Discuss Pellegrini (Pt 3)

[coleridge]

As a fully paid up member of the Centre Half's union, I remember that it always took a few games to understand my partner. Each Centre Half naturally took one side at the back and had a different role, one the ball getter, the other waiting for the loose ball and being the back line offside controller and so on. It also helped to know your full backs, always different speeds so you could decide how much cover they needed and at what distance, if they wanted the ball and, oh, I could go on.

Now speed it up several times to Prem level...

I'd give Vinny and Demi a go, as Nasty has time whereas Lescott's [for whatever reason] is now up.

 

[taconinja]

I played in goal for over thirty years (not at anything approaching a decent level) but it occasionally has some relevance; especially when it comes to learning from your mistakes and the part that experience plays in your performance. I am certain that confidence in those in front of you and behind you plays its part and that it is a factor at the moment; one of several factors.

I think you make good points and I am sure that Pellegrini can fashion a more than adequate defence from the resources currently at his disposal, even if he ultimately needs some new personnel. He could be forgiven at this point - at least by me - for not knowing what his best defence (i.e. keeper and back four) is. He has a big decision to make over keeper, let alone which CB pairing to use. Does he fall back to one of our tried and trusted partnerships: Vinnie with Lescott or Nasty or does he pair Vinnie with Demichelis? I'd be given the latter pairing an outing at the first opportunity but it doesn't matter what I think.

I definitely wouldn't underestimate the psychological element in all this. Bob K made the point about last night's game that he thought (the in-form) Silva's entrance lifted his team mates and I don't doubt that it did. Although he has not been infallible this season, Vinnie being back in the team should help the players mind set. Starting Pants in the league for a few games might also help. I would not be surprised if some of the players were as worried for Joe as they are about him; either way no Joe, my free their minds, man.

Fair points. I'm glad the squad grew into the game. It's important when there were so many changes that people not used to (recently at least) playing together competitively. Not sure about Dave's assessment of Clichy, though. He's been off his best for a long, long while now.

Good players very rarely become bad players overnight. Invariably it's injury and/or confidence which pegs their form back. I was having the exact same conversations about Aguero and Silva last year, and even Kompany, who's had a couple of early season dips in his form during his time here. He is far from his best but I believe with a good game or two behind him, hopefully starting on Sunday, and we will see him back to his consitant best again.

Quite possible. My worry is he might be at an age where he's lost a step of pace. It might be the injuries, though. For whatever it's worth, I hope he does recover. He's an asset.

 

[coleridge]

Seen that Vinny to Monaco rumour. Can't help but think that the long-term injuries could be taking their toll. Fantastic as he is, everyone is replaceable, I'm afraid. No room for sentiment at the top but let's hope he gets back to full fitness as I not writing him off just yet. [Sorry, off topic at least twice!].

 

[BobKowalski]

... Starting Pants in the league for a few games might also help. I would not be surprised if some of the players were as worried for Joe as they are about him; either way no Joe, may free their minds, man.

There is a song in there...or a T-shirt slogan.

I am less convinced that our defensive ails will be cured any time soon. I don't buy that its Pellers new system given that the end of Oct is plenty time to work it out and to be honest it looks more and more like the old system with every passing game. I do agree that it is largely in their heads and the defensive malaise is a symptom of this. Yaya said after the Cardiff game we lacked concentration and lack of concentration and focus for the full 90+ minutes has been our undoing. Uncertainty breeds indecision and indecision breeds uncertainty. And yes it is a leadership issue and yes it does bring us back to the thread topic.

Prior to Chelsea we had the obligatory articles coming out of City of 'loving life under Pellers' and 'free at last' etc etc. Coming out of Chelsea it was all tough love and Mourinho's exacting standards. Even today a headline caught my eye about a Chelsea player prepared to sacrifice personal glory for the greater good (or some such nonsense). There is a difference in tone and intensity. We sound as ominous as a hippie love in. They are starting to sound like Mongol hoards ready to sweep across Europe. And I freely admit our 'kumbaya' approach drives me nuts.

I did query that Chelsea are 'faves for the title' earlier because I look at their strikeforce and I look at ours and my head won't have it. In my heart I watch them take on Arsenal with 10 changes and I'm reluctantly impressed. I look at us and our 10 changes and for nigh on 90 mins I'm far from impressed. And Jose has got his smug, shit eating grin back which is another concern.

