Discuss Pellegrini (Pt 3)

[Anonymous]

Couldn't agree more and Billy I reckon you have a lot of explaining to do unless when you mean others haven't stood still you are referring to the Hulls Newcastles , Evertons and Southamptons of the league.

Arsenal, Spurs, Liverpool, Chelsea, Southampton, Swansea, and Everton are all stronger than last season. They are the teams who were immediately below us last season. Our squad is also stronger, I don't dispute that. But the overall competition in the league is reflected in the way the league table looks, and currently it looks wide open.

As I've said before I think whoever reaches 80 points this season will win the league.

 

[BobKowalski]

Might be because you said the players we bought were a downgrade (which you're now contradicting) thereby making the money spent irrelevant.

Well, it's not irrelevant. We improved the squad so we should do better than last season. Okie dokie.

What I meant by "were all classed as a downgrade" was that people on this forum, those same people unsurprisingly who are unprepared to give Pellegrini a fair shake, were unprepared to give our new signings a new chance. Hence names like Flopinho for Fernandinho, or the Spanish Grant Holt for Negredo. Hope that clears up why I wasn't by any stretch contradicting myself.

With respect to "stronger squad = better finish than last season" - that assumes everyone else stands still. Which they patently haven't. This season is comfortably the most competitive PL season I can remember. That's because it's much stronger than last season, or our title winning season. Therefore, yes we've improved the squad, but the idea that we will automatically collect more points than last season, or should collect more points that last season, is just dumb.

Is it "that" much stronger than last season, though?

Arsenal being the obvious exception, the likes of Chelsea & United have certainly failed to inspire so far this season.

Whichever way you look at it, and no matter how much you look at Arsenal/United/Chelsea/Spurs/Liverpool, they've had no effect on your results against Cardiff, Villa, Stoke & Sunderland.

I don't necessarily agree with those who say the Premier League is much harder this season. This season it needs one team to take the bull by the horns and go on a winning run, and you could quite easily build up a lead. Arsenal have done that so far, but whether it'll continue, who knows.

Chelsea & United have been distinctly average this season, so to find yourselves below them is not down to the league being harder to navigate than last season, but more down to your own performances.

It isn't stronger or the most competitive. ManU lost Taggart which weakened them plus the midfield is still average. Jose still doesn't fancy his squad and has no decent striker. Arsenal have improved but lack depth especially upfront. Liverpool are top 4 challengers at best and the Suarez issue still hanging over them. Spurs lost Bale and invested well but it will take time for it to bed and its a race between this happening and AVB reverting to his gibbering Chelsea days (my money is on AVB physically attacking a Spurs fan with a sawn off clipboard).

Everyone (bar Arsenal) is pretty much muddling around in a sea of mediocrity. We are have comfortably the best team and arguably the best squad in the PL. That we are not woman smacking the PL into submission is, putting it politely, mildly annoying.

 

[Danamy]

We spent money on players to replace outgoing ones. The ones we bought in the summer were all classed as a downgrade on the outgoing players. Whichever way you cut it, the money spent/players bought is an irrelevance and a total red herring.

I agree though that it'd be nice to talk about football rather than Mancini or dissecting stats to try and prove our away form is a shit. It is and it has been for a while, certainly in comparison to our home form.

Something OB1 has repeatedly posted but has been repeatedly ignored is that we are conceding a very small amount of shots on our own goal, and that you would expect over the course of a season for this to be reflected in the results away from home. The anomalous results this season (Cardiff/Villa) have been down to individual mistakes which for the players involved were uncharacteristic.

Of course this doesn't excuse anything because ultimately you either pick up the points or you don't. However it does go some way to showing that although the form is bad, it's fixable and I suspect by the end of the season it will be.

If you're talking about replacing players not replaced last season, yes, perhaps. Navas for Adam Johnson. Jovetic for Balotelli. That's fine, but then we cannot compare to last season's results. I'd be happy to say 11/12 is the benchmark to beat, we've got to improve from there. Otherwise, if we're comparing to last season undoubtedly this squad is better than last season's. In my opinion this squad is the best balanced squad we've had. We got pace on one of the wings. We have an aerial threat who is also a workhorse up front, and we've certainly got more quality long passes coming in from Fernandinho. Those all give us extra dimensions that we've not had before. If you don't agree that we've got a squad better than 11/12 (with Tevez missing for six months), ok, fair enough, matter of opinion, but there's no chance this squad isn't better than last season's.

I don't see it as an anomaly. We've talked about this before. I think the chances the opposition getting now are clearer cut, if you play a high line and use wing-backs there is more space and less players back to cover it. Ergo, we concede more.

