Discuss Pellegrini (Pt 3)

[citymad]

Yep we have done pretty well it's just that late goal was a kick in the bollocks putting us further away from Chelsea who for me are favourites for the title. If Pelegrini can win this cup it'll be a big step for him regarding us fans believing in him as a winning manager..

I still can't accept Chelsea as faves for the title. Even if Jose seems to have reanimated the walking dead in Torres I still think they lack quality upfront. On a purely personal note I would like to see us lift the League Cup. Sort of gives us the full set domestically as it were.

There favourites for me because of Mourinho just can't see them going through a real bad patch..

Same here. They still have the likes of Luiz, Essien Bertrand and that other geezer with the long name who are well capable of coming in and doing a solid job defensively when called upon. Oscar, Ramirez, Mata, Hazard and William are as good as it gets creatively and Torres looks back to his best . Difference between us and Chelsea is the quality of our defence. We are simply not good enough. Plus the fact we've used up our "allowable" defeats way to early and still have to play Liverpool, Spurs and Southampton.

 

[Danielmanc]

Wonder what Pellegrini thought about some of the City support singing the "Mancini whoa oh" song for a short while last night ?

 

[kippaxblue76]

Apart from the enforced change I thought for the first time this season he made the right sub at the right time, for me he usually leaves it until it is too late but full marks for bringing on Silva and putting Milner in the middle, it changed the game and from them on we had almost total control.

 

[blue ranger]

Think the game changing moment last night was the introduction of silva - got us playing and linked the midfield to the strikers. Actually thought Garcia did ok but him and Rodwell offered absolutely nothing going forwards. The biggest positive for me was when MP moved Milner into the middle, which I think is his best position. Hopefully MP recognised his contribution and he is ahead of Garcia and Rodwell in the pecking order now

 

[FantasyIreland]

Wonder what Pellegrini thought about some of the City support singing the "Mancini whoa oh" song for a short while last night ?

I doubt it would have bothered him at all,unfortunately every club has its share of imbeciles that embarrass themselves on occasion.

 

[OB1]

Here we go again. It's late and I'm off to bed so I will be brief.

For what it's worth I played as a centre half for 20 years, but that's not hugely relevant.

What I've seen is a series of injuries to Vincent kompany. And to demichelis. And to nastasic. And to clichy. I've also seen a failed bid for pepe and a Sheikh with a bulging wallet. But more than that I've seen a defence implementing a new system in front of a goalkeeper who is nervy and hesitant and not calling like he used to. And I've seen this before, many times, in teams. It gets in your head as a defender, its like a forward who forgets how to score: when you're under pressure the ghost of the previous error comes into your mind and you hesitate for that split second, you lose your conviction. Mistakes become self-perpetuating.

But if you have the right players, and we do, things turn round. As a defensive unit if you get things right a few times your confidence grows. You start to play with conviction. You don't hesitate in tight situations. The mistakes are suddenly behind you and you go out on the park believing that you are invincible. And that happens quicker and more effectively if you feel confident in the players alongside you, amd you know they are composed and playing well.

Kompany will be back soon. Clichy will come back to form. The goalkeeping problems will be banished. The defence will have played and been coached more and more in the new system. And I believe that we will get more and more solid as a unit as the season goes by. We won't be like the old '1-0 to the arsenal 'George graham side, but we will score a shedload of goals if we keep aguero and silva fit, and that will do me nicely.

I played in goal for over thirty years (not at anything approaching a decent level) but it occasionally has some relevance; especially when it comes to learning from your mistakes and the part that experience plays in your performance. I am certain that confidence in those in front of you and behind you plays its part and that it is a factor at the moment; one of several factors.

I think you make good points and I am sure that Pellegrini can fashion a more than adequate defence from the resources currently at his disposal, even if he ultimately needs some new personnel. He could be forgiven at this point - at least by me - for not knowing what his best defence (i.e. keeper and back four) is. He has a big decision to make over keeper, let alone which CB pairing to use. Does he fall back to one of our tried and trusted partnerships: Vinnie with Lescott or Nasty or does he pair Vinnie with Demichelis? I'd be given the latter pairing an outing at the first opportunity but it doesn't matter what I think.

I definitely wouldn't underestimate the psychological element in all this. Bob K made the point about last night's game that he thought (the in-form) Silva's entrance lifted his team mates and I don't doubt that it did. Although he has not been infallible this season, Vinnie being back in the team should help the players mind set. Starting Pants in the league for a few games might also help. I would not be surprised if some of the players were as worried for Joe as they are about him; either way no Joe, my free their minds, man.