I didn't play at CB or in goal or any where but I have some idea of leadership and mentality. I knew Hughes would get us no where because he never had the necessary leadership qualities. Hughes was out of depth 5 mins after the takeover. That was obvious and the biggest mistake the board made was not sacking Hughes in the summer of 2009. The second biggest mistake was giving Mancini a 5 year contract when they knew full well that Ferran & Txiki were coming on board that summer. The mix of Ferran/Txiki/Mancini was never going to work even if I did have a romantic notion that it might. But then I'm a fan and the board should know better. Both mistakes were the result of indecision and hoping for the best and both contributed to disruptive seasons.

Pellers is far better than Hughes. Pellers can clearly coach a team. But I don't think he has the ability to instill a driven, winning mentality into the team or to mould it into a results tank that will crush all before it. We are still an excellent team. Its the best we have ever had. We will win lots of games and win some very well. We will also drop too many points and be found wanting when it gets to the shitty, business end of the season. Jose and his Mongol hoards I'm not so sure.

 

[hgblue]

... Starting Pants in the league for a few games might also help. I would not be surprised if some of the players were as worried for Joe as they are about him; either way no Joe, may free their minds, man.

There is a song in there...or a T-shirt slogan.

I am less convinced that our defensive ails will be cured any time soon. I don't buy that its Pellers new system given that the end of Oct is plenty time to work it out and to be honest it looks more and more like the old system with every passing game. I do agree that it is largely in their heads and the defensive malaise is a symptom of this. Yaya said after the Cardiff game we lacked concentration and lack of concentration and focus for the full 90+ minutes has been our undoing. Uncertainty breeds indecision and indecision breeds uncertainty. And yes it is a leadership issue and yes it does bring us back to the thread topic.

Prior to Chelsea we had the obligatory articles coming out of City of 'loving life under Pellers' and 'free at last' etc etc. Coming out of Chelsea it was all tough love and Mourinho's exacting standards. Even today a headline caught my eye about a Chelsea player prepared to sacrifice personal glory for the greater good (or some such nonsense). There is a difference in tone and intensity. We sound as ominous as a hippie love in. They are starting to sound like Mongol hoards ready to sweep across Europe. And I freely admit our 'kumbaya' approach drives me nuts.

I did query that Chelsea are 'faves for the title' earlier because I look at their strikeforce and I look at ours and my head won't have it. In my heart I watch them take on Arsenal with 10 changes and I'm reluctantly impressed. I look at us and our 10 changes and for nigh on 90 mins I'm far from impressed. And Jose has got his smug, shit eating grin back which is another concern.

I didn't play at CB or in goal or any where but I have some idea of leadership and mentality. I knew Hughes would get us no where because he never had the necessary leadership qualities. Hughes was out of depth 5 mins after the takeover. That was obvious and the biggest mistake the board made was not sacking Hughes in the summer of 2009. The second biggest mistake was giving Mancini a 5 year contract when they knew full well that Ferran & Txiki were coming on board that summer. The mix of Ferran/Txiki/Mancini was never going to work even if I did have a romantic notion that it might. But then I'm a fan and the board should know better. Both mistakes were the result of indecision and hoping for the best and both contributed to disruptive seasons.

Pellers is far better than Hughes. Pellers can clearly coach a team. But I don't think he has the ability to instill a driven, winning mentality into the team or to mould it into a results tank that will crush all before it. We are still an excellent team. Its the best we have ever had. We will win lots of games and win some very well. We will also drop too many points and be found wanting when it gets to the shitty, business end of the season. Jose and his Mongol hoards I'm not so sure.

It still amazes me that there were people on here who were celebrating the fact that Mourinho went to Chelsea. A classic case of 'be careful what you wish for', if ever I've seen it. We were unlucky in this game, individual error in that game, dodgy keeping in this game, wrong formation in that game. The excuses keep piling up, but the fact remains we have the strongest squad and are seventh. Do people seriously believe that if Mourinho had inherited this squad we'd be seventh? No chance.

 

[GazM]

... Starting Pants in the league for a few games might also help. I would not be surprised if some of the players were as worried for Joe as they are about him; either way no Joe, may free their minds, man.

There is a song in there...or a T-shirt slogan.

I am less convinced that our defensive ails will be cured any time soon. I don't buy that its Pellers new system given that the end of Oct is plenty time to work it out and to be honest it looks more and more like the old system with every passing game. I do agree that it is largely in their heads and the defensive malaise is a symptom of this. Yaya said after the Cardiff game we lacked concentration and lack of concentration and focus for the full 90+ minutes has been our undoing. Uncertainty breeds indecision and indecision breeds uncertainty. And yes it is a leadership issue and yes it does bring us back to the thread topic.