But back to the question I have asked before. Just what is the Pellers way and why is it proving so difficult for the players to comprehend when other teams with new managers either with better squads or worse squads are managing to implement their 'philosophies' with comparative success?

This is the one thing that's bugging me about the whole set up, i have in fact answered that question in the past Bob but it obviously got lost in the abyss.

"The Pellers Way" with Malaga and Real the majority of his time was 4-2-3-1, when he's used it here has been effective, it's also (i believe) included our best performances.

I think he's tinkering too much reverting back to 4-4-2 when it's not needed, we have the players to play to his "preferred system" (4-2-3-1) so why change it?

It's starting to bug me as much as Mancini with his persistance with three at the back, why?

 

[neildrum]

Re: Clueless manager

Could not agree more with the comment. What do you expect when we employ a 60 odd year old who has never won anything and never managed in the premier league, has anyone thought about us not qualifying for CL?

Welcome to the forum, rag.

Grow up, believe it or not there are city fans who have been to hundreds of games who live outside chat rooms. Yes really.

I'll vouch for crmcfc here, I work with this guy and he's deffo not a rag, he like me is a long standing seaton ticket holder with the blues!

 

[George Hannah]

If you're talking about replacing players not replaced last season, yes, perhaps. Navas for Adam Johnson. Jovetic for Balotelli. That's fine, but then we cannot compare to last season's results. I'd be happy to say 11/12 is the benchmark to beat, we've got to improve from there. Otherwise, if we're comparing to last season undoubtedly this squad is better than last season's. In my opinion this squad is the best balanced squad we've had. We got pace on one of the wings. We have an aerial threat who is also a workhorse up front, and we've certainly got more quality long passes coming in from Fernandinho. Those all give us extra dimensions that we've not had before. If you don't agree that we've got a squad better than 11/12 (with Tevez missing for six months), ok, fair enough, matter of opinion, but there's no chance this squad isn't better than last season's.

I don't see it as an anomaly. We've talked about this before. I think the chances the opposition getting now are clearer cut, if you play a high line and use wing-backs there is more space and less players back to cover it. Ergo, we concede more.

But back to the question I have asked before. Just what is the Pellers way and why is it proving so difficult for the players to comprehend when other teams with new managers either with better squads or worse squads are managing to implement their 'philosophies' with comparative success?

This is the one thing that's bugging me about the whole set up, i have in fact answered that question in the past Bob but it obviously got lost in the abyss.

"The Pellers Way" with Malaga and Real the majority of his time was 4-2-3-1, when he's used it here has been effective, it's also (i believe) included our best performances.

I think he's tinkering too much reverting back to 4-4-2 when it's not needed, we have the players to play to his "preferred system" (4-2-3-1) so why change it?

It's starting to bug me as much as Mancini with his persistance with three at the back, why?

Pellegrini has to play Aguero - who is not suited to the lone striker role. He feels he can't depart from two up front even when the personnel to make it work aren't available or are outnumbered.

 

[Lucky Toma]

Re: Clueless manager

Welcome to the forum, rag.

Grow up, believe it or not there are city fans who have been to hundreds of games who live outside chat rooms. Yes really.

I'll vouch for crmcfc here, I work with this guy and he's deffo not a rag, he like me is a long standing seaton ticket holder with the blues!

And you are?


(Only messing)

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Re: Clueless manager

Welcome to the forum, rag.

Grow up, believe it or not there are city fans who have been to hundreds of games who live outside chat rooms. Yes really.

I'll vouch for crmcfc here, I work with this guy and he's deffo not a rag, he like me is a long standing seaton ticket holder with the blues!

Definitely something a bit raggy about this one.

 

[Anonymous]

This is the one thing that's bugging me about the whole set up, i have in fact answered that question in the past Bob but it obviously got lost in the abyss.

"The Pellers Way" with Malaga and Real the majority of his time was 4-2-3-1, when he's used it here has been effective, it's also (i believe) included our best performances.

I think he's tinkering too much reverting back to 4-4-2 when it's not needed, we have the players to play to his "preferred system" (4-2-3-1) so why change it?

It's starting to bug me as much as Mancini with his persistance with three at the back, why?

Pellegrini's preferred system is the 4222 we're playing which we he played at Villareal too. I saw an interview with him on the UEFA website in which he said as much. I think with the personnel, particularly the strikers, it's of little surprise that he's using this system at City.

The problem arises when we get injuries to key players. In these moments i definitely think he should look at switching to a 4231 ... I discussed this with wireblue i believe yesterday. The issue at sunderland was ... with Dinho and Rodwell injured - who does he play in the 4231 and who does he drop. Particularly given the form of Negredo and Aguero.

