Discuss Pellegrini (Pt 4)

[Summerbuzz]

Silva returning isnt the answer any more than kompany was. I think our approach is arrogant. Cbs try to win every ball rather than quell the danger. Midfielders try to attack evert time rather than nurse the ball and make the opposition work. Attackers not pressing. More structured possession, basic stuff ALONG THE DECK and we may have seen it out. As it is we are a bit too in love with our ability to play exciting football, when the edge goes from the performance, we look average.

 

[teddykgb]

I'm not sure it's a system problem. It's easy to say we are being outnumbered in midfield, but even when we brought Garcia on very little changed. My personal opinion is that we had a few too many one dimensional players in the side at once today. A team with Garcia and Kolarov in it is simply begging to be pressed. Zaba, as much as I love him, is also a bit one footed. DeMichelis, when played on his weaker side, was also very one footed (Lescott would have been similarly one footed but on the other foot). We really struggled to ping the ball about and relieve pressure, which was not aided by Nasri having a slightly rough match. Yaya and Fernandinho were pressed to spread the ball to players who just couldn't do much to take advantage of the increased aggression. I think fatigue played a factor, and probably Navas was needed much earlier to try to provide a speedy outlet for the CMs.

From the manager's perspective, I think he mostly pulled the right strings, I've been (half) surprised at the negativity directed towards him. He sat Negredo mid week to keep him rested for this match, and got Milner in which made sense at the time. We dominated again early, but things fell apart late in the 2nd half. Like most managers, he tried to get a feel for it in the early 2nd half, and changed it as Soton had been dominating play, bringing on Garcia for a striker to try to solidify in a time where we looked very vulnerable. This is pretty textbook stuff. Only real issue is that he doesn't have someone better for the role than Garcia, who didn't really have much of an affect on the match. I have no idea how Rodwell hasn't been able to claim that position, but maybe he just needs more time. Once we had settled a bit the manager quite sensibly brought on another attacker to try to steal the points late on, but we were completely unable to cope with the pressing, which has been a serious problem for the team for how many seasons now?

I've said it before, but in spite of all the money we've spent on players, the mix probably needs more tweaking. These pressing teams aren't going to be defeated by changing formation, imo. The players just have to be able to pass and move with enough pace to make them pay for all the forward commitment. We were completely unable to find the pass today, and I feel like Soton knew who to press and who to leave time on the ball because they were unlikely to do much with it.

to be clear, I think some of these players are useful parts, but we've got a few too many players who aren't complete footballers for my liking. Maybe I'm just being driven mad by watching Kolarov doing the only thing he can do (pacy balls into the box) while being a complete liability everywhere else, especially in the build up.

 

[Ray78]

I'm not sure it's a system problem. It's easy to say we are being outnumbered in midfield, but even when we brought Garcia on very little changed. My personal opinion is that we had a few too many one dimensional players in the side at once today. A team with Garcia and Kolarov in it is simply begging to be pressed. Zaba, as much as I love him, is also a bit one footed. DeMichelis, when played on his weaker side, was also very one footed (Lescott would have been similarly one footed but on the other foot). We really struggled to ping the ball about and relieve pressure, which was not aided by Nasri having a slightly rough match. Yaya and Fernandinho were pressed to spread the ball to players who just couldn't do much to take advantage of the increased aggression. I think fatigue played a factor, and probably Navas was needed much earlier to try to provide a speedy outlet for the CMs.

From the manager's perspective, I think he mostly pulled the right strings, I've been (half) surprised at the negativity directed towards him. He sat Negredo mid week to keep him rested for this match, and got Milner in which made sense at the time. We dominated again early, but things fell apart late in the 2nd half. Like most managers, he tried to get a feel for it in the early 2nd half, and changed it as Soton had been dominating play, bringing on Garcia for a striker to try to solidify in a time where we looked very vulnerable. This is pretty textbook stuff. Only real issue is that he doesn't have someone better for the role than Garcia, who didn't really have much of an affect on the match. I have no idea how Rodwell hasn't been able to claim that position, but maybe he just needs more time. Once we had settled a bit the manager quite sensibly brought on another attacker to try to steal the points late on, but we were completely unable to cope with the pressing, which has been a serious problem for the team for how many seasons now?