Prior to Chelsea we had the obligatory articles coming out of City of 'loving life under Pellers' and 'free at last' etc etc. Coming out of Chelsea it was all tough love and Mourinho's exacting standards. Even today a headline caught my eye about a Chelsea player prepared to sacrifice personal glory for the greater good (or some such nonsense). There is a difference in tone and intensity. We sound as ominous as a hippie love in. They are starting to sound like Mongol hoards ready to sweep across Europe. And I freely admit our 'kumbaya' approach drives me nuts.

I did query that Chelsea are 'faves for the title' earlier because I look at their strikeforce and I look at ours and my head won't have it. In my heart I watch them take on Arsenal with 10 changes and I'm reluctantly impressed. I look at us and our 10 changes and for nigh on 90 mins I'm far from impressed. And Jose has got his smug, shit eating grin back which is another concern.

I didn't play at CB or in goal or any where but I have some idea of leadership and mentality. I knew Hughes would get us no where because he never had the necessary leadership qualities. Hughes was out of depth 5 mins after the takeover. That was obvious and the biggest mistake the board made was not sacking Hughes in the summer of 2009. The second biggest mistake was giving Mancini a 5 year contract when they knew full well that Ferran & Txiki were coming on board that summer. The mix of Ferran/Txiki/Mancini was never going to work even if I did have a romantic notion that it might. But then I'm a fan and the board should know better. Both mistakes were the result of indecision and hoping for the best and both contributed to disruptive seasons.

Pellers is far better than Hughes. Pellers can clearly coach a team. But I don't think he has the ability to instill a driven, winning mentality into the team or to mould it into a results tank that will crush all before it. We are still an excellent team. Its the best we have ever had. We will win lots of games and win some very well. We will also drop too many points and be found wanting when it gets to the shitty, business end of the season. Jose and his Mongol hoards I'm not so sure.

Good post. We won't win owt unless something changes...mentality is key.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

... Starting Pants in the league for a few games might also help. I would not be surprised if some of the players were as worried for Joe as they are about him; either way no Joe, may free their minds, man.

There is a song in there...or a T-shirt slogan.

I am less convinced that our defensive ails will be cured any time soon. I don't buy that its Pellers new system given that the end of Oct is plenty time to work it out and to be honest it looks more and more like the old system with every passing game. I do agree that it is largely in their heads and the defensive malaise is a symptom of this. Yaya said after the Cardiff game we lacked concentration and lack of concentration and focus for the full 90+ minutes has been our undoing. Uncertainty breeds indecision and indecision breeds uncertainty. And yes it is a leadership issue and yes it does bring us back to the thread topic.

Prior to Chelsea we had the obligatory articles coming out of City of 'loving life under Pellers' and 'free at last' etc etc. Coming out of Chelsea it was all tough love and Mourinho's exacting standards. Even today a headline caught my eye about a Chelsea player prepared to sacrifice personal glory for the greater good (or some such nonsense). There is a difference in tone and intensity. We sound as ominous as a hippie love in. They are starting to sound like Mongol hoards ready to sweep across Europe. And I freely admit our 'kumbaya' approach drives me nuts.

I did query that Chelsea are 'faves for the title' earlier because I look at their strikeforce and I look at ours and my head won't have it. In my heart I watch them take on Arsenal with 10 changes and I'm reluctantly impressed. I look at us and our 10 changes and for nigh on 90 mins I'm far from impressed. And Jose has got his smug, shit eating grin back which is another concern.

I didn't play at CB or in goal or any where but I have some idea of leadership and mentality. I knew Hughes would get us no where because he never had the necessary leadership qualities. Hughes was out of depth 5 mins after the takeover. That was obvious and the biggest mistake the board made was not sacking Hughes in the summer of 2009. The second biggest mistake was giving Mancini a 5 year contract when they knew full well that Ferran & Txiki were coming on board that summer. The mix of Ferran/Txiki/Mancini was never going to work even if I did have a romantic notion that it might. But then I'm a fan and the board should know better. Both mistakes were the result of indecision and hoping for the best and both contributed to disruptive seasons.

