Ducado
Well-Known Member
So I take it that some of you want him sacked?
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Discuss Pellegrini (Pt 3)
- Thread starter NQCitizen
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Re: Clueless manager
I was as pissed off as anyone with the result yesterday, but some people need to chill out.
the performances under pellegrini are better then under the latter stages of mancini reign we just aren't getting the luck but that will change
I was as pissed off as anyone with the result yesterday, but some people need to chill out.
the performances under pellegrini are better then under the latter stages of mancini reign we just aren't getting the luck but that will change
JoeMercer'sWay
Well-Known Member
here's my thruppence.
I thought that was comfortably our 2nd worst performance of the season behind Bayern (disregarding Hull as I haven't seen that game). It was very clear from the away end that started in such good voice but quickly faded into shouting at the team for being so shit just how bobbins we were yesterday.
I'll make it clear at the start, and this is all just my opinion. Pellegrini fucked up. Why? Well principally because he proved he hasn't learnt yet because he insisted on playing flat 4-4-2 away from home, which we've proven only very occassionally (and with a lot of fortune) works. What's more, he chose to play that system without 2 of the key cogs that make that system just about usable, Fernandinho and Silva.
Pellegrini had a simple call to make. The game against Chelsea proved that we could comfortably dominate away by playing with the anchor man in midfield and all that I think he got wrong that day was starting Nasri instead of Negredo. Yesterday he wouldn't have that issue because clearly he'd just swap Negredo in for Silva and Milner in for Fern, but no, he went and did something incredibly naive.
To replace Fernandinho you have to replace with the best of your resources his passing ability and his mobility. The ideal compromise was to play a diamond variation of 4-4-2, with Milner playing alongside Yaya and Nasri and Aguero just off Negredo, allowing Nasri to drop short and link play. What happened was that we put Garcia in there in a flat 4, meaning that his mobility was found out, and Jimmy was left doing his running around a lot but generally not being effective on the wing, whereas he could have done the box to box side of Fern in the middle much more effectively, as shown in the 2nd half. This nullifies the other problem of Nastasic being out, because Garcia would be in close enough proximity to Lescott to suit Lescott's limited passing range, and thus allow Yaya and Milner to not drop too deep. People may scream "what about the width?", but to me there is a serious imbalance in the team when Navas plays, as shown in the 2nd half when all we did was pass it sideways (no different to the first half) and then "give it to Navas". We basically ended up trying the Rags trademark, the difference is they've done nothing but whip in crosses and sneak jammy goals for 20 years where as we've played a completely different style, it was desperation.
His decision to pick Micah was extraordinary, because I can only assume Micah forgot how to play football from the last training session to the match because that was one of the most pathetic performances I've seen in a long time. There were many issues with the Sunderland game, and oddly in areas you may not expect just look at the stats.
We had 63% possession, and a staggering 90% pass success rate. What does that tell you? well it's almost Barca level in accuracy. Simply put we were passing the ball in short distances, keeping it, but not doing a lot with it. How do I know that? well despite a 90% success rate and 63% possession, we did not manage a single through ball per game, and we only attempted 3. That shows that Sunderland sat deep, but also that we didn't really try and pass the ball through the lines, we passed it sideways. We hit 50 crosses, only 11 found a man. At Chelsea we hit 18 crosses, at West Ham we hit 12. We completely changed our style of play, and this shows a lack of faith in his own tactics by the manager if he changed it to make us do that, or if the players just decided to use that tactic it shows a lack of composure and belief. The best teams don't just start lumping it because they're behind, they play their own way. You can say he changed it up and good on him for trying Plan B, but if that's the case why wasn't Dzeko brought on at half-time with Navas to reflect that this was the way we were going to play,and then why did we take off Negredo? If you're whacking it in the box does it not make sense to have your big men on the pitch?
14 of our 24 attempts (of which only 4 were on target, rubbish) came in the last half hour. Not only that, but 4 were headers off target, 1 was a blocked header, 3 were shots outside the box that was blocked, 3 were shots from outside the box that was off target 1 was a shot in the box and that was off target and 2 were shots outside the box on target. We barely had any presence in their box and proved we couldn't get through a deep lying team, a problem that Mancini was widely criticized for but it just looks like we started hitting and hoping and relying on Navas and AK to whip it in in hope, rather than taking the bull by the horns and trying to force an equaliser.
