Discuss Pellegrini (Pt 2)

[Didsbury Dave]

That's the impression I get. That he feels that a system change to accommodate the opponents is an admission of defeat or a lack of confidence.

I don't agree. If it needs changing you bloody change it, and there's no shame in that at all when playing the European champions.

I hope he has learnt a lesson from Wednesday, like his predeccesor eventually did regarding the 352. It was a bad, bad night for him but I'm still confident he has what it takes to get it right.

Radical and reactionary fans will write him off after a game like that, it's the nature of the beast, but he will be given time to implement his ideas and fickle fans turn on a sixpence with a result or two either way.

Agreed.

It's not like Pellegrini has never used 4-2-3-1. He did try to get Aguero to sit deeper on Lahm. I suppose that at one goal down, he wanted two strikers to try and get goals. Who knows what would have happened if Clichy had done his job? The game was pretty much up then so maybe Pelle decided to let it run? Whatever. He called it wrong and it won't be the last mistake he makes at City.

I'd say he took an enormous gamble: that if we could get playing at 1-0 down at the beginning of the second half, we could rattle them. We came out fired up and actually had a decent (ish) 10 minute spell before their second goal deflated us. That was the point he got the subs ready to go on, but they suddenly had a five minute spell of possession which culminated in their third. All that time the subs were stood waiting to go on.

I am not excusing this: as the world and his wife have already stated, the logical thing to do was to change things in the first half to get hold of the midfield. But I don't think this man is an idiot who couldn't see the problem. I think he was too bold. Recklessly bold. But if, and it is an if, this boldness starts to pay dividends in goals and domination, like it did against Man United, and the player's grow in confidence with it, it could be the thing that defines City.

This season is not over. It's barely begun. We are still in all competitions. I'm still sitting back and watching how this thing develops before casting judgement. He will certainly get the season, and rightly so, and we will have a chance over that period to really evaluate. I think that too many people on this forum (most with historical axes to grind) have played their cards way too early on this.

 

[BluessinceHydeRoad]

I think we're all going round in circles, I know I am as I try to stop going over the game time after time. When Pellegrini got the job here he told us all about playing attacking, high risk football and playing it for the whole 90 minutes whatever the state of the game. I watched his last game with Malaga at Barca and saw them ship 4 in the first 20-30 minutes to a Barca side (not Guardiola's admittedly) which cut straight through his undermanned midfield, but thought that our better players would cope better. Before the BM game I thought back to those teams who had beaten Guardiola before (Chelsea, Madrid, BM notably) and they did not compete for control of midfield, but deprived Pep's Barca of space to move into in the box, and counter from wide and deep with pace. Robben was brilliant for Bayern in the game against Barca as well. Then I saw the team Pellegrini had picked and it seemed tailor made for the fate Malaga had met at Barca's hands. It was similar, and he sat back and watched it, and did nothing. Then he explained simply, "We played badly; they played very well". He hadn't changed anything because "We play differently."

Is that the quality of management he was employed to bring to the club? Is that management at all?

 

[Anonymous]

That's the impression I get. That he feels that a system change to accommodate the opponents is an admission of defeat or a lack of confidence.

I don't agree. If it needs changing you bloody change it, and there's no shame in that at all when playing the European champions.

I hope he has learnt a lesson from Wednesday, like his predeccesor eventually did regarding the 352. It was a bad, bad night for him but I'm still confident he has what it takes to get it right.

Radical and reactionary fans will write him off after a game like that, it's the nature of the beast, but he will be given time to implement his ideas and fickle fans turn on a sixpence with a result or two either way.

Agreed.

It's not like Pellegrini has never used 4-2-3-1. He did try to get Aguero to sit deeper on Lahm. I suppose that at one goal down, he wanted two strikers to try and get goals. Who knows what would have happened if Clichy had done his job? The game was pretty much up then so maybe Pelle decided to let it run? Whatever. He called it wrong and it won't be the last mistake he makes at City.

I'd say he took an enormous gamble: that if we could get playing at 1-0 down at the beginning of the second half, we could rattle them. We came out fired up and actually had a decent (ish) 10 minute spell before their second goal deflated us. That was the point he got the subs ready to go on, but they suddenly had a five minute spell of possession which culminated in their third. All that time the subs were stood waiting to go on.

I am not excusing this: as the world and his wife have already stated, the logical thing to do was to change things in the first half to get hold of the midfield. But I don't think this man is an idiot who couldn't see the problem. I think he was too bold. Recklessly bold. But if, and it is an if, this boldness starts to pay dividends in goals and domination, like it did against Man United, and the player's grow in confidence with it, it could be the thing that defines City.

This season is not over. It's barely begun. We are still in all competitions. I'm still sitting back and watching how this thing develops before casting judgement. He will certainly get the season, and rightly so, and we will have a chance over that period to really evaluate. I think that too many people on this forum (most with historical axes to grind) have played their cards way too early on this.