Pellers is far better than Hughes. Pellers can clearly coach a team. But I don't think he has the ability to instill a driven, winning mentality into the team or to mould it into a results tank that will crush all before it. We are still an excellent team. Its the best we have ever had. We will win lots of games and win some very well. We will also drop too many points and be found wanting when it gets to the shitty, business end of the season. Jose and his Mongol hoards I'm not so sure.

I think you are drawing a cartoon, press-driven opinion of both managers there, if I'm honest. Mourinho is of course a great manager, and his teams usually over-achieve because of his methods. But Pellegrini also has a career of teams over-achieving, so I'm still very hopeful he'll do the same with this superb squad. It was very noticeable that Mr Kumbaya's squad were significantly fitter than Hard Man Pardew's last night, so it's not all flowers and early days off at Carrington.

But time will tell, and let's see how the season pans out.

 

[OB1]

I am less convinced that our defensive ails will be cured any time soon. I don't buy that its Pellers new system given that the end of Oct is plenty time to work it out and to be honest it looks more and more like the old system with every passing game. I do agree that it is largely in their heads and the defensive malaise is a symptom of this. Yaya said after the Cardiff game we lacked concentration and lack of concentration and focus for the full 90+ minutes has been our undoing. Uncertainty breeds indecision and indecision breeds uncertainty. And yes it is a leadership issue and yes it does bring us back to the thread topic.

Prior to Chelsea we had the obligatory articles coming out of City of 'loving life under Pellers' and 'free at last' etc etc. Coming out of Chelsea it was all tough love and Mourinho's exacting standards. Even today a headline caught my eye about a Chelsea player prepared to sacrifice personal glory for the greater good (or some such nonsense). There is a difference in tone and intensity. We sound as ominous as a hippie love in. They are starting to sound like Mongol hoards ready to sweep across Europe. And I freely admit our 'kumbaya' approach drives me nuts.

I did query that Chelsea are 'faves for the title' earlier because I look at their strikeforce and I look at ours and my head won't have it. In my heart I watch them take on Arsenal with 10 changes and I'm reluctantly impressed. I look at us and our 10 changes and for nigh on 90 mins I'm far from impressed. And Jose has got his smug, shit eating grin back which is another concern.

I didn't play at CB or in goal or any where but I have some idea of leadership and mentality. I knew Hughes would get us no where because he never had the necessary leadership qualities. Hughes was out of depth 5 mins after the takeover. That was obvious and the biggest mistake the board made was not sacking Hughes in the summer of 2009. The second biggest mistake was giving Mancini a 5 year contract when they knew full well that Ferran & Txiki were coming on board that summer. The mix of Ferran/Txiki/Mancini was never going to work even if I did have a romantic notion that it might. But then I'm a fan and the board should know better. Both mistakes were the result of indecision and hoping for the best and both contributed to disruptive seasons.

Pellers is far better than Hughes. Pellers can clearly coach a team. But I don't think he has the ability to instill a driven, winning mentality into the team or to mould it into a results tank that will crush all before it. We are still an excellent team. Its the best we have ever had. We will win lots of games and win some very well. We will also drop too many points and be found wanting when it gets to the shitty, business end of the season. Jose and his Mongol hoards I'm not so sure.

I think you are drawing a cartoon, press-driven opinion of both managers there, if I'm honest. Mourinho is of course a great manager, and his teams usually over-achieve because of his methods. But Pellegrini also has a career of teams over-achieving, so I'm still very hopeful he'll do the same with this superb squad. It was very noticeable that Mr Kumbaya's squad were significantly fitter than Hard Man Pardew's last night, so it's not all flowers and early days off at Carrington.

But time will tell, and let's see how the season pans out.

A lot of people, including it seems our top brass, didn't want Mourinho at City; some of us would have had him here ahead of Pellegrini. I hope that is something that the club do not come to regret but I certainly can't promise that will be the case.

I don't though think that Pellegrini is some sort of soft touch or someone who won't be trying to instill the right sort of mentality in his players. One of the things that I thought I had learnt about Pellegrini is that he tries to build a belief in his players that they can beat anyone (which shouldn't be the hardest task at City).

I differ from Bob on the amount of time needed to perfect what Pellegrini is trying to do; especially when he has not been helped by injuries and player error. I may be proven wrong here but it will be months before I am prepared to make that conclusion.

On the fitness issue from the Newcastle game, we did have a fresher set of players and that must have had some significance. However, Dzeko did make reference in his post match interview to the preseason work done by City and he obviously felt that it had helped them get the better of Newcastle.