To me, and having seen the body language of the players during the game, it felt especially with Navas on that they started passing the buck onto him, and as shown by Kolarov's larger than normal attacking contribution, the same for him. Yaya did not complete what is seen as a key pass (a pass that leads to an attacking opportunity or phase of play) during the entire game, he was captain and he did not put a shift in. Pellegrini is keeping him as captain and evidently wasn't able to motivate him. Kun and Negredo were left starved of the ball in advanced positions, a trait not too dissimilar to Bayern even though this time we had most of the ball. 24 shots, 4 on target, 8 blocked, 12 off target. 14 corners to Sunderland's 0. We were incredibly wasteful but clearly did not produce enough clear cut opportunities.
Nasri stepped up with 98 passes with 123 touches at 93% completion with 6 out of his 7 long passes completed and he also attempted a through ball. In comparison Silva at West Ham had 85 passes with 104 touches at 92% completion with 4 of his 6 long passes completed and he also attempted a through ball. Nasri in that game had 47 passes with 63 touches at 85% completion with no long balls and no through balls. So Nasri stepped up to Silva's mark, but there was nobody there to fill Nasri's role. Yaya's performance stats were lower than usual as well, which meant that 3/4 of our midfield was either out or underperforming. With the players he had available Pelle had to sure it up and play a tighter, more controlled game that stopped Sunderland getting through (far too many times especially in the first half there were 4 Sunderland players and only Yaya near them), there was too much space and his poor selection meant the likes of Richards were leaving Milner with defensive duties they shouldn't have been doing and it was to our detriment. We also could not get the ball to our front men, or in the box, even in the first half before they dropped deep and he couldn't get a performance out of Yaya. When it came to switching it up he left his tallest striker on the bench till 20 mins left and let the team pump the ball into the box to only 1 target man instead of 2.
All in all Pellegrini did not adapt correctly or wisely to the hand he had been dealt through injury and didn't react smartly to the change in tactic for the 2nd half. He insists on leaving us vulnerable and maintaining a tactic that is to the detriment of his team. The players under performance comes down to two main points, either they weren't up for it (worrying) or they couldn't perform in that setup and as an extension to that lost faith in what they were sent out to do and tried more in hope than with any confidence, passing the buck to Navas and Kolarov suggests to me the latter, but again this is only my opinion.
It's either extreme naivety or stubbornness from Pellegrini and neither is particularly welcome, particularly when it was Mancini's stubbornness that contributed to the conflicts and the unrest last season. We keep losing away and the players are going to start to lose faith, particularly when it isn't rocket science as to what's going wrong. Their heads will also drop, particularly if they are squad players who don't get much game time and are then put into a role they're not comfortable with or effective in. I can see this only going one way unless Pelle wises it up and that's more aggravation in the 2nd half of the season. With your best players who are something a bit special you can sometimes get away with it, particularly if they play it week in, week out, but with your squad players you have to give allowances and he didn't do that. Yesterday was another case of a 1 on 1 with the keeper to score, and the most common goal with that is clear chances in the 6 yard area (see Schurrle, Cardiff) or shots from outside the box or the edge of the area where they have too much space. We offer far too much space in defence and players are getting caught out of position, it's not solid enough and it's costing us.
I firmly believe having an anchor man was the best way forward yesterday and is the best system for us going forward away from home. At home with our stars in we can run riot, but we have to be sensible otherwise and we're not being, and it's going to cost us.
Like I said, extreme naivety or stubbornness, and neither are welcome.
I thought that was comfortably our 2nd worst performance of the season behind Bayern (disregarding Hull as I haven't seen that game). It was very clear from the away end that started in such good voice but quickly faded into shouting at the team for being so shit just how bobbins we were yesterday.
I'll make it clear at the start, and this is all just my opinion. Pellegrini fucked up. Why? Well principally because he proved he hasn't learnt yet because he insisted on playing flat 4-4-2 away from home, which we've proven only very occassionally (and with a lot of fortune) works. What's more, he chose to play that system without 2 of the key cogs that make that system just about usable, Fernandinho and Silva.
Pellegrini had a simple call to make. The game against Chelsea proved that we could comfortably dominate away by playing with the anchor man in midfield and all that I think he got wrong that day was starting Nasri instead of Negredo. Yesterday he wouldn't have that issue because clearly he'd just swap Negredo in for Silva and Milner in for Fern, but no, he went and did something incredibly naive.
