Discuss Pellegrini (Pt 2)

[nijinsky's fetlocks]

I feel the need to go off for a search and see if I'm still in touch with reality?

...or you could just climb out of Billy's orifice and take a reality check.
This isn't about some facile settling of old scores and point scoring.
It is about what is best for Manchester City Football Club.
And right now that isn't having a clueless gaffer who looks increasingly lost with every passing game.

Is that with patience and stability or without, I'm getting confused now?

Get up, leave your seat, and walk out of the mod room.
Your confusion will decrease exponentially.

 

[Anonymous]

Is that with patience and stability or without, I'm getting confused now?

Mate ... you're not paying attention ... patience and stability are sooooooooooooooo last season. This season's en vogue look is knee jerk and uninformed.

 

[LoveCity]

Maybe because Hiddink isn't anything special and his decent 6 month stint at Chelsea is his only real success (FA Cup) of note for over a decade? And did you watch his Anzhi team? I did a few times... they were slow and turgid and with a bottomless wallet finished 3rd in the Russian league and failed to qualify for the Champions League. Pellegrini has been a more impressive coach in the last 10 years. Grass is greener syndrome is in effect...

Over the last decade he has achieved the following:
Got South Korea to the World Cup Semi final.
Won his 4th, 5th and 6th Dutch title with PSV making him the most decorated Dutch manager in history.
Got PSV to the 2005 CL Semi final, only going out on away goals to AC Milan.
Got Russia to the Euro's semi final.
Qualified Australia for their first World Cup in 32 years.
Took Anzi to the semi finals of the EL, the best European performance in their history.
Won the FA Cup with Chelsea.
Took Chelsea to the CL semi finals, and only lost out to a controversial 94th minute goal to Barcelona. They went out on away goals.
Lost only one match in charge of Chelsea.

But aside from his achievments, he's not abraisive, he's not a pushover. He's experienced at dealing with big players. Adaptable to a variety of systems. Great record in Europe and England. 2 year deal he's be absolutely ideal until we can go all out for Klopp or Pep.

Danamy / LoveCity - your response?

Hiddink has looked a spent force to me. His last two jobs (Turkey, Anzhi) haven't been successes, despite the above guy's attempt to present his Anzhi spell as a positive. Europa League semis he says - which is a lie as they were knocked out by Newcastle in the Round of 16, but even so their Europa League participation came after finishing 3rd in the Russian league (massively weaker than the English league) with the biggest budget when the expectation had been Champions League.

Anzhi's best European performance ever he says - it was only their second time ever in Europe, because they were a nothing club with only 5 seasons in the Russian top flight before the financial investment.

While looking at Hiddink's history, he conveniently ignores his recent failings such as underachieving at wealthy Anzhi and failing to get Turkey into Euro 2012 and resigning after a thrashing from Croatia.

Chelsea was his last good spell yet why haven't they gone calling for him since when they have changed managers so many times? Probably because they have been assessing his performances since he left his 6-month spell there and have seen his deterioration as a coach as the new wave of managers become more relevant.

Hiddink would not be an upgrade on Pellegrini. Pellegrini has been a more relevant club coach just recently. Where has the demand from top clubs been for Hiddink recently? Pellegrini had PSG, Porto and City offering him a job, while being behind only Pep on Bayern's shortlist.

 

[cleavers]

Winning is the best cure and, as you say, it can be a bit chicken and egg. However, getting the players to believe in his system and showing more belief in themselves will help; again winning helps with that. Last night, I do think Pellegrini got things wrong and that won't help the players' belief but, and I've said this before, if Pellegrini has an approach that he believes in and has proven to work in the past, chopping and changing in response to every setback, will show a lack of faith in his own methods and is no way to get his players to believe.

Some interesting sub plots in there.

You want the players to believe in MP's system.
He played his system last night I think you'd agree ?
His system was an utter flop last night, it would be hard to disagree ?
His system is proven to work in the past, so you want him to stick with it ?

I'm not being difficult, but its this 'there is only one sytstem' thing that probably worries most of us, most of all, it seems to have worked against Newcastle, United, Plzen, and to a degree Villa, barring the individual f*ck ups costing us the game, but its has definitely failed against Cardiff, and Hull in the PL, and last night against Bayern. The worrying bit, is his lack of flexibility when its clearly going wrong, last night changes should have been made after 20 minutes, it was obvious to everyone in the stadium.

Different games need flexibility in systems, both from one game to another and even within games. At Villa for instance, having been so dominant, and having seen them equalise, and us go back in front, why not just make sure of the result. Last night watching 6 on 2 in midfield, why not change things, to at least stem the tide ?

I'm still pretty neutral on MP, but I want to see more flexibility in this so called system, I'm not sure what our two fullbacks were meant to be doing last night, but whatever it was it failed miserably, they neither helped the 2 centrebacks, as they were frequently drawn out of position to cover them, they didn't help the midfielders, a couple of extra bodies would have been useful, and they didn't get forward to help supply our two strikers either. Yes Bayern were good, but there is no way their 11 should have dominted our 11 so comprehensively, and that was down to the system failing badly from the 8th minute, it looked clueless, and the team rudderless.

