Discuss Pellegrini (Pt 2)

[tolmie's hairdoo]

Lets be honest the fans are never going to be cheering his name Tolmie, he hasnt got the character or personality to get that. He is boring and appears uninspiring to us and from what i see so far to the squad as well. I have seen several managers in my time and follow City home and away and i have a bad feeling about this one as i did with Coppell etc. Everyone around me even drunk halfwits were saying we needed a man in midfield after 10 minutes gone. It was shocking management there is no getting away from it. And the Cardiff, Stoke, Villa away trips were abysmal too. Ill give him time i wont boo i never have but i dont see this ending well.

We need a winner, this guy isnt.

Fuck me could you imagine if we had got Pep? Was extremely jealous to see him in the opposition dugout on Wednesday. What a manager he is. Worth waiting 2 years for.

Whilst I agree that Pep is worth waiting for, and I believe we will, to compare Pellegrini to Coppell is taking this whole character assassination a little too far?

What character and personality did Mancini have? He is the coldest fish you would ever have the misfortune to meet.

It's not about chanting his name from minute one, that invariably comes when you put something tangible on the sideboard.

What audible support did you ever hear for Ferguson or Wenger.

In actual fact, it wasn't that long ago the South Stand disgraced themselves by screaming at Mancini, 'you don't know what your doing' because he subbed Bellamy against Birmingham.

He was bang on that day. Most on here will know I did not hold Mancini in the same affection as most did, but that was another example of sheep getting carried away, and exerting unnecessary pressure at the time.

There seems to be plenty of revisionism going on here of late. I never heard any affection towards Mark Hughes, at any time during his tenure.

Our fans have been the major influence in getting rid of managers over the last 30 years, albeit, Swales was more than complicit, but a convenient scapegoat all the same.

Pellegrini just needs to get on with the job and we need to let him.

Just as Mancini was allowed to.

It'll come good, it has to.

Ah the 'cold fish' argument. And no doubt true. So incidentally is Obama. And Blair. But they can all work a crowd. Its a different skill. A politicians skill. In many ways its quite calculated like wearing the scarf - hell he even had Khaldoon and Cook wearing it. Ian Herbert said as much when comparing the Mancini at the Presser all charm and smiles to the private Mancini a very different character. You should never confuse the two or underestimate the power of the public face. Its as much about image as anything else these days.

Whilst I agree, the reply was merely with regards the assumption from some posters they have concluded Pellegrini, weighed, measured and found wanting.

Pellegrini clearly portrays a much more fatherly figure, and the players have spoken of this.

But this is the same guy who was absolutely ruthless at Villarreal, basically telling the star man, Riquelme, to rot in the reserves.

Like I say, don't think enough time has elapsed to deliver a verdict on either him as a person or a manager.

 

[TheMightyQuinn]

I'll ask again.

Once the system is fully implemented and all the players know it like the back of their hands, how will this change us being outnumbered in midfield?

The problem Vs Bayern wasn't that we didn't play our system very well, it was that the system itself didn't work against how Bayern were lined up.

I fail to see how 6/12 months will change things so that our 2 man midfield will suddenly start battering 3/4 men midfields. Ferguson was still making this mistake in his 20th year or so, CL wise at least.

I'm not slagging MP, I have no real feelings either way at this stage.

I don't expect the system to be perfect after a few games.

I do expect a manager to be able to change things in game though to prevent us being over run.

No shame in losing to a side like Bayern but the fact we didn't even get in the game until 70 odd mins is unforgivable.

This is where i also get stumped and end up scratching my head.

There's no set system, any manager should be flexible enough to change the system to match or counteract the opposition, horses for courses.

I'm baffled and currently feel cheated at the moment, MP is better than what our current form is reflecting, i'm confident he'll turn it around.

The suggestion seems to be that once we know the system, we'll batter opponents.

Doesn't address how we'll counter being outnumbered in midfield.

I'm not asking much, I'd expect the same from Alan Ball or Mark Hughes.

Some things will take time to click but being outnumbered in midfield isn't one of them. That's a problem that can be rectified during a game. You don't need a year of training to do that.

 

[OB1]

Although I'm reserving judgement on MP, none of my reservations have anything to do with his touchline demeanour.