To replace Fernandinho you have to replace with the best of your resources his passing ability and his mobility. The ideal compromise was to play a diamond variation of 4-4-2, with Milner playing alongside Yaya and Nasri and Aguero just off Negredo, allowing Nasri to drop short and link play. What happened was that we put Garcia in there in a flat 4, meaning that his mobility was found out, and Jimmy was left doing his running around a lot but generally not being effective on the wing, whereas he could have done the box to box side of Fern in the middle much more effectively, as shown in the 2nd half. This nullifies the other problem of Nastasic being out, because Garcia would be in close enough proximity to Lescott to suit Lescott's limited passing range, and thus allow Yaya and Milner to not drop too deep. People may scream "what about the width?", but to me there is a serious imbalance in the team when Navas plays, as shown in the 2nd half when all we did was pass it sideways (no different to the first half) and then "give it to Navas". We basically ended up trying the Rags trademark, the difference is they've done nothing but whip in crosses and sneak jammy goals for 20 years where as we've played a completely different style, it was desperation.
His decision to pick Micah was extraordinary, because I can only assume Micah forgot how to play football from the last training session to the match because that was one of the most pathetic performances I've seen in a long time. There were many issues with the Sunderland game, and oddly in areas you may not expect just look at the stats.
We had 63% possession, and a staggering 90% pass success rate. What does that tell you? well it's almost Barca level in accuracy. Simply put we were passing the ball in short distances, keeping it, but not doing a lot with it. How do I know that? well despite a 90% success rate and 63% possession, we did not manage a single through ball per game, and we only attempted 3. That shows that Sunderland sat deep, but also that we didn't really try and pass the ball through the lines, we passed it sideways. We hit 50 crosses, only 11 found a man. At Chelsea we hit 18 crosses, at West Ham we hit 12. We completely changed our style of play, and this shows a lack of faith in his own tactics by the manager if he changed it to make us do that, or if the players just decided to use that tactic it shows a lack of composure and belief. The best teams don't just start lumping it because they're behind, they play their own way. You can say he changed it up and good on him for trying Plan B, but if that's the case why wasn't Dzeko brought on at half-time with Navas to reflect that this was the way we were going to play,and then why did we take off Negredo? If you're whacking it in the box does it not make sense to have your big men on the pitch?
14 of our 24 attempts (of which only 4 were on target, rubbish) came in the last half hour. Not only that, but 4 were headers off target, 1 was a blocked header, 3 were shots outside the box that was blocked, 3 were shots from outside the box that was off target 1 was a shot in the box and that was off target and 2 were shots outside the box on target. We barely had any presence in their box and proved we couldn't get through a deep lying team, a problem that Mancini was widely criticized for but it just looks like we started hitting and hoping and relying on Navas and AK to whip it in in hope, rather than taking the bull by the horns and trying to force an equaliser.
To me, and having seen the body language of the players during the game, it felt especially with Navas on that they started passing the buck onto him, and as shown by Kolarov's larger than normal attacking contribution, the same for him. Yaya did not complete what is seen as a key pass (a pass that leads to an attacking opportunity or phase of play) during the entire game, he was captain and he did not put a shift in. Pellegrini is keeping him as captain and evidently wasn't able to motivate him. Kun and Negredo were left starved of the ball in advanced positions, a trait not too dissimilar to Bayern even though this time we had most of the ball. 24 shots, 4 on target, 8 blocked, 12 off target. 14 corners to Sunderland's 0. We were incredibly wasteful but clearly did not produce enough clear cut opportunities.
Nasri stepped up with 98 passes with 123 touches at 93% completion with 6 out of his 7 long passes completed and he also attempted a through ball. In comparison Silva at West Ham had 85 passes with 104 touches at 92% completion with 4 of his 6 long passes completed and he also attempted a through ball. Nasri in that game had 47 passes with 63 touches at 85% completion with no long balls and no through balls. So Nasri stepped up to Silva's mark, but there was nobody there to fill Nasri's role. Yaya's performance stats were lower than usual as well, which meant that 3/4 of our midfield was either out or underperforming. With the players he had available Pelle had to sure it up and play a tighter, more controlled game that stopped Sunderland getting through (far too many times especially in the first half there were 4 Sunderland players and only Yaya near them), there was too much space and his poor selection meant the likes of Richards were leaving Milner with defensive duties they shouldn't have been doing and it was to our detriment. We also could not get the ball to our front men, or in the box, even in the first half before they dropped deep and he couldn't get a performance out of Yaya. When it came to switching it up he left his tallest striker on the bench till 20 mins left and let the team pump the ball into the box to only 1 target man instead of 2.
