Discuss Pellegrini (Pt 3)

Status
Not open for further replies.
Can we at least have a consensus about the Sunderland match?

a) We either battered them and were unlucky. Shit happens.

Or

b) we had lots of possession without creating any meaningful chances or testing the GK.

So which is it? We all saw the bloody game so its either one or the other.
 
BillyShears said:
teddykgb said:
I had to stay away yesterday because I knew how much of a shit show this thread would be. There's a clear desire by many who didn't want to have the last manager ousted to take out their anger on this manager, which is silly and counter productive, but this is how it is.

In my opinion, BOTH managers have been undone by the players, like has been said above. This season has been absurdly impacted by injury, but the players who were signed as expensive depth are either injured or not good enough. You can speak a lot about systems, and I speak quite a bit about them because I think they are important, but there's nothing you can do to force players to take their chances when they come, or to not cock up the one time they're asked to make a defensive play or stop a shot.

IMO, when the manager gets it wrong, you can tell because the team is dominated. Bayern being the classic example, this manager got that one wrong and the team was unable to even get a foothold in the match as a result. A match like yesterday's was always going to be tough. Pointing to all of the changes is illusory, many of them were forced. Counting Richards for Zabs and Kolarov for Clichy is also daft, they've been chopping between those fullbacks for seasons now.

We had plenty of the ball yesterday and absolutely battered them in the 2nd half. They took pretty much their only real chance, off a foul, and converted it. We had Kolarov sending rockets into row ZZ. Aguero, who has been phenomenal, had an off day. The only thing that angered me and hopefully angered the manager as well was the noticeable increase in effort and intensity around 75-80 minutes. If they had played that hard from the start they would have found joy in the match eventually. Yaya, in particular, started suddenly playing late on.

The thing that I hope the manager can address is the way to approach the packed defenses. This is something Mancini didn't unlock, and the early results for MP haven't been much improved. This is very hard, and it probably relies more on the talents of players than a tactical nous by the manager. The thing that was disappointing about this yesterday was that players weren't putting themselves into positions to help, so we were often attacking 6 or 7 versus 10. MIcah/Zabs were running all over the space Navas was trying to occupy. Yaya and Milner were staying deep, while DeMichelis was coming forward like an experienced CB should to try to add to the attack, with him just a few feet away from the CMs. Meanwhile, we know at this point what Navas is going to do, yet we had nobody in the box ready to get onto the ends of those crosses.

The one player I'll give a pass to is Nasri. He worked hard yesterday and tried to be a creative engine, but couldn't really create what we needed. Nonetheless, I don't think he did anything wrong, aside from he and Yaya preferring to pass to each other over other options too often.

That's a very good post and you make lots of very good points.

It will be interesting to see if MP can oversee us getting something away from home once we fall behind and can get men behind the ball in numbers.

So far its 0 from 4 .

It will have to improve if we are to have any chance of a top four finish this year because a number of sides we still have to face will use the Sunderland blueprint against us.
 
Re: Clueless manager

We might be rich but we're still City.

if we'd set off like a train and won the league at a canter we'd get no credit anyway. They'd all just put it down to the money we've spent.
Think back to 2012, eight points down with five to play and we snatch it from the jaws of defeat. Sooooo much better then winning it by a country mile.

Audrey Roberts clearly realises this and will be heralded as a f#####g genius come May.
 
OB1 said:
BillyShears said:
teddykgb said:
I had to stay away yesterday because I knew how much of a shit show this thread would be. There's a clear desire by many who didn't want to have the last manager ousted to take out their anger on this manager, which is silly and counter productive, but this is how it is.

In my opinion, BOTH managers have been undone by the players, like has been said above. This season has been absurdly impacted by injury, but the players who were signed as expensive depth are either injured or not good enough. You can speak a lot about systems, and I speak quite a bit about them because I think they are important, but there's nothing you can do to force players to take their chances when they come, or to not cock up the one time they're asked to make a defensive play or stop a shot.

IMO, when the manager gets it wrong, you can tell because the team is dominated. Bayern being the classic example, this manager got that one wrong and the team was unable to even get a foothold in the match as a result. A match like yesterday's was always going to be tough. Pointing to all of the changes is illusory, many of them were forced. Counting Richards for Zabs and Kolarov for Clichy is also daft, they've been chopping between those fullbacks for seasons now.