I've said it before, but in spite of all the money we've spent on players, the mix probably needs more tweaking. These pressing teams aren't going to be defeated by changing formation, imo. The players just have to be able to pass and move with enough pace to make them pay for all the forward commitment. We were completely unable to find the pass today, and I feel like Soton knew who to press and who to leave time on the ball because they were unlikely to do much with it.

to be clear, I think some of these players are useful parts, but we've got a few too many players who aren't complete footballers for my liking. Maybe I'm just being driven mad by watching Kolarov doing the only thing he can do (pacy balls into the box) while being a complete liability everywhere else, especially in the build up.

Excellent well balanced post.

 

[argyle]

I've been saying all along, top by New Year's Day.

But I am happy to revise this should we take all three points tomorrow.

We will be top come the final whistle of the Crystal Palace game on the 28th.

We will have beaten Arsenal, Fulham, Liverpool and Palace in that period.

Supremely confident we will win this title and can still afford at maximum, another three/four defeats and a couple draws, as long as they are not to direct competitors.

A bit too bullish is this.

 

[BobKowalski]

We dominated again early, but things fell apart late in the 2nd half. Like most managers, he tried to get a feel for it in the early 2nd half, and changed it as Soton had been dominating play, bringing on Garcia for a striker to try to solidify in a time where we looked very vulnerable. This is pretty textbook stuff. Only real issue is that he doesn't have someone better for the role than Garcia, who didn't really have much of an affect on the match.

Well we do. Gareth Barry. And yes I am aware that Gaz had his own nightmare last season at Southampton but he is still a better option than Garcia. That Pellers doesn't have the Barry option is down to Txiki but irrespective of who moved Barry on and why I do think Barry on the bench to steady the ship when needed would have been advantageous this season.

 

[teddykgb]

We dominated again early, but things fell apart late in the 2nd half. Like most managers, he tried to get a feel for it in the early 2nd half, and changed it as Soton had been dominating play, bringing on Garcia for a striker to try to solidify in a time where we looked very vulnerable. This is pretty textbook stuff. Only real issue is that he doesn't have someone better for the role than Garcia, who didn't really have much of an affect on the match.

Well we do. Gareth Barry. And yes I am aware that Gaz had his own nightmare last season at Southampton but he is still a better option than Garcia. That Pellers doesn't have the Barry option is down to Txiki but irrespective of who moved Barry on and why I do think Barry on the bench to steady the ship when needed would have been advantageous this season.

I agree, but I can't help but suspect that Barry is at Everton because he wanted to play regular first team football in a World Cup year, not be a specialist on our bench who is deployed when we have a need. Fernandinho was brought in to take the vast majority of Barry's minutes, so I think we did the player a favor and loaned him to Everton. I see no reason to think we shipped him out because we didn't rate him, I just think he would have been unhappy in the role we had left for him.

 

[BobKowalski]

Because Pellegrini is a 4-4-2 manager and set in his ways I'm just coming to terms with this Keegan type football and realising teams will be scoring against us in most games and clean sheets are a thing of the past...

Bullshit!

He played 4-2-3-1 at Malaga and i'm convinced it'll be more beneficial for us to play this system?

Ok clam down ;) why isn't he playing it then?

The makeup of squad coming into the season included 3 frontline strikers with Jovetic as the 4th. If the intention was to play with a lone striker then we would not have made provision for 4 strikers. Logically the only answer is that we intended to play this season with 2 strikers in a 442 system. The fact that bar 1 game we have played with 2 strikers in a 442 system (or 4222 or whatever) does rather bear this out.

I do recall that prior to the season started those that knew everything there was to know about Pellers were confident that it would be a lone striker job and possibly in a 433 formation which only goes to show there is nothing certain in life except death, taxes and at some point looking like a total tit on Bluemoon.

 

[Shirley]

We dominated again early, but things fell apart late in the 2nd half. Like most managers, he tried to get a feel for it in the early 2nd half, and changed it as Soton had been dominating play, bringing on Garcia for a striker to try to solidify in a time where we looked very vulnerable. This is pretty textbook stuff. Only real issue is that he doesn't have someone better for the role than Garcia, who didn't really have much of an affect on the match.