 

[nijinsky's fetlocks]

Is that with patience and stability or without, I'm getting confused now?

Mate ... you're not paying attention ... patience and stability are sooooooooooooooo last season. This season's en vogue look is knee jerk and uninformed.

Sorry Billy - we just pay our money and go every week, which explains how uninformed we are.
Clearly you have a far clearer view from your Parisian bedsit watching on cable.
Please don't try and patronise match-going blues.
Otherwise I shall be compelled to point out that you are a mere tourist, and that would never do.

 

[Danamy]

...or you could just climb out of Billy's orifice and take a reality check.
This isn't about some facile settling of old scores and point scoring.
It is about what is best for Manchester City Football Club.
And right now that isn't having a clueless gaffer who looks increasingly lost with every passing game.

Is that with patience and stability or without, I'm getting confused now?

Get up, leave your seat, and walk out of the mod room.
Your confusion will decrease exponentially.

You don't mean that do you, I'm actually one of the mods that don't mind you as a poster? ;-)

 

[nijinsky's fetlocks]

Is that with patience and stability or without, I'm getting confused now?

Get up, leave your seat, and walk out of the mod room.
Your confusion will decrease exponentially.

You don't mean that do you, I'm actually one of the mods that don't mind you as a poster? ;-)

I'm only jesting - clearly you get my humour.
And as the only mod who has not banned me, I have to keep you onside!

 

[Anonymous]

Is that with patience and stability or without, I'm getting confused now?

Mate ... you're not paying attention ... patience and stability are sooooooooooooooo last season. This season's en vogue look is knee jerk and uninformed.

Sorry Billy - we just pay our money and go every week, which explains how uninformed we are.
Clearly you have a far clearer view from your Parisian bedsit watching on cable.
Please don't try and patronise match-going blues.
Otherwise I shall be compelled to point out that you are a mere tourist, and that would never do.

Mate, if you manage to vacate the prime real estate TGR is taking up in your arsehole, I'll be sure to write you a cheque too ... I know how cheap your validation is so I'm sure I'd end up saving money too!

 

[BobKowalski]

Maybe because Hiddink isn't anything special and his decent 6 month stint at Chelsea is his only real success (FA Cup) of note for over a decade? And did you watch his Anzhi team? I did a few times... they were slow and turgid and with a bottomless wallet finished 3rd in the Russian league and failed to qualify for the Champions League. Pellegrini has been a more impressive coach in the last 10 years. Grass is greener syndrome is in effect...

So why didn't your fellow mod say that?

I don't know but Hiddink isn't the answer to any question. There is no 'quick fix' solution out there even if we do need a 'quick fix', which we may not yet. A lot of Pellegrini teams have a history or starting slowly then becoming fantastic once everyone adapts to his system.

I have asked before but what exactly is this system that seemingly takes a long time for players to adapt to? Why and how is it so radically different from our previous system or style of play? How is it that Pep manages to change BM's style of play successfully - a style of play that has a RB running the midfield - within the same time period as Pellers has had at City? For that matter how has Martinez managed to change Everton's style of play from the dour fare under Moyes to a more pleasing and, so far, effective style of play with a squad that has had two late loan signings grafted onto it whereas we signed our players early and took them on an extensive pre season so that everything would bed in for the start of the season?

Everyone talks about Pellers style of play as if it were some obscure religious tome which requires a degree of blind faith that salvation will be upon us at some unspecified point in the future. Before the season started I swear I was told that it would be fluid 433 with us needing 2 main line strikers at most and it would be like Barca. Then we retained and bought strikers and now we have to play 2 of them and its 442 which is fine as long as the opposition does the same and aren't as good as us and even the Pellergrini faithful are baffled as this is nothing like the 'glory' days at Villerreal or Malaga. Is it in truth Pellers system or F&T dictating the preferred system and style of play?

I have no faith in Pellers so I can't just do the 'it will be ok trust in MP' as I have nothing on which to base that faith. I don't see it on the pitch and even when we do play well I know its because the opposition is putting us under zero pressure and when they do we collapse into a soggy mess.

I am not looking for a 'quick fix' I just want us to retain the foundations of the work done over the last 3 years and build an even better team on top of them. Just as BM are doing under Pep.

Enlighten me.

 

[ballinio]

The crazy, ironic, bizarre, stupid, silly........just pick a word.......thing about it all is the people that were crying out for stability last season for the club are now wanting the managers head within one and a half months of the season?

That's what I'm finding hard to get my head around, is this shit real?

He wont get sacked yet it would be too embarrassing for the club , they`ll wait until we finish 6th or 7th at the end of the season then he`ll be gone, that's if we manage 6th or 7th

Do you really think we will finish that low in the table?

I do , seriously, Pellegrini was supposed to be an upgrade on Mancini, at least that's what we were sold, well, we are not faster, we are not scoring more, we are not working harder & his tactics are leaving us wide open. we were very hard to beat now any team has a chance against us as the total collapses v Cardiff & Villa will have shown.