 

[taconinja]

Here we go again. It's late and I'm off to bed so I will be brief.

For what it's worth I played as a centre half for 20 years, but that's not hugely relevant.

What I've seen is a series of injuries to Vincent kompany. And to demichelis. And to nastasic. And to clichy. I've also seen a failed bid for pepe and a Sheikh with a bulging wallet. But more than that I've seen a defence implementing a new system in front of a goalkeeper who is nervy and hesitant and not calling like he used to. And I've seen this before, many times, in teams. It gets in your head as a defender, its like a forward who forgets how to score: when you're under pressure the ghost of the previous error comes into your mind and you hesitate for that split second, you lose your conviction. Mistakes become self-perpetuating.

But if you have the right players, and we do, things turn round. As a defensive unit if you get things right a few times your confidence grows. You start to play with conviction. You don't hesitate in tight situations. The mistakes are suddenly behind you and you go out on the park believing that you are invincible. And that happens quicker and more effectively if you feel confident in the players alongside you, amd you know they are composed and playing well.

Kompany will be back soon. Clichy will come back to form. The goalkeeping problems will be banished. The defence will have played and been coached more and more in the new system. And I believe that we will get more and more solid as a unit as the season goes by. We won't be like the old '1-0 to the arsenal 'George graham side, but we will score a shedload of goals if we keep aguero and silva fit, and that will do me nicely.

I played in goal for over thirty years (not at anything approaching a decent level) but it occasionally has some relevance; especially when it comes to learning from your mistakes and the part that experience plays in your performance. I am certain that confidence in those in front of you and behind you plays its part and that it is a factor at the moment; one of several factors.

I think you make good points and I am sure that Pellegrini can fashion a more than adequate defence from the resources currently at his disposal, even if he ultimately needs some new personnel. He could be forgiven at this point - at least by me - for not knowing what his best defence (i.e. keeper and back four) is. He has a big decision to make over keeper, let alone which CB pairing to use. Does he fall back to one of our tried and trusted partnerships: Vinnie with Lescott or Nasty or does he pair Vinnie with Demichelis? I'd be given the latter pairing an outing at the first opportunity but it doesn't matter what I think.

I definitely wouldn't underestimate the psychological element in all this. Bob K made the point about last night's game that he thought (the in-form) Silva's entrance lifted his team mates and I don't doubt that it did. Although he has not been infallible this season, Vinnie being back in the team should help the players mind set. Starting Pants in the league for a few games might also help. I would not be surprised if some of the players were as worried for Joe as they are about him; either way no Joe, my free their minds, man.

Fair points. I'm glad the squad grew into the game. It's important when there were so many changes that people not used to (recently at least) playing together competitively. Not sure about Dave's assessment of Clichy, though. He's been off his best for a long, long while now.

 

[Le Havre Oswald]

Wonder what Pellegrini thought about some of the City support singing the "Mancini whoa oh" song for a short while last night ?

I doubt it would have bothered him at all,unfortunately every club has its share of imbeciles that embarrass themselves on occasion.

Wow I didn't know that.

What a bunch of sad twats.

 

[Anonymous]

Well for a start it was a reserve back four, and three of them have played almost no league football this year. And I am struggling to remember a chance Newcastle had, apart from that one in extra time. Where the back four did struggle was their distribution, mainly because all four of them are very poor passers. That's what kept the ball coming back at us in the first 30 minutes, and was compounded because the reserve midfield kept giving it away.

After half time Newcastle barely threatened and we defended their setpieces fine. And the silva sub changed the game

I hate to sound a bit trite, but we have just gone up to Newcastle with a reserve back seven, kept a clean sheet and not come under much pressure at all. That will do me.

We are making defensive errors in the league but that's not something that was relevant in tonight's game.

As an aside, What I did like was that we looked a lot fitter than Newcastle.

Sounds less like a discussion than a list of excuses. Its a reserve back 4 yes but making similar errors to any other combination of back 4 we have had this season. That you are struggling to remember a chance Newcastle had other than the one in ET is bit of an eyebrow raiser. I assume you are forgetting (and I am just plucking one at random) the disallowed goal where if Cisse could hit straight or Ameobi held his run a fraction longer we would have been 1-0 down.

In the first half we are were under pressure and our defending like the rest of our play was borderline wretched. We are continually undone by the long ball and do not cope with pressure. This has been a common theme all season so is relevant to our league performances.

Second half we improved and the introduction of Silva was key - see previous post for an explanation.