 

[BufordUSABlue]

... Starting Pants in the league for a few games might also help. I would not be surprised if some of the players were as worried for Joe as they are about him; either way no Joe, may free their minds, man.

There is a song in there...or a T-shirt slogan.

I am less convinced that our defensive ails will be cured any time soon. I don't buy that its Pellers new system given that the end of Oct is plenty time to work it out and to be honest it looks more and more like the old system with every passing game. I do agree that it is largely in their heads and the defensive malaise is a symptom of this. Yaya said after the Cardiff game we lacked concentration and lack of concentration and focus for the full 90+ minutes has been our undoing. Uncertainty breeds indecision and indecision breeds uncertainty. And yes it is a leadership issue and yes it does bring us back to the thread topic.

Prior to Chelsea we had the obligatory articles coming out of City of 'loving life under Pellers' and 'free at last' etc etc. Coming out of Chelsea it was all tough love and Mourinho's exacting standards. Even today a headline caught my eye about a Chelsea player prepared to sacrifice personal glory for the greater good (or some such nonsense). There is a difference in tone and intensity. We sound as ominous as a hippie love in. They are starting to sound like Mongol hoards ready to sweep across Europe. And I freely admit our 'kumbaya' approach drives me nuts.

I did query that Chelsea are 'faves for the title' earlier because I look at their strikeforce and I look at ours and my head won't have it. In my heart I watch them take on Arsenal with 10 changes and I'm reluctantly impressed. I look at us and our 10 changes and for nigh on 90 mins I'm far from impressed. And Jose has got his smug, shit eating grin back which is another concern.

I didn't play at CB or in goal or any where but I have some idea of leadership and mentality. I knew Hughes would get us no where because he never had the necessary leadership qualities. Hughes was out of depth 5 mins after the takeover. That was obvious and the biggest mistake the board made was not sacking Hughes in the summer of 2009. The second biggest mistake was giving Mancini a 5 year contract when they knew full well that Ferran & Txiki were coming on board that summer. The mix of Ferran/Txiki/Mancini was never going to work even if I did have a romantic notion that it might. But then I'm a fan and the board should know better. Both mistakes were the result of indecision and hoping for the best and both contributed to disruptive seasons.

Pellers is far better than Hughes. Pellers can clearly coach a team. But I don't think he has the ability to instill a driven, winning mentality into the team or to mould it into a results tank that will crush all before it. We are still an excellent team. Its the best we have ever had. We will win lots of games and win some very well. We will also drop too many points and be found wanting when it gets to the shitty, business end of the season. Jose and his Mongol hoards I'm not so sure.

I think you are drawing a cartoon, press-driven opinion of both managers there, if I'm honest. Mourinho is of course a great manager, and his teams usually over-achieve because of his methods. But Pellegrini also has a career of teams over-achieving, so I'm still very hopeful he'll do the same with this superb squad. It was very noticeable that Mr Kumbaya's squad were significantly fitter than Hard Man Pardew's last night, so it's not all flowers and early days off at Carrington.

But time will tell, and let's see how the season pans out.

Significant comment from Edin after the game as well on how hard they all worked in the pre-season.....

 

[BobKowalski]

I think you are drawing a cartoon, press-driven opinion of both managers there, if I'm honest. Mourinho is of course a great manager, and his teams usually over-achieve because of his methods. But Pellegrini also has a career of teams over-achieving, so I'm still very hopeful he'll do the same with this superb squad. It was very noticeable that Mr Kumbaya's squad were significantly fitter than Hard Man Pardew's last night, so it's not all flowers and early days off at Carrington.

But time will tell, and let's see how the season pans out.

Physical preparation and mentality are not the same thing. By all accounts Moyes also implemented a tougher training schedule than Taggart ever did which has led to stories of a rift with RVP and 'over training' - its possible that Kompany's early season problems also stem from over preparation in pre-season. Who knows.

However the pre-season physical preparation, which got everyone excited on here for reasons which still continue to elude me, are distinct from the mental environment that the man in charge creates. Moyes stepping up the physical training does nothing to give his team the same belief that Taggart gave them. Pellers is a less driven, less obsessive individual than Mancini (or a Benitez or a Mourinho or a Pep) and consequently the team is less driven to go the extra 1 or 2 percent that is the difference between success and failure at the highest level. It is not even a concious thing but you just settle at the level that is expected of you collectively and individually by the man in charge. And with Pellers this level is below what is needed to win trophies consistently.