Well we do. Gareth Barry. And yes I am aware that Gaz had his own nightmare last season at Southampton but he is still a better option than Garcia. That Pellers doesn't have the Barry option is down to Txiki but irrespective of who moved Barry on and why I do think Barry on the bench to steady the ship when needed would have been advantageous this season.

I agree, but I can't help but suspect that Barry is at Everton because he wanted to play regular first team football in a World Cup year, not be a specialist on our bench who is deployed when we have a need. Fernandinho was brought in to take the vast majority of Barry's minutes, so I think we did the player a favor and loaned him to Everton. I see no reason to think we shipped him out because we didn't rate him, I just think he would have been unhappy in the role we had left for him.

Yes without doubt but I also reckon it was more finance driven, we are trying to reduce the losses to meet this FFP crap.

 

[BobKowalski]

We dominated again early, but things fell apart late in the 2nd half. Like most managers, he tried to get a feel for it in the early 2nd half, and changed it as Soton had been dominating play, bringing on Garcia for a striker to try to solidify in a time where we looked very vulnerable. This is pretty textbook stuff. Only real issue is that he doesn't have someone better for the role than Garcia, who didn't really have much of an affect on the match.

Well we do. Gareth Barry. And yes I am aware that Gaz had his own nightmare last season at Southampton but he is still a better option than Garcia. That Pellers doesn't have the Barry option is down to Txiki but irrespective of who moved Barry on and why I do think Barry on the bench to steady the ship when needed would have been advantageous this season.

I agree, but I can't help but suspect that Barry is at Everton because he wanted to play regular first team football in a World Cup year, not be a specialist on our bench who is deployed when we have a need. Fernandinho was brought in to take the vast majority of Barry's minutes, so I think we did the player a favor and loaned him to Everton. I see no reason to think we shipped him out because we didn't rate him, I just think he would have been unhappy in the role we had left for him.

Barry himself stated he would have preferred to stay at City and fight for his place even if it meant time on the bench. So no we didn't rate him. Or to be accurate we wanted his wages off the books. I know some people claim we are still paying his wages but I have also read that we are not paying most or any of his wages. To be honest I don't know which is correct but I do believe that the reason for moving him on was primarily a financial one. Just my view.

 

[mancity1]

A lot of hard work ahead if we are serious about a title challenge this year.

MP will need to change things up a bit rather than be too predictable if that is to be achieved.

 

[Blue life]

Just got home from St Mary's. Desperately disappointing stuff. Not as bad as last year, but not far off, as we again failed to cope with quick tenacious opponents pressing us high up the pitch. Sadly Pellegrini was every bit as culpable as Mancini with his formation. You cannot set up against half decent, mobile, opponents like Southampton with a 4 man midfield and especially not when one of them is a stroller like Toure. Bar an excellent opening 15 - 20 minute period, we were completely overrun in midfield, and worsted in every 50:50 tackle by a team who engineered space by the expedient means of sprinting at our unprotected back 4 again and again and again. I'm a Pellegrini fan, but he made the same mistake against Munich and took 45 minutes to rectify the same error against Swansea recently. When we play teams who favour a good passing game and opt for a 5 man midfield (or 4 plus a deep lying forward), we have to match them numerically, and especially on our travels. The only time we have done so however is away at Chelsea, which barring Hart's aberration, worked very effectively.
The hope that the Beast would give us an outlet sadly lacking last season when Dzeko repeatedly miscontrolled the ball straight back into Southampton hands, proved a vain one. He was barely in the game, lacked midfield support and it was no surprise when he was eventually hoicked.
Nasri and Aguero earned their corn, but Negredo, Ya Ya and Milner were all ineffective, when what we needed was big performances. All got deservedly taken off.
Very lucky to get a point

Well here we go!
Lets get rid off MP ams put you in charge ! Wow another fifa14 and computer manager! Jesus you need to come back to the real earth soon

If you'd spent more than 5 minutes on this site you'd know that I'm a fairly staunch supporter of Pellegrini. Clearly then you haven't and you don't. Next clever dick please!

