Discuss Pellegrini (Pt 3)

[Gorton_Tubster]

Re: Clueless manager

Whatever the PERCEIVED problems are....... Support your fking team, city players see this sort of thread. Give the manager a season and half to get things working then judge him

What annoys me even more is that some of you guys actually wanted Mancini out

 

[Exeter Blue I am here]

Not true.

In reverse order:

Wigan (Wembley) L
Swansea D
Spurs L
Chelsea (Wembley) W
United W
Everton L
Villa W
Southampton L
QPR D

Forgot Chelsea in the semi, soz. Otherwise exactly as claimed, as far as I can see.......

So other than one of your claimed defeats transitioning to a win as if by magic... The same also applied whether you left out the neutral venues but included Stoke away in the cup or whether you went for league only. It was just a wrong stat.

I didn't turn a defeat into a victory, I simply didn't include it, and the Stoke game pre-dates the fixtures above. You can excite yourself about semantics if you wish (and clearly you do wish), but whether our record was W2 D2 L4 or W3 D2 L4, it still wasn't exactly stellar. Even in the year we won the title, we garnered only 34 points out of 89 on the road, and last year I think (you'd best check, you seem to enjoy that kind of thing), we were down to 31. That figure certainly looks like falling further this season, but the point is poor away form is not exactly a new phenomenon. We are victims of our own ability to a degree, in that we have some excellent midfielders, who monopolise possession and ensure that we face more parked buses than any other side. Counter attacking, in the way Arsenal do, is a relative rarity for City both under Mancini and Pellegrini. The latter couldn't find a way through Cardiff or Sunderland's massed ranks any more than his predecessor could Sunderland's, Everton's or QPR. Furthermore, Pellers has had key injuries to Kompany, Silva, Nastasic, Jovetic and now Fernandinho to contend with, and Negredo has simply replaced Tevez. But there are no shades of grey for some of the knee jerkers on here, are there, only black and white. Let's sack the manager after just 11 games in charge, eh?!

 

[Anonymous]

I didn't turn a defeat into a victory, I simply didn't include it, and the Stoke game pre-dates the fixtures above. You can excite yourself about semantics if you wish (and clearly you do wish), but whether our record was W2 D2 L4 or W3 D2 L4, it still wasn't exactly stellar. Even in the year we won the title, we garnered only 34 points out of 89 on the road, and last year I think (you'd best check, you seem to enjoy that kind of thing), we were down to 31. That figure certainly looks like falling further this season, but the point is poor away form is not exactly a new phenomenon. We are victims of our own ability to a degree, in that we have some excellent midfielders, who monopolise possession and ensure that we face more parked buses than any other side. Counter attacking, in the way Arsenal do, is a relative rarity for City both under Mancini and Pellegrini. The latter couldn't find a way through Cardiff or Sunderland's massed ranks any more than his predecessor could Sunderland's, Everton's or QPR. Furthermore, Pellers has had key injuries to Kompany, Silva, Nastasic, Jovetic and now Fernandinho to contend with, and Negredo has simply replaced Tevez. But there are no shades of grey for some of the knee jerkers on here, are there, only black and white. Let's sack the manager after just 11 games in charge, eh?!

Cracking post which certainly puts into context some of the panty wetting "we're going backwards" histrionics.

 

[Kippax.]

chelsea mk II

Embarrassing, when did the tide turn with our fans?

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Article by Herbert.Apologies if this has been by posted already.......

Somewhere near the Sea of Marmara, Roberto Mancini could afford himself a self-satisfied smile on Sunday. The new Galatasaray manager said after his Manchester City side lost for the second successive time at Sunderland’s Stadium of Light last Boxing Day that he never wanted to visit the place again. Though he should have been careful what he wished for, a fourth league away defeat in six for City is the kind of record that belongs to the relegation-threatened ranks of the Premier League, not the richest.


It would be easy to conclude that City are not moving on from the Mancini era, if the initial 11 games of this Premier League season provided any evidence of infallibility from one or two of the other challengers. A win for Arsenal at Manchester United on Sunday would have delivered the leaders a nine-point lead over City – and the beginnings of something unassailable from an Etihad perspective. But United’s victory created a more level picture: a six-point gap between first and eighth, which in the current landscape really is nothing. Six of those eight teams are divided by three points.

