Discuss Pellegrini (Pt 2)

[Summerbuzz]

Agree with nearly all of that ... two things specifically I disagree with. Firstly, I think that success in the CL does help you recruit better players - simply because those players get to see you playing in the glamour ties which whether consciously or subconsciously makes you a glamour side yourself. I've little doubt that Cavani's move to PSG would never have happened had they not performed as they did in the CL ... it was a marker of sorts about their quality.

The other thing I disagree with is the idea that Pellegrini or in fact the owners have prioritised the CL. For me it's a case of looking at the quality of the players you have and the volume of quality players you have and finding the right balance to make sure you do challenge on two fronts. It'd be IMO stupid to sack one manager for being shit in the CL whilst doing very well in the PL, and then employ another one telling them that one competition over the other is a priority.

So in short ... he needs to succeed in both competitions. What the owners/board perceive as success is anyone's guess but IMO a sustained title challenge plus reaching the knock out rounds of the CL will this season be considered a success. Failing in either one will be ... well, considered failure. Not that I think it'd effect the manager's position - just that he'd know he needed to do dramatically better in the following season.

Well, Cavani went to PSG, Falcao and plenty of others went to Monaco. Who knows why indeed. I will say that Real had no problem recruiting world stars during long periods of inadequate CL performance. Why? Money, and prestige. I think. I've hinted before that I think money and prestige is doable for us - and hope that the other stuff will come out of that. I think doing it the other way round is going to be attrition - it won't save us money (look at this summer) and it will drive us fans insane much as Wenger and Benitez drove their fans potty.

I agree with your targets. I just wish they were different. The league and a huge dollop of prestige is there for the taking this year. But then again, the Derby is this weekend and is more valuable to our league challenge than Stoke away was.

And I can see, an away win tonight sets us up beautifully in the group. Our progression depends massively on beating the weaker teams, because against the top teams, it's anybody's guess what will happen. an early win would mean we only needed to beat the two weaker teams at home and we'd have 9 points. A good result would also give much needed belief to the players in their ability in this competition.

But I disagree that Pelle is nailed on for 2 years. We have no way of knowing what happens from here. Out of the group and title race by the end of January, and the reasons for his appointment lie in pieces.

I have to laugh when Blueinsa says 'if he doesn't get us top four'. TOP FUCKING FOUR? You thought the last guy deserved shooting for failing to challenge for the league, we spend 100m, and the new target is... top 4. Just... no.

 

[cibaman]

I seriously doubt that Pellegrini has the brief or intention of sacrificing the league for the Champions League but that does not mean that he won't try and rotate players or that he will only play his best side in one of the competitions. He's got to try and find the right balance, which will be all the more difficult at the moment when he and some of the players are new to the club.

I think the aim at the moment is to ensure respectability in the CL. Get to the later stages, prove that we're serious contenders.

It cant be a case of CL over the PL or vice versa. The aim is to increase our profile across the world. Weekend televised 3pm/4pm PL kick offs are a big draw in parts of the world where the CL kicks off after midnight. And vice versa.

And we lost form in the league in each of the last two years after exiting the CL. Success leads to success.

 

[OB1]

I seriously doubt that Pellegrini has the brief or intention of sacrificing the league for the Champions League but that does not mean that he won't try and rotate players or that he will only play his best side in one of the competitions. He's got to try and find the right balance, which will be all the more difficult at the moment when he and some of the players are new to the club.

It's fairly clear the very senior management of the club view
the CL as the main priority this season and Pellegrini will
have been briefed accordingly. Progess in the CL is the
prerequisite. Winning the title this season is not.

Dangerous game if that is the case.
We could seriously end up with egg on our faces.

I'm pretty sure the goal is to try and win everything; although the leagues will take precedence. I think that getting out of the group is the key immediate goal but for the whole season, I don't think winning the UCL is the main aim. We will have to wait and see if actions prove or disprove our opinions on this. My personal priority is the Premier League but I won't cry if by some miracle we win the UCL.

 

[St Helens Blue (Exiled)]

Hull we won 2-0 and Stoke away we grabbed a point with several first team regulars missing.

4 points from a home game and an always tricky away game.

Next?

How did I know that was coming-Tricky away game?? If Stoke had any decent strikers we could easily have lost that..Hull could have been 2 up easily..
Explain Cardiff-I bet you say no VK....
We were promised flare..Not seen any yet-apart from against Newcastle but that may as well have been the dog and duck!

SHB- I am sure during the summer you said, though you were a Mancini inner, that you thought pellegrini was a great appointment and how you were looking forward to this season. You now seem determined for him to fail.

Secondly, I bet every time Mancini drew at stoke, you used the tough away game excuse.

The fact is, this has not been the start anyone expected. Very underwhelming. But 4 games have gone and that is way too early to judge.

This whole thread has just turned into a bit of a point scoring between Mancini inners and outers. Just like last season. But everyone has to get over it. Pellegrini didn't sack Mancini. Dave and billy didn't sack Mancini. I

To early to judge in your opinion. I am entitled to mine and will stick to it.
He has won fuck all in Spain-a 2 team league.
He has changed nothing-and he has had a whole pre season to endorse his ways on the team.
I want him toi fail-Yeah course I do you idiot-That is why I keep taking leave,spending my hard earned just to score cheap points.Get real
It's a forum and it's about opinions-I have mine.Most don't agree but if he is a huge success I will say I was wrong. If he is not then I won't say I told you so.Yes I admired Mancini but he had his faults but it's about now and I have seen nowt that fills me with any confidence-4 games or not!