We had plenty of the ball yesterday and absolutely battered them in the 2nd half. They took pretty much their only real chance, off a foul, and converted it. We had Kolarov sending rockets into row ZZ. Aguero, who has been phenomenal, had an off day. The only thing that angered me and hopefully angered the manager as well was the noticeable increase in effort and intensity around 75-80 minutes. If they had played that hard from the start they would have found joy in the match eventually. Yaya, in particular, started suddenly playing late on.

The thing that I hope the manager can address is the way to approach the packed defenses. This is something Mancini didn't unlock, and the early results for MP haven't been much improved. This is very hard, and it probably relies more on the talents of players than a tactical nous by the manager. The thing that was disappointing about this yesterday was that players weren't putting themselves into positions to help, so we were often attacking 6 or 7 versus 10. MIcah/Zabs were running all over the space Navas was trying to occupy. Yaya and Milner were staying deep, while DeMichelis was coming forward like an experienced CB should to try to add to the attack, with him just a few feet away from the CMs. Meanwhile, we know at this point what Navas is going to do, yet we had nobody in the box ready to get onto the ends of those crosses.

The one player I'll give a pass to is Nasri. He worked hard yesterday and tried to be a creative engine, but couldn't really create what we needed. Nonetheless, I don't think he did anything wrong, aside from he and Yaya preferring to pass to each other over other options too often.

That's a very good post and you make lots of very good points.

Yup.


The manager bought in Navas to give extra width and a plan B or new plan A. - Yet with our most creative player out of action he didn't have the faith to play his new winger from the start against the team that has conceded more goals than anyone. yes the players need to look at themselves but the manager ballsed it up yesterday again

Garcia and yaya in midfield - absolute disaster not a tackle between them - he must have seen enough of Garcia to realise he is SHITE
Silva out - whenever he has been out or off form we have struggled to break teams down - why not play the winger signed?
Zab - why rest one of the most consistent performers when so many other changes had to be made?

Players who need to be stand up and be counted - top of the leader board is Yaya - never ever rested / subbed. no wonder he thinks he can stroll around
 
BobKowalski said:
Can we at least have a consensus about the Sunderland match?

a) We either battered them and were unlucky. Shit happens.

Or

b) we had lots of possession without creating any meaningful chances or testing the GK.

So which is it? We all saw the bloody game so its either one or the other.

I think it was 'b' yesterday. If there was a league for possession stats or camping in the opposition half then we would be winners. The truth is that you win the league by scoring more goals than the opposition in each match and we didn't really come close to doing that.
 
BobKowalski said:
Can we at least have a consensus about the Sunderland match?

a) We either battered them and were unlucky. Shit happens.

Or

b) we had lots of possession without creating any meaningful chances or testing the GK.

So which is it? We all saw the bloody game so its either one or the other.

They let us have lots of possession because it's easier to defend without being worried about Silva's incisive passing, Yaya got bored, the defence was as woeful as it's been all season and Sunderland just waited expectantly for us to make a horrible error like our right back being stood on the halfway as they attacked.

Our plan B was one man making the same move for the same cross to the same disappointing result.

That's my take.
 
mancity1 said:
BillyShears said:
teddykgb said:
I had to stay away yesterday because I knew how much of a shit show this thread would be. There's a clear desire by many who didn't want to have the last manager ousted to take out their anger on this manager, which is silly and counter productive, but this is how it is.

In my opinion, BOTH managers have been undone by the players, like has been said above. This season has been absurdly impacted by injury, but the players who were signed as expensive depth are either injured or not good enough. You can speak a lot about systems, and I speak quite a bit about them because I think they are important, but there's nothing you can do to force players to take their chances when they come, or to not cock up the one time they're asked to make a defensive play or stop a shot.

IMO, when the manager gets it wrong, you can tell because the team is dominated. Bayern being the classic example, this manager got that one wrong and the team was unable to even get a foothold in the match as a result. A match like yesterday's was always going to be tough. Pointing to all of the changes is illusory, many of them were forced. Counting Richards for Zabs and Kolarov for Clichy is also daft, they've been chopping between those fullbacks for seasons now.

We had plenty of the ball yesterday and absolutely battered them in the 2nd half. They took pretty much their only real chance, off a foul, and converted it. We had Kolarov sending rockets into row ZZ. Aguero, who has been phenomenal, had an off day. The only thing that angered me and hopefully angered the manager as well was the noticeable increase in effort and intensity around 75-80 minutes. If they had played that hard from the start they would have found joy in the match eventually. Yaya, in particular, started suddenly playing late on.