Do not expect any club to pull clear immediately when domestic business resumes next week, either. The United manager, David Moyes, was talking once again on Sunday night of expecting another “bloody nose” or two and success amid such a group of flawed contenders may be a matter of digging out little pockets of consistency. The fundamental point is that City possess the best squad, man for man. The title is by no means beyond them.

The gulf in their performances home and way is startling for all that. A reputation for vulnerability can quickly take hold and opponents are certainly pumped up with belief when it comes to playing at home to Manuel Pellegrini’s players, even though City’s latest opponents were deeply unambitious on Sunday. It was like the Alamo at the Stadium of Light after Sunderland had taken the lead.

City’s flaw – and all eight of those top eight sides have one – is the lack of depth when Pellegrini’s first choices are injured. Their laments about injuries did bear scrutiny on Wearside. Absent were their first-choice centre-backs, Vincent Kompany and Matija Nastasic, and midfielders David Silva and Fernandinho, whose understanding with Yaya Touré has been developing. They lack elite replacements, too. Martin Demichelis, with his lack of pace, has been a poor alternative to Pellegrini’s first choice for defensive cover in the summer – Real Madrid’s Pepe . Though Stevan Jovetic and Jesus Navas (left) seemed to offer an embarrassment of options when they came through the door in the close season, the pair have barely played – just one Premier League start each.

Injuries have plagued Jovetic but Navas – who was anticipated as the player to give City the width they have hitherto lacked – has not yet looked capable of commanding the field in the Premier League. A study by EPL Index has highlighted Navas’s failure to take men on. He has only attempted two dribbles this season and has a crossing accuracy of 33 per cent, while Alvaro Negredo, City’s other signing from Seville, has figures which show how quickly he has prospered in England: 10 attempted dribbles and a crossing accuracy of 40 per cent.

This is curious. It was Negredo, a similar striker to Edin Dzeko, who had seemed more destined to struggle. The data also suggests Navas has not been given the ball in advanced wide positions. In this transition period, it looks as though City are struggling to change from Mancini’s narrower style – with Silva and Samir Nasri wanting to come inside. Navas has certainly been signed to create not score. He did not find the net once in La Liga for Seville last season and has scored only 35 goals in his 401 career appearances. Pellegrini needs service for him.

The Chilean manager does seem to have the capacity that Mancini lacked to make players want to run through walls for him. Micah Richards provided a sense of that last week when, in an enlightening interview, he observed that his team-mate and friend Joe Hart was unhappy to be out of the team but respected Pellegrini’s straightforward way of delivering the decision to him.

The progress towards the Champions League knockout stage – so far beyond Mancini for so long – also matters more than anything in the scheme of things to City’s Abu Dhabi owners, with their pursuit of global profile. It would also be wrong to characterise City as defensively more deficient under Pellegrini: they have conceded five goals fewer than at the same stage last season.

We can expect them – still supreme at home – to beat Tottenham Hotspur and Swansea City in their next Premier League games. And we can then anticipate anything when they face West Bromwich and Southampton away. This eighth place is not a crisis, though. City are comfortably in the picture and as equipped as anyone to make their move.

That was actually a fair piece from Herbert for a change.

 

[OB1]

Article by Herbert.Apologies if this has been by posted already.......

Somewhere near the Sea of Marmara, Roberto Mancini could afford himself a self-satisfied smile on Sunday. The new Galatasaray manager said after his Manchester City side lost for the second successive time at Sunderland’s Stadium of Light last Boxing Day that he never wanted to visit the place again. Though he should have been careful what he wished for, a fourth league away defeat in six for City is the kind of record that belongs to the relegation-threatened ranks of the Premier League, not the richest.


It would be easy to conclude that City are not moving on from the Mancini era, if the initial 11 games of this Premier League season provided any evidence of infallibility from one or two of the other challengers. A win for Arsenal at Manchester United on Sunday would have delivered the leaders a nine-point lead over City – and the beginnings of something unassailable from an Etihad perspective. But United’s victory created a more level picture: a six-point gap between first and eighth, which in the current landscape really is nothing. Six of those eight teams are divided by three points.