As I also said in another post there is no need to big up the manager or defend the performance as we are not strangers to playing dourly and winning. Sometimes you just get the job done. So I will take the win, chuckle over a plum QF draw and pop open the champers.

But we do need to address the defensive issues. Cardiff was the warning klaxon and it is still loud as ever.

Let me make one thing absolutely and abundantly clear. I am not here to 'big up' or 'make excuses' for Pellegrini. He's our manager and I will do exactly the same as I have done with every other manager over the last 35 years: I will watch him and evaluate him on an ongoing basis. I have no emotional investment in him, I didn't recruit or clamour for him. If I don't rate him or he fucks up I will damn well say, just like I did with all the others. I don't wear a city shirt or put posters on my wall and I certainly don't go in for hero worship. Don't patronise me with binary emotions like that because you've got the wrong bloke.

He, like all the others, is an employee of the club and I want, and expect, him to get the best from the players he is charged with managing. I'm giving my opinion on this thread like I have always done on all the others: from the bottom of my heart like I do at the game and in the pub after the game.

We are making defensive errors in the league. There are small cane toads on the south coast of Australia who can see that. I've seen enough to believe we will put them right, but that's a discussion that's ongoing. But tonight I thought we defended well after we settled down and got a clean sheet with a reserve back four away from home. That's nothing to do with being precious about or defending anyone.

That's how I saw it.

Cracking post. You speak for me too.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

Here we go again. It's late and I'm off to bed so I will be brief.

For what it's worth I played as a centre half for 20 years, but that's not hugely relevant.

What I've seen is a series of injuries to Vincent kompany. And to demichelis. And to nastasic. And to clichy. I've also seen a failed bid for pepe and a Sheikh with a bulging wallet. But more than that I've seen a defence implementing a new system in front of a goalkeeper who is nervy and hesitant and not calling like he used to. And I've seen this before, many times, in teams. It gets in your head as a defender, its like a forward who forgets how to score: when you're under pressure the ghost of the previous error comes into your mind and you hesitate for that split second, you lose your conviction. Mistakes become self-perpetuating.

But if you have the right players, and we do, things turn round. As a defensive unit if you get things right a few times your confidence grows. You start to play with conviction. You don't hesitate in tight situations. The mistakes are suddenly behind you and you go out on the park believing that you are invincible. And that happens quicker and more effectively if you feel confident in the players alongside you, amd you know they are composed and playing well.

Kompany will be back soon. Clichy will come back to form. The goalkeeping problems will be banished. The defence will have played and been coached more and more in the new system. And I believe that we will get more and more solid as a unit as the season goes by. We won't be like the old '1-0 to the arsenal 'George graham side, but we will score a shedload of goals if we keep aguero and silva fit, and that will do me nicely.

I played in goal for over thirty years (not at anything approaching a decent level) but it occasionally has some relevance; especially when it comes to learning from your mistakes and the part that experience plays in your performance. I am certain that confidence in those in front of you and behind you plays its part and that it is a factor at the moment; one of several factors.

I think you make good points and I am sure that Pellegrini can fashion a more than adequate defence from the resources currently at his disposal, even if he ultimately needs some new personnel. He could be forgiven at this point - at least by me - for not knowing what his best defence (i.e. keeper and back four) is. He has a big decision to make over keeper, let alone which CB pairing to use. Does he fall back to one of our tried and trusted partnerships: Vinnie with Lescott or Nasty or does he pair Vinnie with Demichelis? I'd be given the latter pairing an outing at the first opportunity but it doesn't matter what I think.

I definitely wouldn't underestimate the psychological element in all this. Bob K made the point about last night's game that he thought (the in-form) Silva's entrance lifted his team mates and I don't doubt that it did. Although he has not been infallible this season, Vinnie being back in the team should help the players mind set. Starting Pants in the league for a few games might also help. I would not be surprised if some of the players were as worried for Joe as they are about him; either way no Joe, my free their minds, man.

Fair points. I'm glad the squad grew into the game. It's important when there were so many changes that people not used to (recently at least) playing together competitively. Not sure about Dave's assessment of Clichy, though. He's been off his best for a long, long while now.

Good players very rarely become bad players overnight. Invariably it's injury and/or confidence which pegs their form back. I was having the exact same conversations about Aguero and Silva last year, and even Kompany, who's had a couple of early season dips in his form during his time here. He is far from his best but I believe with a good game or two behind him, hopefully starting on Sunday, and we will see him back to his consitant best again.