I have never been impressed by managers jumping about on the touchline, even Mancini of whom I was/am a big fan. I often used to think that he'd better if he'd calmed down, sat in the dug out and thought about what was needed to be done. The problem with MP was that he did the thinking without taking the action.

I may be wrong, but I do recall Pellegrini saying something in recent months that he does not really attempt to meddle with his teams during a game situation, which raised eyebrows at the time?

Having insisted the work had already been done on the training ground, during the week, on opponents and the need to trust his players?

That would be a worry.

I mentioned this last night. That was the impression I had before he started. It's an approach that won't always work but if you get the right players, that might not matter in the long run i.e. it will cost you upon occasion but not so often that you fail to achieve your ultimate goals.

It's not exactly the approach that I favour but. if he gets us where we want to go, I'll take the bumps along the way.<br /><br />-- Fri Oct 04, 2013 12:20 pm --<br /><br />

Whilst I agree that Pep is worth waiting for, and I believe we will, to compare Pellegrini to Coppell is taking this whole character assassination a little too far?

What character and personality did Mancini have? He is the coldest fish you would ever have the misfortune to meet.

It's not about chanting his name from minute one, that invariably comes when you put something tangible on the sideboard.

What audible support did you ever hear for Ferguson or Wenger.

In actual fact, it wasn't that long ago the South Stand disgraced themselves by screaming at Mancini, 'you don't know what your doing' because he subbed Bellamy against Birmingham.

He was bang on that day. Most on here will know I did not hold Mancini in the same affection as most did, but that was another example of sheep getting carried away, and exerting unnecessary pressure at the time.

There seems to be plenty of revisionism going on here of late. I never heard any affection towards Mark Hughes, at any time during his tenure.

Our fans have been the major influence in getting rid of managers over the last 30 years, albeit, Swales was more than complicit, but a convenient scapegoat all the same.

Pellegrini just needs to get on with the job and we need to let him.

Just as Mancini was allowed to.

It'll come good, it has to.

Ah the 'cold fish' argument. And no doubt true. So incidentally is Obama. And Blair. But they can all work a crowd. Its a different skill. A politicians skill. In many ways its quite calculated like wearing the scarf - hell he even had Khaldoon and Cook wearing it. Ian Herbert said as much when comparing the Mancini at the Presser all charm and smiles to the private Mancini a very different character. You should never confuse the two or underestimate the power of the public face. Its as much about image as anything else these days.

Whilst I agree, the reply was merely with regards the assumption from some posters they have concluded Pellegrini, weighed, measured and found wanting.

Pellegrini clearly portrays a much more fatherly figure, and the players have spoken of this.

But this is the same guy who was absolutely ruthless at Villarreal, basically telling the star man, Riquelme, to rot in the reserves.

Like I say, don't think enough time has elapsed to deliver a verdict on either him as a person or a manager.

I actually feel as though I've seen him exuding a lot of confidence in what he is trying to do but we should not assume that what we see in public is exactly the same as what the players see.

 

[BobKowalski]

Whilst I agree that Pep is worth waiting for, and I believe we will, to compare Pellegrini to Coppell is taking this whole character assassination a little too far?

What character and personality did Mancini have? He is the coldest fish you would ever have the misfortune to meet.

It's not about chanting his name from minute one, that invariably comes when you put something tangible on the sideboard.

What audible support did you ever hear for Ferguson or Wenger.

In actual fact, it wasn't that long ago the South Stand disgraced themselves by screaming at Mancini, 'you don't know what your doing' because he subbed Bellamy against Birmingham.

He was bang on that day. Most on here will know I did not hold Mancini in the same affection as most did, but that was another example of sheep getting carried away, and exerting unnecessary pressure at the time.

There seems to be plenty of revisionism going on here of late. I never heard any affection towards Mark Hughes, at any time during his tenure.

Our fans have been the major influence in getting rid of managers over the last 30 years, albeit, Swales was more than complicit, but a convenient scapegoat all the same.

Pellegrini just needs to get on with the job and we need to let him.

Just as Mancini was allowed to.

It'll come good, it has to.

Ah the 'cold fish' argument. And no doubt true. So incidentally is Obama. And Blair. But they can all work a crowd. Its a different skill. A politicians skill. In many ways its quite calculated like wearing the scarf - hell he even had Khaldoon and Cook wearing it. Ian Herbert said as much when comparing the Mancini at the Presser all charm and smiles to the private Mancini a very different character. You should never confuse the two or underestimate the power of the public face. Its as much about image as anything else these days.