Opinions are like arseeholes, we all have one

In my opinion then if you are behind MP your seeking attention. you are quite clearly a nervous wreck

 

[mike channon´s windmill]

Didn´t realise Norwich won at WBA - does that put our win in perspective? Just a question

 

[TGR]

Well here we go!
Lets get rid off MP ams put you in charge ! Wow another fifa14 and computer manager! Jesus you need to come back to the real earth soon

If you'd spent more than 5 minutes on this site you'd know that I'm a fairly staunch supporter of Pellegrini. Clearly then you haven't and you don't. Next clever dick please!

Opinions are like arseeholes, we all have one

In my opinion then if you are behind MP your seeking attention. you are quite clearly a nervous wreck

I can vouch for the credentials of Exeter Blue being behind Pellegrini without any hesitation. And he most certainly is not seeking attention.
For him to write what he has speaks volumes to be fair.

 

[Exeter Blue I am here]

If you'd spent more than 5 minutes on this site you'd know that I'm a fairly staunch supporter of Pellegrini. Clearly then you haven't and you don't. Next clever dick please!

Opinions are like arseeholes, we all have one

In my opinion then if you are behind MP your seeking attention. you are quite clearly a nervous wreck

I can vouch for the credentials of Exeter Blue being behind Pellegrini without any hesitation. And he most certainly is not seeking attention.
For him to write what he has speaks volumes to be fair.

Thank you.

I think our problem away from home stems from trying to impose a game plan that we don't have the personnel for against certain teams (Southampton, Liverpool, Everton, Swansea etc). If you're gonna set yourselves up to press you need players who are mobile, quick and technically adroit enough to make it work, and ditto when the opposition tries it on you. Ya Ya, magnificent player though he is, just isn't built for shuttle running, and Milner, though fit as a butcher's dog, is very one paced. Chuck Kolarov and Di Michelis into the mix, and we were little better off yesterday than we were last season when Barry, Garcia, Lescott and Dzeko wilted in the face of the same onslaught. The player I felt sorry for yesterday was Fernandinho, who resembled the boy with his fingers in the dike.

Contrast with Lallana and Shaw, both of whom I'd happily buy like a shot, who had the pace, skill and athleticism to go past our players like they weren't there.

I suspect Pellegrini will want to make changes next summer. My hope, with away trips to Goodison, Klanfield, WHL, Swansea and the Emirates still to come, is that we will gather enough points at home to ensure CL qualification in the meantime

 

[Marvin]

City have not been dominating the midfield in many games this season eg Swansea and Spurs at home so why should we at Southampton?

The objective is to do something with that possession rather than make it the objective in of itself. Last season we dominated every game possession wise but it became an end in itself, and we rarely threatened teams. This season.....look at the goals scored.

It was significant for me that we defended very well at Southampton. That was an improvement. It took a special goal to beat us.

We should be growing in confidence because we looked very solid at the back, and it wont be very often that we fail to click going forward.

 

[waspish]

City have not been dominating the midfield in many games this season eg Swansea and Spurs at home so why should we at Southampton?

The objective is to do something with that possession rather than make it the objective in of itself. Last season we dominated every game possession wise but it became an end in itself, and we rarely threatened teams. This season.....look at the goals scored.

It was significant for me that we defended very well at Southampton. That was an improvement. It took a special goal to beat us.

We should be growing in confidence because we looked very solid at the back, and it wont be very often that we fail to click going forward.

I tend to agree its what you do with possession we had enough chances to win that game and yet again we messed up

 

[Marvin]

Opinions are like arseeholes, we all have one

In my opinion then if you are behind MP your seeking attention. you are quite clearly a nervous wreck

I can vouch for the credentials of Exeter Blue being behind Pellegrini without any hesitation. And he most certainly is not seeking attention.
For him to write what he has speaks volumes to be fair.

Thank you.