All in all Pellegrini did not adapt correctly or wisely to the hand he had been dealt through injury and didn't react smartly to the change in tactic for the 2nd half. He insists on leaving us vulnerable and maintaining a tactic that is to the detriment of his team. The players under performance comes down to two main points, either they weren't up for it (worrying) or they couldn't perform in that setup and as an extension to that lost faith in what they were sent out to do and tried more in hope than with any confidence, passing the buck to Navas and Kolarov suggests to me the latter, but again this is only my opinion.
It's either extreme naivety or stubbornness from Pellegrini and neither is particularly welcome, particularly when it was Mancini's stubbornness that contributed to the conflicts and the unrest last season. We keep losing away and the players are going to start to lose faith, particularly when it isn't rocket science as to what's going wrong. Their heads will also drop, particularly if they are squad players who don't get much game time and are then put into a role they're not comfortable with or effective in. I can see this only going one way unless Pelle wises it up and that's more aggravation in the 2nd half of the season. With your best players who are something a bit special you can sometimes get away with it, particularly if they play it week in, week out, but with your squad players you have to give allowances and he didn't do that. Yesterday was another case of a 1 on 1 with the keeper to score, and the most common goal with that is clear chances in the 6 yard area (see Schurrle, Cardiff) or shots from outside the box or the edge of the area where they have too much space. We offer far too much space in defence and players are getting caught out of position, it's not solid enough and it's costing us.
I firmly believe having an anchor man was the best way forward yesterday and is the best system for us going forward away from home. At home with our stars in we can run riot, but we have to be sensible otherwise and we're not being, and it's going to cost us.
Like I said, extreme naivety or stubbornness, and neither are welcome.
Thenumber1blue
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Re: Clueless manager
This is the most embarrassing thread yet on bluemoon and that takes some doing !
This is the most embarrassing thread yet on bluemoon and that takes some doing !
If we take less than 15pts in the next 7 games of which I think 4 are at home the powers that be will have a decision to make.Ducado said:So I take it that some of you want him sacked?
St Helens Blue (Exiled)
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Ducado said:So I take it that some of you want him sacked?
I don't think many would be upset given our performances on the road this season in the prem.
If he gets us into third or even fourth this season then I will be grateful.
There is not a chance he will be sacked because what does it mean about our Spanish duo and their ability to attract the best. I am not a bleiever that Guardiola will roll up here when the Spanish duo click their fingers. Honestly why would he leave Bayern?
gordondaviesmoustache
Well-Known Member
Conspicuously failing to answer the question, I note.jake28 said:If we take less than 15pts in the next 7 games of which I think 4 are at home the powers that be will have a decision to make.Ducado said:So I take it that some of you want him sacked?
NQCitizen
Well-Known Member
Why is everyone convinced Pep is coming? He's at the best bankrolled club in the best league in terms of attendances in the most stable country economically at a club that is both historic but also a growing force with a load of amazing young home grown talent.
There isn't a better gig in football than the Bayern job.
As much as it sounds harsh - if Manchester City's manager role was that jaw-droppingly attractive we wouldn't have Pellegrini in charge (seeing as we sounded out Klopp)
Also to clear something up - AVB has a much better record than Pellegrini (wasn't he the youngest manager ever to win a European trophy?)
There isn't a better gig in football than the Bayern job.
As much as it sounds harsh - if Manchester City's manager role was that jaw-droppingly attractive we wouldn't have Pellegrini in charge (seeing as we sounded out Klopp)
Also to clear something up - AVB has a much better record than Pellegrini (wasn't he the youngest manager ever to win a European trophy?)
baildon blue
Well-Known Member
Pellergrini reminds me a lot of Jimmy Frizzell . Nice fella but not good enough to manage a big team like Manchester City . Frizzell was good at managing small teams like Oldham . And its the same with Pellergrini good at the likes of Malaga ,crap at Real Madrid .
I'd take less than 15. Follow your mentor Alex Ferguson's guidance on the formulae required to win a title. It's being there or thereabouts at the beginning of March. 15 points from the next 7 would be more than what I would say is the minimum requirementjake28 said:If we take less than 15pts in the next 7 games of which I think 4 are at home the powers that be will have a decision to make.Ducado said:So I take it that some of you want him sacked?
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