Do not expect any club to pull clear immediately when domestic business resumes next week, either. The United manager, David Moyes, was talking once again on Sunday night of expecting another “bloody nose” or two and success amid such a group of flawed contenders may be a matter of digging out little pockets of consistency. The fundamental point is that City possess the best squad, man for man. The title is by no means beyond them.

The gulf in their performances home and way is startling for all that. A reputation for vulnerability can quickly take hold and opponents are certainly pumped up with belief when it comes to playing at home to Manuel Pellegrini’s players, even though City’s latest opponents were deeply unambitious on Sunday. It was like the Alamo at the Stadium of Light after Sunderland had taken the lead.

City’s flaw – and all eight of those top eight sides have one – is the lack of depth when Pellegrini’s first choices are injured. Their laments about injuries did bear scrutiny on Wearside. Absent were their first-choice centre-backs, Vincent Kompany and Matija Nastasic, and midfielders David Silva and Fernandinho, whose understanding with Yaya Touré has been developing. They lack elite replacements, too. Martin Demichelis, with his lack of pace, has been a poor alternative to Pellegrini’s first choice for defensive cover in the summer – Real Madrid’s Pepe . Though Stevan Jovetic and Jesus Navas (left) seemed to offer an embarrassment of options when they came through the door in the close season, the pair have barely played – just one Premier League start each.

Injuries have plagued Jovetic but Navas – who was anticipated as the player to give City the width they have hitherto lacked – has not yet looked capable of commanding the field in the Premier League. A study by EPL Index has highlighted Navas’s failure to take men on. He has only attempted two dribbles this season and has a crossing accuracy of 33 per cent, while Alvaro Negredo, City’s other signing from Seville, has figures which show how quickly he has prospered in England: 10 attempted dribbles and a crossing accuracy of 40 per cent.

This is curious. It was Negredo, a similar striker to Edin Dzeko, who had seemed more destined to struggle. The data also suggests Navas has not been given the ball in advanced wide positions. In this transition period, it looks as though City are struggling to change from Mancini’s narrower style – with Silva and Samir Nasri wanting to come inside. Navas has certainly been signed to create not score. He did not find the net once in La Liga for Seville last season and has scored only 35 goals in his 401 career appearances. Pellegrini needs service for him.

The Chilean manager does seem to have the capacity that Mancini lacked to make players want to run through walls for him. Micah Richards provided a sense of that last week when, in an enlightening interview, he observed that his team-mate and friend Joe Hart was unhappy to be out of the team but respected Pellegrini’s straightforward way of delivering the decision to him.

The progress towards the Champions League knockout stage – so far beyond Mancini for so long – also matters more than anything in the scheme of things to City’s Abu Dhabi owners, with their pursuit of global profile. It would also be wrong to characterise City as defensively more deficient under Pellegrini: they have conceded five goals fewer than at the same stage last season.

We can expect them – still supreme at home – to beat Tottenham Hotspur and Swansea City in their next Premier League games. And we can then anticipate anything when they face West Bromwich and Southampton away. This eighth place is not a crisis, though. City are comfortably in the picture and as equipped as anyone to make their move.

I think that is a reasonably objective independent take on City so far. I'd say the description of Demichelis was a bit harsh but wouldn't quibble with the sentiment that Pepe would have been preferable.

I'm really trying to avoid too much mention of Mancini but I believe that our problems away from home are something that Pellegrini fundamentally inherited. However, you wish to dissect the Sunderland game, it had too much in common with the three preceding 1-0 defeats there. One of Pellegrini's biggest tasks, in my eyes, is to bring about a positive change in our success rate away from home. He has not done so yet in the league but he has to be given a decent amount of time to address longstanding issues (the inability to maneuver round parked buses or deal with high presses or fired up scufflers...) on that front. If he cannot bring solutions to the club, he will not retain his job. However, he needs a properly decent amount of time to do it and he has had nowhere near enough time.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

chelsea mk II

Embarrassing, when did the tide turn with our fans?

Padded seats in CB2 was probably the tipping point.

 

[flb]

Article by Herbert.Apologies if this has been by posted already.......