 

[Lancet Fluke]

lots of Mancini fans were worrying on here when he was on the verge of being sacked that we were about to become Chelsea, sacking managers at the drop of a hat, it was one of their arguments for keeping him on. Now they seem quite keen on trying to force a manager out before he's had a chance to succeed or fail.

That's not the only massive contradiction in their dribbling rubbish ...

I reckon even Alan Ball got more grace than this and god knows nobody wanted him, apart from Franny, obviously.

 

[SkyBlueUSA]

Well for what it's worth, on our "Soccer" show, Eric Wynalda stood up for Pellegrini, saying that we will be ok. Wynalda says we will see how good Pellegrini is when everyone is healthy, and said we would be contending to win the league. Warren Barton said we wont win the league this year, but said we would do better in the CL and picked us to win the FA Cup.

 

[blueinsa]

I have to laugh when Blueinsa says 'if he doesn't get us top four'. TOP FUCKING FOUR? You thought the last guy deserved shooting for failing to challenge for the league, we spend 100m, and the new target is... top 4. Just... no.

I say it because if he qualifies us from the group stages of the CL and at least qualifies us again via a top 4 spot he will keep his job. I get the feeling he is very much a man keeping a seat warm and he is not a long term appointee anyway and because of this, we wont be in such a hurry to get rid until the new man is ready to take over.

Would i be happy with that? No I wouldn't be fucking happy and would be happy for him to get the boot for underachieving just as i was with Bob.

Hope that clarifies my stance for you.

 

[flb]

Agree with nearly all of that ... two things specifically I disagree with. Firstly, I think that success in the CL does help you recruit better players - simply because those players get to see you playing in the glamour ties which whether consciously or subconsciously makes you a glamour side yourself. I've little doubt that Cavani's move to PSG would never have happened had they not performed as they did in the CL ... it was a marker of sorts about their quality.

The other thing I disagree with is the idea that Pellegrini or in fact the owners have prioritised the CL. For me it's a case of looking at the quality of the players you have and the volume of quality players you have and finding the right balance to make sure you do challenge on two fronts. It'd be IMO stupid to sack one manager for being shit in the CL whilst doing very well in the PL, and then employ another one telling them that one competition over the other is a priority.

So in short ... he needs to succeed in both competitions. What the owners/board perceive as success is anyone's guess but IMO a sustained title challenge plus reaching the knock out rounds of the CL will this season be considered a success. Failing in either one will be ... well, considered failure. Not that I think it'd effect the manager's position - just that he'd know he needed to do dramatically better in the following season.

Well, Cavani went to PSG, Falcao and plenty of others went to Monaco. Who knows why indeed. I will say that Real had no problem recruiting world stars during long periods of inadequate CL performance. Why? Money, and prestige. I think. I've hinted before that I think money and prestige is doable for us - and hope that the other stuff will come out of that. I think doing it the other way round is going to be attrition - it won't save us money (look at this summer) and it will drive us fans insane much as Wenger and Benitez drove their fans potty.

I agree with your targets. I just wish they were different. The league and a huge dollop of prestige is there for the taking this year. But then again, the Derby is this weekend and is more valuable to our league challenge than Stoke away was.

And I can see, an away win tonight sets us up beautifully in the group. Our progression depends massively on beating the weaker teams, because against the top teams, it's anybody's guess what will happen. an early win would mean we only needed to beat the two weaker teams at home and we'd have 9 points. A good result would also give much needed belief to the players in their ability in this competition.

But I disagree that Pelle is nailed on for 2 years. We have no way of knowing what happens from here. Out of the group and title race by the end of January, and the reasons for his appointment lie in pieces.

I have to laugh when Blueinsa says 'if he doesn't get us top four'. TOP FUCKING FOUR? You thought the last guy deserved shooting for failing to challenge for the league, we spend 100m, and the new target is... top 4. Just... no.

Dont forget reaching the knock out stages of the Champions League, seems that's the be all and end all to some.

 

[SkyBlueUSA]

Dont forget reaching the knock out stages of the Champions League, seems that's the be all and end all to some.

Just advancing to the KO stages of the CL is not good enough for me. City need to win one of those KO ties. I would be satisfied with a Quarterfinal appearance.

 

[flb]

I have to laugh when Blueinsa says 'if he doesn't get us top four'. TOP FUCKING FOUR? You thought the last guy deserved shooting for failing to challenge for the league, we spend 100m, and the new target is... top 4. Just... no.

I say it because if he qualifies us from the group stages of the CL and at least qualifies us again via a top 4 spot he will keep his job. I get the feeling he is very much a man keeping a seat warm and he is not a long term appointee anyway and because of this, we wont be in such a hurry to get rid until the new man is ready to take over.

Would i be happy with that? No I wouldn't be fucking happy and would be happy for him to get the boot for underachieving just as i was with Bob.

Hope that clarifies my stance for you.

3 years is a long time in football mate, if its Pep we are talking about, that's a long time to keep a seat warm.