What like fighting with players in training? ;-)

Training isn't public..or at least it shouldn't be. Its like O'Neill taking out one of his players at Villa or Pulis grappling naked in the showers with Beatie or whoever it was. Somethings you just don't want to see. Especially Pulis naked.<br /><br />-- Fri Oct 04, 2013 1:24 pm --<br /><br />

Whilst I agree that Pep is worth waiting for, and I believe we will, to compare Pellegrini to Coppell is taking this whole character assassination a little too far?

What character and personality did Mancini have? He is the coldest fish you would ever have the misfortune to meet.

It's not about chanting his name from minute one, that invariably comes when you put something tangible on the sideboard.

What audible support did you ever hear for Ferguson or Wenger.

In actual fact, it wasn't that long ago the South Stand disgraced themselves by screaming at Mancini, 'you don't know what your doing' because he subbed Bellamy against Birmingham.

He was bang on that day. Most on here will know I did not hold Mancini in the same affection as most did, but that was another example of sheep getting carried away, and exerting unnecessary pressure at the time.

There seems to be plenty of revisionism going on here of late. I never heard any affection towards Mark Hughes, at any time during his tenure.

Our fans have been the major influence in getting rid of managers over the last 30 years, albeit, Swales was more than complicit, but a convenient scapegoat all the same.

Pellegrini just needs to get on with the job and we need to let him.

Just as Mancini was allowed to.

It'll come good, it has to.

Ah the 'cold fish' argument. And no doubt true. So incidentally is Obama. And Blair. But they can all work a crowd. Its a different skill. A politicians skill. In many ways its quite calculated like wearing the scarf - hell he even had Khaldoon and Cook wearing it. Ian Herbert said as much when comparing the Mancini at the Presser all charm and smiles to the private Mancini a very different character. You should never confuse the two or underestimate the power of the public face. Its as much about image as anything else these days.

Whilst I agree, the reply was merely with regards the assumption from some posters they have concluded Pellegrini, weighed, measured and found wanting.

Pellegrini clearly portrays a much more fatherly figure, and the players have spoken of this.

But this is the same guy who was absolutely ruthless at Villarreal, basically telling the star man, Riquelme, to rot in the reserves.

Like I say, don't think enough time has elapsed to deliver a verdict on either him as a person or a manager.

Fair enough.

 

[Danamy]

I'll ask again.

Once the system is fully implemented and all the players know it like the back of their hands, how will this change us being outnumbered in midfield?

The problem Vs Bayern wasn't that we didn't play our system very well, it was that the system itself didn't work against how Bayern were lined up.

I fail to see how 6/12 months will change things so that our 2 man midfield will suddenly start battering 3/4 men midfields. Ferguson was still making this mistake in his 20th year or so, CL wise at least.

I'm not slagging MP, I have no real feelings either way at this stage.

I don't expect the system to be perfect after a few games.

I do expect a manager to be able to change things in game though to prevent us being over run.

No shame in losing to a side like Bayern but the fact we didn't even get in the game until 70 odd mins is unforgivable.

This is where i also get stumped and end up scratching my head.

There's no set system, any manager should be flexible enough to change the system to match or counteract the opposition, horses for courses.

I'm baffled and currently feel cheated at the moment, MP is better than what our current form is reflecting, i'm confident he'll turn it around.

The suggestion seems to be that once we know the system, we'll batter opponents.

Doesn't address how we'll counter being outnumbered in midfield.

I'm not asking much, I'd expect the same from Alan Ball or Mark Hughes.

Some things will take time to click but being outnumbered in midfield isn't one of them. That's a problem that can be rectified during a game. You don't need a year of training to do that.

I agree

It wouldn't of taken much to revert to 4-2-3-1 during the game and that would've helped us at least retain the ball longer than two passes?

 

[St Helens Blue (Exiled)]

Might be booze blues from last night's shenanigans but I've got that feeling I had when Leslie was in charge, that it won't end well. Hope we steamroller Everton but it's going to be a very tough one.

If it's true then the out'ers will get their wish and Pellegrini really will be gone by Christmas. Be interesting to see how long the next guy gets ...