Somewhere near the Sea of Marmara, Roberto Mancini could afford himself a self-satisfied smile on Sunday. The new Galatasaray manager said after his Manchester City side lost for the second successive time at Sunderland’s Stadium of Light last Boxing Day that he never wanted to visit the place again. Though he should have been careful what he wished for, a fourth league away defeat in six for City is the kind of record that belongs to the relegation-threatened ranks of the Premier League, not the richest.


It would be easy to conclude that City are not moving on from the Mancini era, if the initial 11 games of this Premier League season provided any evidence of infallibility from one or two of the other challengers. A win for Arsenal at Manchester United on Sunday would have delivered the leaders a nine-point lead over City – and the beginnings of something unassailable from an Etihad perspective. But United’s victory created a more level picture: a six-point gap between first and eighth, which in the current landscape really is nothing. Six of those eight teams are divided by three points.

Do not expect any club to pull clear immediately when domestic business resumes next week, either. The United manager, David Moyes, was talking once again on Sunday night of expecting another “bloody nose” or two and success amid such a group of flawed contenders may be a matter of digging out little pockets of consistency. The fundamental point is that City possess the best squad, man for man. The title is by no means beyond them.

The gulf in their performances home and way is startling for all that. A reputation for vulnerability can quickly take hold and opponents are certainly pumped up with belief when it comes to playing at home to Manuel Pellegrini’s players, even though City’s latest opponents were deeply unambitious on Sunday. It was like the Alamo at the Stadium of Light after Sunderland had taken the lead.

City’s flaw – and all eight of those top eight sides have one – is the lack of depth when Pellegrini’s first choices are injured. Their laments about injuries did bear scrutiny on Wearside. Absent were their first-choice centre-backs, Vincent Kompany and Matija Nastasic, and midfielders David Silva and Fernandinho, whose understanding with Yaya Touré has been developing. They lack elite replacements, too. Martin Demichelis, with his lack of pace, has been a poor alternative to Pellegrini’s first choice for defensive cover in the summer – Real Madrid’s Pepe . Though Stevan Jovetic and Jesus Navas (left) seemed to offer an embarrassment of options when they came through the door in the close season, the pair have barely played – just one Premier League start each.

Injuries have plagued Jovetic but Navas – who was anticipated as the player to give City the width they have hitherto lacked – has not yet looked capable of commanding the field in the Premier League. A study by EPL Index has highlighted Navas’s failure to take men on. He has only attempted two dribbles this season and has a crossing accuracy of 33 per cent, while Alvaro Negredo, City’s other signing from Seville, has figures which show how quickly he has prospered in England: 10 attempted dribbles and a crossing accuracy of 40 per cent.

This is curious. It was Negredo, a similar striker to Edin Dzeko, who had seemed more destined to struggle. The data also suggests Navas has not been given the ball in advanced wide positions. In this transition period, it looks as though City are struggling to change from Mancini’s narrower style – with Silva and Samir Nasri wanting to come inside. Navas has certainly been signed to create not score. He did not find the net once in La Liga for Seville last season and has scored only 35 goals in his 401 career appearances. Pellegrini needs service for him.

The Chilean manager does seem to have the capacity that Mancini lacked to make players want to run through walls for him. Micah Richards provided a sense of that last week when, in an enlightening interview, he observed that his team-mate and friend Joe Hart was unhappy to be out of the team but respected Pellegrini’s straightforward way of delivering the decision to him.

The progress towards the Champions League knockout stage – so far beyond Mancini for so long – also matters more than anything in the scheme of things to City’s Abu Dhabi owners, with their pursuit of global profile. It would also be wrong to characterise City as defensively more deficient under Pellegrini: they have conceded five goals fewer than at the same stage last season.

We can expect them – still supreme at home – to beat Tottenham Hotspur and Swansea City in their next Premier League games. And we can then anticipate anything when they face West Bromwich and Southampton away. This eighth place is not a crisis, though. City are comfortably in the picture and as equipped as anyone to make their move.

I can relax now, thank fuck for Herbert

-- Tue Nov 12, 2013 11:06 am --

I think the majority on here think Richards , Clichy , Garcia, Dzeko , Hart, Rodwell , Kolorov, Lescott will be shipped out over the next two windows.