 

[Lucky Toma]

Re: Clueless manager

Grow up, believe it or not there are city fans who have been to hundreds of games who live outside chat rooms. Yes really.

I'll vouch for crmcfc here, I work with this guy and he's deffo not a rag, he like me is a long standing seaton ticket holder with the blues!

Definitely something a bit raggy about this one.

I agree. Let's ban Neildrum and keep crmcfc!!

 

[BobKowalski]

If you're talking about replacing players not replaced last season, yes, perhaps. Navas for Adam Johnson. Jovetic for Balotelli. That's fine, but then we cannot compare to last season's results. I'd be happy to say 11/12 is the benchmark to beat, we've got to improve from there. Otherwise, if we're comparing to last season undoubtedly this squad is better than last season's. In my opinion this squad is the best balanced squad we've had. We got pace on one of the wings. We have an aerial threat who is also a workhorse up front, and we've certainly got more quality long passes coming in from Fernandinho. Those all give us extra dimensions that we've not had before. If you don't agree that we've got a squad better than 11/12 (with Tevez missing for six months), ok, fair enough, matter of opinion, but there's no chance this squad isn't better than last season's.

I don't see it as an anomaly. We've talked about this before. I think the chances the opposition getting now are clearer cut, if you play a high line and use wing-backs there is more space and less players back to cover it. Ergo, we concede more.

Agreed. The number of chances versus quality of chances issue has been debated extensively. Chelsea's 2 goals were both into an empty net, the first from 1 yard out. Sunderland 1 on 1 with the GK. Villa clean through on goal. The long punt upfield and the defence at sea has been a common sight. Arsenal pre-season and losing 3-0 was a warning sign that was airily dismissed by everyone. I still wince at Vincent's post game comments.

I also agree that we should be using the 11/12 season as our benchmark. Instead we console ourselves that 'its better than last season'. Well duh. A season that was ultimately disappointing so yes the whole idea was to make it better than last season. That surely is a minimum. Our aim must be to do better than 11/12. Concede the least, score the most, play good football and win the PL. By any measure we have the best squad even if we are seeing media reports of shipping players in and out (which is no great surprise as I said the other day Pellers cannot be seen to fail so the players will carry the can).

The fact that results wise its actually worse than last season is a legitimate cause for concern. The fact that we seem to be stuck in a sea of uncertainty between what we used to do previously and what Pellers (allegedly) wants us to do this year is also grounds for concern . I say 'allegedly' because I'm not actually seeing what Pellers wants us to do or why the 'Pellers way' still seems to be a riddle wrapped in an enigma as far as the players are concerned. I have asked before, including before the season started, what exactly is the 'Pellers way' and never quite got a straight answer. This I suspect is partly due to Pellers playing a formation that no one foresaw and sticking to that formation bar one game. Pep has Bayern playing his way. Martinez has Everton playing his way. Jose is trying to do as he is told in not having Chelsea play his way (which is funny). So why isn't Pellers having City play his way? What is so fucking difficult about his system that after a full pre-season and what 17 competitive games?... we still pretty much play like we have for the last 2 seasons. Intricate passing around the box, Silva and Nasri coming in narrow and Yaya strolling imperiously around midfield. There are positives. Aguero has got his mojo back and is playing his best football. Ditto Silva. Nasri yes so far (still think he goes missing when it matters). Free kicks much better but corners still on a steady decline and the defence gone to shit. And I'm not even going to mention 'mentality'.

But back to the question I have asked before. Just what is the Pellers way and why is it proving so difficult for the players to comprehend when other teams with new managers either with better squads or worse squads are managing to implement their 'philosophies' with comparative success?

the Pellers way isn't working away from home in the league, whether it be a failure of communication and/or a failure of ability to put it into practice, it's a failure for sure so far. I hope Billy is right and we turn the corner soon but I fear that we won't

My question is wider than that. We are twatting teams at home. But we have consistently twatted teams at home for the last two seasons. Teams schlepping up at our place and deciding not to bother has been meat and drink for a while. That is a hard won legacy over the past 3 years that Pellers is happily taking advantage of and rightly so. I'm talking about the football I was told I would be seeing that 'I had never witnessed before'. Except at home I have. Many times. I was told there would a radical change in the way we play. Well there hasn't. Aguero looks sharper. Whether thats down to Pellers or being injury free and no marital issues hanging over him like last season or all three who knows but its wider than player A being better and player B being worse. I'm talking about a distinctive style change. Like Pep with Bayern or Roberto at Everton. Everyone banged on about the Pellers way so where the hell is it? Why has it not been implemented fully? Are we bothering or just paying lip service and getting caught between the old and new and doing neither very well on a consistent basis?