it

 

[avoidconfusion]

So far he is absolutely no improvement over Mancini whatsoever. In fact Mancini managed to beat Bayern last year, so I doubt we would have been pummelled like this under Mancini.

Add to that our pathetic performances against Cardiff, Villa and Stoke and you really have to wonder why the fuck we replaced Mancini with this guy.

I thought he was "The Engineer" ? Why does he watch us get destroyed in midfield for 70 minutes until we are 0:3 down before he makes a change to our midfield setup?

 

[St Helens Blue (Exiled)]

I gave him credit when it was due but to see him sat there fiddling with his wedding ring whilst the team was being torn a new one was gutting when everyone but him could see the problem,this subbing by numbers is a really bad tactic,david looked like he could have done a bit longer but the other subs were very late,If we were doing better in the league i would not be bothered about the c/l but we are not,i said at the start his style of football would not work in the premier league and i'm sticking to it

Agree.We are haemaoraging goals at an alarming rate.