Discuss Pellegrini (Pt 3)

[FantasyIreland]

Pellers is a less driven, less obsessive individual than Mancini (or a Benitez or a Mourinho or a Pep) and consequently the team is less driven to go the extra 1 or 2 percent that is the difference between success and failure at the highest level. It is not even a concious thing but you just settle at the level that is expected of you collectively and individually by the man in charge. And with Pellers this level is below what is needed to win trophies consistently.

I don't know the man personally so I can only gauge his character from interviews etc.... and even then that's sketchy at best.However,i see a man,when the chips are down or he is being 'attacked',who comes out fighting and takes no nonsense.

What are you basing your opinion/assumption of his character on?

 

[crystal_mais]

I think you are drawing a cartoon, press-driven opinion of both managers there, if I'm honest. Mourinho is of course a great manager, and his teams usually over-achieve because of his methods. But Pellegrini also has a career of teams over-achieving, so I'm still very hopeful he'll do the same with this superb squad. It was very noticeable that Mr Kumbaya's squad were significantly fitter than Hard Man Pardew's last night, so it's not all flowers and early days off at Carrington.

But time will tell, and let's see how the season pans out.

Physical preparation and mentality are not the same thing. By all accounts Moyes also implemented a tougher training schedule than Taggart ever did which has led to stories of a rift with RVP and 'over training' - its possible that Kompany's early season problems also stem from over preparation in pre-season. Who knows.

However the pre-season physical preparation, which got everyone excited on here for reasons which still continue to elude me, are distinct from the mental environment that the man in charge creates. Moyes stepping up the physical training does nothing to give his team the same belief that Taggart gave them. Pellers is a less driven, less obsessive individual than Mancini (or a Benitez or a Mourinho or a Pep) and consequently the team is less driven to go the extra 1 or 2 percent that is the difference between success and failure at the highest level. It is not even a concious thing but you just settle at the level that is expected of you collectively and individually by the man in charge. And with Pellers this level is below what is needed to win trophies consistently.

Hilarious post - pissing myself here

 

[Phil1]

Not sure how much can be read into last night. The line up played exactly like I thought they would. Cagey, slow build up, no real rhythm or tempo. It's what you get when you make wholesale changes and the players brought in aren't of the calibre of those rested. There didn't seem to be any real connection between the back four and midfield and the quick incisive passes inside the opposition that YaYa, Fernandinho, and Silva are capable of was sadly lacking and we were left with a more pedestrian way of playing.
To go away with the win was all that counted, and we managed it with 2 bits of real quality and without conceding. Considering the atrocious performance against Villa in the same competition last year I'd have taken that all day long.

 

[George Hannah]

Pellers is a less driven, less obsessive individual than Mancini (or a Benitez or a Mourinho or a Pep) and consequently the team is less driven to go the extra 1 or 2 percent that is the difference between success and failure at the highest level. It is not even a concious thing but you just settle at the level that is expected of you collectively and individually by the man in charge. And with Pellers this level is below what is needed to win trophies consistently.

I just wish Pellers was driven to the airport as soon as possible, if dignified venerability is what we need I'm sure Brian Kidd will suffice. Get that Pochettino in and tell him to bring Shaw, Schneiderlin, Clyne, Ward-Prowse, Lovren, Ramirez, Boruc and Lallana with him...;-)

 

[BobKowalski]

Pellers is a less driven, less obsessive individual than Mancini (or a Benitez or a Mourinho or a Pep) and consequently the team is less driven to go the extra 1 or 2 percent that is the difference between success and failure at the highest level. It is not even a concious thing but you just settle at the level that is expected of you collectively and individually by the man in charge. And with Pellers this level is below what is needed to win trophies consistently.

I don't know the man personally so I can only gauge his character from interviews etc.... and even then that's sketchy at best.However,i see a man,when the chips are down or he is being 'attacked',who comes out fighting and takes no nonsense.

What are you basing your opinion/assumption of his character on?

Your observation is that you see a man 'when the chips are down or he is being 'attacked',who comes out fighting and takes no nonsense'. My observation is what I outlined in my previous post and others before it. We are both looking at the same information and drawing different conclusions. There is nothing different that I am seeing that you are seeing. Its just that we interpret it differently. It was the same with Hughes when I advocated his dismissal the day after the takeover or when I pinned my colours to the Mancini standard a couple of months in to his tenure. I actually said about Mancini that he would create a harsh environment and would last about 3 years before everyone got fed up with it but it would be a good 3 years. We observe. We draw a conclusion. Time will tell if that conclusion is valid or not.

 

[FantasyIreland]

Pellers is a less driven, less obsessive individual than Mancini (or a Benitez or a Mourinho or a Pep) and consequently the team is less driven to go the extra 1 or 2 percent that is the difference between success and failure at the highest level. It is not even a concious thing but you just settle at the level that is expected of you collectively and individually by the man in charge. And with Pellers this level is below what is needed to win trophies consistently.

I don't know the man personally so I can only gauge his character from interviews etc.... and even then that's sketchy at best.However,i see a man,when the chips are down or he is being 'attacked',who comes out fighting and takes no nonsense.

What are you basing your opinion/assumption of his character on?