What d'you reckon to this DD that I posted a page back.

One thing I'll say about playing 433 ... IMO we don't have the quality of players required in wide attacking areas to play that way regularly. I posted this elsewhere but if you look across Europe at the top teams their wide options are head and shoulders better than ours. Reus, Gotze, Robben, Ribery, Di Maria, Bale, Ronaldo, Lucas Moura, Lavezzi, Messi, Pedro, Sanchez ... IMO all those players walk into our best XI in a 433. We only have two orthodox wide forwards in Jovetic and Navas. The rest of our attacking midfield or forward players would be square'ish pegs in round'ish holes playing that system.

Don't get me wrong though, not at all trying to justify not sticking another body in midfield against Bayern ... but talking more about the larger context of why we seem to be playing the same relatively narrow 4222 we did under Mancini rather than the kind of 433 Barca/Bayern/Madrid play.

 

[FantasyIreland]

I'm with you, feel very let down by City but this manager mainly

Fucking hell lads,grow a pair,none of us are happy with our start but give the man,his name is Pellegrini by the way........at least a chance to prove himself.

When's he going to become the Chilean?

As long as he puts City first and doesn't start harming the club he wont.

 

[moomba]

Was wondering what it would take to turn around opinions on Pellegrini.

Our next 6 are Everton (h), West Ham (a), CSKA (a - champions league), Chelsea (a), Newcastle (a - league cup), Norwich (h).

Win all 6 and we'll be top or close to top of the premier league, looking very good for progression to the group stages of the champions league and through to the quarter finals of the league cup. OK its a big ask to win all 6 on current form but would anyone be unhappy with Pellegrini if we can get ourselves into that sort of position in three comps?

 

[Alex B]

Those next 5 games could define Pellegrinis era at City. Huge games and the away form needs addressing sharpish. Has to stop with the 2 out and out strikers it isnt working. Negredo and Silva for me vs Everton

 

[M18CTID]

Just out of interest for all those criticising Pellegrini and saying he's clueless/out of his depth due to the way he set us up against Bayern, does anyone have any idea what formation he played in Malaga's 2 games against Dortmund last season? And what formation Dortmund played too? I'd love to know what this supposedly tactically clueless manager did to get his Malaga side - containing generally inferior players to those at his disposal at City - within a blatantly offside injury time goal from a Champions League semi-final spot.

 

[cibaman]

.

Like I say, don't think enough time has elapsed to deliver a verdict on either him as a person or a manager.

Its hard to dispute that he hasn't had enough time.

The trouble is I can't remember a City manager ever personally having a match as bad as he did on Wednesday. There probably are numerous instances but none that I can recall.

We've obviously had far worse managers, at least 95% of them. And we've had managers make barmier decisions, playing the keeper at centre forward, keeping the ball in the corner etc. But I can't remember seeing a City manager's reputation take such a battering during the course of a single game in the same way

If we win the league, qualify for the CL knock out stage, this game might be forgotten. But if we have a mixed season I suspect this game will undermine him, keep being brought up.

 

[BluessinceHydeRoad]

Just out of interest for all those criticising Pellegrini and saying he's clueless/out of his depth due to the way he set us up against Bayern, does anyone have any idea what formation he played in Malaga's 2 games against Dortmund last season? And what formation Dortmund played too? I'd love to know what this supposedly tactically clueless manager did to get his Malaga side - containing generally inferior players to those at his disposal at City - within a blatantly offside injury time goal from a Champions League semi-final spot.

The game in Malaga was pretty similar to our home game with Dortmund: Dortmund made a hatful of chances (more than they did at the Etihad if I remember correctly) but didn't take any. Our papers were asking how Malaga gor away with it - as those in Spain were! In Dortmund he played a rather more solid midfield and stopped Dortmund running through them. In Spain he didn't change anything in the whole 90 minutes, but got away with it thanks to the Germans' poor finishing.

 

[Falastur]

Was wondering what it would take to turn around opinions on Pellegrini.

Our next 6 are Everton (h), West Ham (a), CSKA (a - champions league), Chelsea (a), Newcastle (a - league cup), Norwich (h).

Win all 6 and we'll be top or close to top of the premier league, looking very good for progression to the group stages of the champions league and through to the quarter finals of the league cup. OK its a big ask to win all 6 on current form but would anyone be unhappy with Pellegrini if we can get ourselves into that sort of position in three comps?

With all due respect, that's a bit of a silly question. Asking if people will be happy if we win all of our games is like asking "if your boss showered you with praise and suggested you for a promotion, would you like your boss?" Of course if everything goes our way then we will be happy. It doesn't make sense to not be happy. It kind of goes without saying that winning 6 out of 6 requires all of the problems with the manager to disappear anyway. The problem is that we will definitely not win all of those games, so the real question is asking just how much Pellegrini has to do to win over the fans again. Could he do it with only 4 wins out of 6, for instance?