No-We want what is best for the club (for the record Billy-I do not want him out-I want him to sort the team-what he gets paid for)

 

[Didsbury Dave]

Although I'm reserving judgement on MP, none of my reservations have anything to do with his touchline demeanour.

I have never been impressed by managers jumping about on the touchline, even Mancini of whom I was/am a big fan. I often used to think that he'd better if he'd calmed down, sat in the dug out and thought about what was needed to be done. The problem with MP was that he did the thinking without taking the action.

I may be wrong, but I do recall Pellegrini saying something in recent months that he does not really attempt to meddle with his teams during a game situation, which raised eyebrows at the time?

Having insisted the work had already been done on the training ground, during the week, on opponents and the need to trust his players?

That would be a worry.

I mentioned this last night. That was the impression I had before he started. It's an approach that won't always work but if you get the right players, that might not matter in the long run i.e. it will cost you upon occasion but not so often that you fail to achieve your ultimate goals.

It's not exactly the approach that I favour but. if he gets us where we want to go, I'll take the bumps along the way.

-- Fri Oct 04, 2013 12:20 pm --

Ah the 'cold fish' argument. And no doubt true. So incidentally is Obama. And Blair. But they can all work a crowd. Its a different skill. A politicians skill. In many ways its quite calculated like wearing the scarf - hell he even had Khaldoon and Cook wearing it. Ian Herbert said as much when comparing the Mancini at the Presser all charm and smiles to the private Mancini a very different character. You should never confuse the two or underestimate the power of the public face. Its as much about image as anything else these days.

Whilst I agree, the reply was merely with regards the assumption from some posters they have concluded Pellegrini, weighed, measured and found wanting.

Pellegrini clearly portrays a much more fatherly figure, and the players have spoken of this.

But this is the same guy who was absolutely ruthless at Villarreal, basically telling the star man, Riquelme, to rot in the reserves.

Like I say, don't think enough time has elapsed to deliver a verdict on either him as a person or a manager.

I actually feel as though I've seen him exuding a lot of confidence in what he is trying to do but we should not assume that what we see in public is exactly the same as what the players see.

That's the impression I get. That he feels that a system change to accommodate the opponents is an admission of defeat or a lack of confidence.

I don't agree. If it needs changing you bloody change it, and there's no shame in that at all when playing the European champions.

I hope he has learnt a lesson from Wednesday, like his predeccesor eventually did regarding the 352. It was a bad, bad night for him but I'm still confident he has what it takes to get it right.

Radical and reactionary fans will write him off after a game like that, it's the nature of the beast, but he will be given time to implement his ideas and fickle fans turn on a sixpence with a result or two either way.

 

[kenzie115]

Wednesday was the first time I’ve doubted him, we could all see the problem, yet he did nothing. Even if he’d have made a different change to the one I was thinking of and it didn’t work, at least it’d have shown he understood there was a problem and tried to fix it. I buried my head in my hands when he subbed Dzeko for Negredo, it just seemed so stupid.

I’ve posted before that my belief was we’d be using 4-3-3 this season and when the season started and we were using 4-2-2-2 I thought he might have just been giving the players a bit more time to get used to 4-3-3 in training. However, we’re in October and there’s still no sign of the 4-3-3, it’s becoming rather disappointing.

 

[St Helens Blue (Exiled)]

Why do I feel really down about City at the moment?

 

[OB1]

That's the impression I get. That he feels that a system change to accommodate the opponents is an admission of defeat or a lack of confidence.

I don't agree. If it needs changing you bloody change it, and there's no shame in that at all when playing the European champions.

I hope he has learnt a lesson from Wednesday, like his predeccesor eventually did regarding the 352. It was a bad, bad night for him but I'm still confident he has what it takes to get it right.

Radical and reactionary fans will write him off after a game like that, it's the nature of the beast, but he will be given time to implement his ideas and fickle fans turn on a sixpence with a result or two either way.

Agreed.

It's not like Pellegrini has never used 4-2-3-1. He did try to get Aguero to sit deeper on Lahm. I suppose that at one goal down, he wanted two strikers to try and get goals. Who knows what would have happened if Clichy had done his job? The game was pretty much up then so maybe Pelle decided to let it run? Whatever. He called it wrong and it won't be the last mistake he makes at City.