Your observation is that you see a man 'when the chips are down or he is being 'attacked',who comes out fighting and takes no nonsense'. My observation is what I outlined in my previous post and others before it. We are both looking at the same information and drawing different conclusions. There is nothing different that I am seeing that you are seeing. Its just that we interpret it differently. It was the same with Hughes when I advocated his dismissal the day after the takeover or when I pinned my colours to the Mancini standard a couple of months in to his tenure. I actually said about Mancini that he would create a harsh environment and would last about 3 years before everyone got fed up with it but it would be a good 3 years. We observe. We draw a conclusion. Time will tell if that conclusion is valid or not.

Ok,so your assumption about Pellegrini's character is about as credible as mine,not very.........

 

[BluessinceHydeRoad]

I don't have a clue what Pellegrini is like, I don't understand his personality and I haven't been handed a psychological profile of the man. And, to be quite honest I'm not too bothered what he's like, I don't particularly care what his personality is like and I probably wouldn't read a profile even if I had nothing else to do. I don't seek any deep spiritual communion with him. What I really care about is the team he puts on the field and the kind of football it plays. And last night I saw the same defensive fragility as in most of our games this season. Different defenders, same inability to deal with the good old high hoof. Different defenders, same inability to follow the man they're marking at a corner. Repeatedly we saw Newcastle lads not even having to shake off their "marker" so much as move away from him. There isn't much sign of improvement in this area of the game, and if he doesn't get a grip soon it will undermine our whole season.

 

[bluemoonmatt]

Dids Dave pointed out Mourinho teams over perform and so do Peelegrini teams. Now I'm not saying I've lost patience but I'm not seeing evidence of over performing with us. Agreed its early days but nevertheless this squad by most pundits agreement is the best man for man in the league. I tend to agree and I believe we are by some distance. Now the previous manager who we'll not go into transferred that squad into the second best team in the league but he was up against (through gritted teeth I say this) a legendary persona. This year the rags are performing at the level their squad should have been for the last couple of years. Ours on the other hand is definitely under performing. I'm not sure I'm even in the give him time camp, we just aren't playing to the level this squad is capable of. We had fleeting moments against Chelsea, but not since we took apart the rags have we even looked convincing. We were good against them, Newcastle and in part against Chelsea, Every other game has been poor. I'm not convinved

 

[teddykgb]

I don't have a clue what Pellegrini is like, I don't understand his personality and I haven't been handed a psychological profile of the man. And, to be quite honest I'm not too bothered what he's like, I don't particularly care what his personality is like and I probably wouldn't read a profile even if I had nothing else to do. I don't seek any deep spiritual communion with him. What I really care about is the team he puts on the field and the kind of football it plays. And last night I saw the same defensive fragility as in most of our games this season. Different defenders, same inability to deal with the good old high hoof. Different defenders, same inability to follow the man they're marking at a corner. Repeatedly we saw Newcastle lads not even having to shake off their "marker" so much as move away from him. There isn't much sign of improvement in this area of the game, and if he doesn't get a grip soon it will undermine our whole season.

So what is the manager supposed to do? Do you think they're having training sessions and he's telling them "Hey, don't worry about leaving open runners, they're no big deal". Maybe you think he's instructing them "on those long balls over the top, it's imperative that you really make it hard on ourselves and our fans, try to make things interesting!"

The fact that we were equally shambolic yesterday as we have been all season points to the fact that there's very little the manager can do. If the starting XI can't get its act together, and the backup defenders are equally bad, then we've got a host of defenders who currently aren't good enough. I know that a lot of these players have been a part of some really impressive statistical defenses, but past performance hardly guarantees future success. Unless you've got something specific tactically that the Manager needs to change (and FFS, it isn't asking the FBs to bomb on less, they're already bombing on less than in the past), then you're largely talking about selection situations. What's become clear is that you can chop and change the backups and starting XI as you'd like and it appears we don't have the necessary strength regardless of the way you mix it up. This is, unfortunately, a transfer window problem, unless DiMichelis and Kompany can form a partnership and stay fit. Either way, I honestly believe that a lot of the vulnerability we're seeing is a mixture of luck and a serious slip by all of our fullbacks. If I were Txixi, and you can all thank fuck that I'm not, I'd probably be focusing on that area in Jan. and next summer. I think we're a class below and it's having an effect on the squad.

 

[Anonymous]

I think you are drawing a cartoon, press-driven opinion of both managers there, if I'm honest. Mourinho is of course a great manager, and his teams usually over-achieve because of his methods. But Pellegrini also has a career of teams over-achieving, so I'm still very hopeful he'll do the same with this superb squad. It was very noticeable that Mr Kumbaya's squad were significantly fitter than Hard Man Pardew's last night, so it's not all flowers and early days off at Carrington.

But time will tell, and let's see how the season pans out.

Physical preparation and mentality are not the same thing. By all accounts Moyes also implemented a tougher training schedule than Taggart ever did which has led to stories of a rift with RVP and 'over training' - its possible that Kompany's early season problems also stem from over preparation in pre-season. Who knows.

However the pre-season physical preparation, which got everyone excited on here for reasons which still continue to elude me, are distinct from the mental environment that the man in charge creates. Moyes stepping up the physical training does nothing to give his team the same belief that Taggart gave them. Pellers is a less driven, less obsessive individual than Mancini (or a Benitez or a Mourinho or a Pep) and consequently the team is less driven to go the extra 1 or 2 percent that is the difference between success and failure at the highest level. It is not even a concious thing but you just settle at the level that is expected of you collectively and individually by the man in charge. And with Pellers this level is below what is needed to win trophies consistently.

Hilarious post - pissing myself here

In case you've been living under a bluemoon rock for the last six months. Bob loved Bob and hasn't come to terms with his sacking. :)