Sinclair will move on as well of course.

Easier said than done of course and a lot to replace 5 players who took part against QPR in May 2012 and only 1.5-2 seasons on.

yaya , silva , nasri, negrdo, jovetic , ferni , navas, aguerro and hopefully a fit VK , Pants ( second keeper ) , Zabba, Demi, Nasty to stay on hopefully until 2015 at least.

Who are our five homegrown players then if they are all peddled?

As I said easier said than done and its highly unlikely we will get more than more coverage in defence in January if the likes of Lescott wants out to give him what little chance he has on getting on a plane to Rio as more than a pundit or sightseer.

It wont just be a case of players being sold it will be a case of players putting in transfer requests to get first team football

i cant see Richards, Rodwell, Lescott, Milner hanging around for too much longer-all homegrown players.


So which homegrown players will replace those that leave?

 

[Skashion]

I didn't turn a defeat into a victory, I simply didn't include it, and the Stoke game pre-dates the fixtures above. You can excite yourself about semantics if you wish (and clearly you do wish), but whether our record was W2 D2 L4 or W3 D2 L4, it still wasn't exactly stellar. Even in the year we won the title, we garnered only 34 points out of 89 on the road, and last year I think (you'd best check, you seem to enjoy that kind of thing), we were down to 31. That figure certainly looks like falling further this season, but the point is poor away form is not exactly a new phenomenon. We are victims of our own ability to a degree, in that we have some excellent midfielders, who monopolise possession and ensure that we face more parked buses than any other side. Counter attacking, in the way Arsenal do, is a relative rarity for City both under Mancini and Pellegrini. The latter couldn't find a way through Cardiff or Sunderland's massed ranks any more than his predecessor could Sunderland's, Everton's or QPR. Furthermore, Pellers has had key injuries to Kompany, Silva, Nastasic, Jovetic and now Fernandinho to contend with, and Negredo has simply replaced Tevez. But there are no shades of grey for some of the knee jerkers on here, are there, only black and white. Let's sack the manager after just 11 games in charge, eh?!

No, 8 games cannot transition into 9. W3 2D 4L is 9 games. You said our last 8. I didn't include Wembley as away games because it is neutral venue. I'm not going to apologise for not using your confused 'logic'. If you remove neutral venues our last eight away games are W3 D2 L3. If you only use league games it's the same record.

However, the only thing we should be discussing is the improvement in our away form. We got rid of a manager that was not good enough to take us forward apparently, spent a shed load of money on decent attacking players, all of whom I'm happy have improved us, especially Negredo who is looking like the buy of the window, so why has our already poor away form (5th best last season) gone backwards to 16th best? It's not hard to understand people talking about it.

No, people shouldn't be talking about sacking. That's pathetic, but talking about not only poor away form, but away form getting worse, is what this forum is actually about - talking about football.

 

[flb]

Re: Clueless manager

He can only pick what is available. The problem with the defence started last season when Mancini decided to experiment in playing 3 at the back and bringing in his own defensive coach.

Its commendable that you are defending Pellagrini's team selections


Can you answer me as to why he left our best left and right backs on the bench for an important away game against a team scrapping for there lives?

Why did he wait until half time to sub the disgracefully mard arsed Garcia who is so so out of his depth in the premiership its an embarrassment watching him.

Are you telling me he set the team up to its best on Sunday?

Hart,Milner,Richards,Nastasic,Lescott and Clichy have all gone backwards under Pellagrini - a defensive unit that had the best defence in the premiership for the past three seasons is now defending like a Mark Hughes outfit.


He's grossly underestimating the premiership, and he has been a tad fortunate with the CL group we have.

I'm all for giving him a chance and i want him to succeed i really do, he just isn't learning from his obvious mistakes.

The season could be over by Christmas and success would be qualifying for the CL and a run in the cups.

I'm sorry mate but its just not good enough

It has been said Garcia went off due to injury not tactics. I was hoping the penny had dropped but we will see what happens when he's fit

Must have got injured in the dressing room then, perhaps he slipped on one of his tampons.