The thing that I hope the manager can address is the way to approach the packed defenses. This is something Mancini didn't unlock, and the early results for MP haven't been much improved. This is very hard, and it probably relies more on the talents of players than a tactical nous by the manager. The thing that was disappointing about this yesterday was that players weren't putting themselves into positions to help, so we were often attacking 6 or 7 versus 10. MIcah/Zabs were running all over the space Navas was trying to occupy. Yaya and Milner were staying deep, while DeMichelis was coming forward like an experienced CB should to try to add to the attack, with him just a few feet away from the CMs. Meanwhile, we know at this point what Navas is going to do, yet we had nobody in the box ready to get onto the ends of those crosses.

The one player I'll give a pass to is Nasri. He worked hard yesterday and tried to be a creative engine, but couldn't really create what we needed. Nonetheless, I don't think he did anything wrong, aside from he and Yaya preferring to pass to each other over other options too often.

That's a very good post and you make lots of very good points.

It will be interesting to see if MP can oversee us getting something away from home once we fall behind and can get men behind the ball in numbers.

So far its 0 from 4 .

It will have to improve if we are to have any chance of a top four finish this year because a number of sides we still have to face will use the Sunderland blueprint against us.

This has been the blueprint against us for some time now. I was quite surprised Mourinho didn't show up and park the bus and dare us to try to score. I honestly think this is probably a player mixture problem, I don't know how much a manager (any manager) can do to fix it. In a lot of ways we are "victims" of being good enough to dominate possession, but not quite good enough to consistently unlock a defense. This is why, imo, we can cope with the better sides who are going to try to score and open themselves up a bit to being attacked. We give up a bit more of the ball and things open up a bit.

This is very personal opinion, but I think fundamentally we lack a dribbler or two. Nasri dribbles to retain possession excellently, but he doesn't really have the beating of his man all that often, nor does he try to...he's just not wired that way. Aguero creates some of our most dangerous stuff when the other team is packed in because of his dribbling skills, but he's just one man. In general, when the defenders are deep and organized, I think the best chance to score is to turn them and force them to scramble. We play a lot of side to side stuff that doesn't really disorganize them, we need someone to beat a man and force them to open up a bit. I had hoped Navas would provide some of this in lieu of Milner on the right, but it seems clear at this point that Navas doesn't have a bag of tricks and is just going to push the ball forward and cross. This is useful, but we need someone who can take the ball to the goal line and then dribble into the box, take on his man, or cause other sorts of havoc to cause the defenders to have to scurry a bit more than they do currently. It's all just way too straightforward.
 
BobKowalski said:
Can we at least have a consensus about the Sunderland match?

a) We either battered them and were unlucky. Shit happens.

Or

b) we had lots of possession without creating any meaningful chances or testing the GK.

So which is it? We all saw the bloody game so its either one or the other.
We'll I don't remember their goalkeeper being busy.
 
Danielmanc said:
BobKowalski said:
Can we at least have a consensus about the Sunderland match?

a) We either battered them and were unlucky. Shit happens.

Or

b) we had lots of possession without creating any meaningful chances or testing the GK.

So which is it? We all saw the bloody game so its either one or the other.

I think it was 'b' yesterday. If there was a league for possession stats or camping in the opposition half then we would be winners. The truth is that you win the league by scoring more goals than the opposition in each match and we didn't really come close to doing that.
It was closer to b than a. I only really got excited by one chance, Aguero's header. The rest didn't amount to much. 24 shots when there are 7,8,9 men between you and the goal means nothing. 1 shot when you are behind the defence must be worth 12 pot shots at a opponent who is set.
There was a good article about corners in the times last week - apparently you are far more likely to score following a throw in 18 yards or less from the goal line, than from a corner.
 
Danielmanc said:
BobKowalski said:
Can we at least have a consensus about the Sunderland match?

a) We either battered them and were unlucky. Shit happens.

Or

b) we had lots of possession without creating any meaningful chances or testing the GK.

So which is it? We all saw the bloody game so its either one or the other.

I think it was 'b' yesterday. If there was a league for possession stats or camping in the opposition half then we would be winners. The truth is that you win the league by scoring more goals than the opposition in each match and we didn't really come close to doing that.


Apart from the one or two good chances that we created,it's a B for me too.Their goalkeeper didn't pull off too many saves like Krul did in the Spurs Barcode game.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Don't have an account? Register now and see fewer ads!

SIGN UP
Back
Top
  AdBlock Detected
Bluemoon relies on advertising to pay our hosting fees. Please support the site by disabling your ad blocking software to help keep the forum sustainable. Thanks.