I think our problem away from home stems from trying to impose a game plan that we don't have the personnel for against certain teams (Southampton, Liverpool, Everton, Swansea etc). If you're gonna set yourselves up to press you need players who are mobile, quick and technically adroit enough to make it work, and ditto when the opposition tries it on you. Ya Ya, magnificent player though he is, just isn't built for shuttle running, and Milner, though fit as a butcher's dog, is very one paced. Chuck Kolarov and Di Michelis into the mix, and we were little better off yesterday than we were last season when Barry, Garcia, Lescott and Dzeko wilted in the face of the same onslaught. The player I felt sorry for yesterday was Fernandinho, who resembled the boy with his fingers in the dike.

Contrast with Lallana and Shaw, both of whom I'd happily buy like a shot, who had the pace, skill and athleticism to go past our players like they weren't there.

I suspect Pellegrini will want to make changes next summer. My hope, with away trips to Goodison, Klanfield, WHL, Swansea and the Emirates still to come, is that we will gather enough points at home to ensure CL qualification in the meantime

Strange conclusions. We beat Swansea, and Everton and were comfortable at Southampton (maybe we struggled after a good opening to create but so did they, and that's a tough a place to go). We will be challenging Arsenal, and are improving

 

[Marvin]

City have not been dominating the midfield in many games this season eg Swansea and Spurs at home so why should we at Southampton?

The objective is to do something with that possession rather than make it the objective in of itself. Last season we dominated every game possession wise but it became an end in itself, and we rarely threatened teams. This season.....look at the goals scored.

It was significant for me that we defended very well at Southampton. That was an improvement. It took a special goal to beat us.

We should be growing in confidence because we looked very solid at the back, and it wont be very often that we fail to click going forward.

I tend to agree its what you do with possession we had enough chances to win that game and yet again we messed up

We created the best chances in the first 20 mins but missed them, and after that we were unable to impose ourselves in the game, but unlike games at Villa, Cardiff etc we were very solid defensively. If we defend like that away from home we will be very difficult to beat, and that is a big step forward.

It wasn't a great game from a creative point of view (for both teams), but the frailties, that some thought would be impossible to eliminate away from home with our open game, were gone. And as I say, I don't think City will have many issues this season with the creative side of our game

 

[Marvin]

Didn´t realise Norwich won at WBA - does that put our win in perspective? Just a question

Norwich did a smash and grab job on them. Sessegnon missed some sitters

WBA also went to Utd earlier this season and beat Utd when they were OK, and Arsenal drew at WBA I think? They also took Arsenal to pens in the League Cup.<br /><br />-- Sun Dec 08, 2013 10:55 am --<br /><br />

City have not been dominating the midfield in many games this season eg Swansea and Spurs at home so why should we at Southampton?

The objective is to do something with that possession rather than make it the objective in of itself. Last season we dominated every game possession wise but it became an end in itself, and we rarely threatened teams. This season.....look at the goals scored.

It was significant for me that we defended very well at Southampton. That was an improvement. It took a special goal to beat us.

We should be growing in confidence because we looked very solid at the back, and it wont be very often that we fail to click going forward.

I tend to agree its what you do with possession we had enough chances to win that game and yet again we messed up

Well if Arsenal carry on winning every game, then this form will not be good enough however

a) I don't think they can. When we won the title we were brilliant from Aug to Nov, then very average until March.

b) Our game is improving. Even in a disappointing game at Southampton we at least looked defensively solid, when that has been our Achilles heel all season.

 

[hgblue]

City have not been dominating the midfield in many games this season eg Swansea and Spurs at home so why should we at Southampton?

The objective is to do something with that possession rather than make it the objective in of itself. Last season we dominated every game possession wise but it became an end in itself, and we rarely threatened teams. This season.....look at the goals scored.

It was significant for me that we defended very well at Southampton. That was an improvement. It took a special goal to beat us.

We should be growing in confidence because we looked very solid at the back, and it wont be very often that we fail to click going forward.

I tend to agree its what you do with possession we had enough chances to win that game and yet again we messed up

We created the best chances in the first 20 mins but missed them, and after that we were unable to impose ourselves in the game, but unlike games at Villa, Cardiff etc we were very solid defensively. If we defend like that away from home we will be very difficult to beat, and that is a big step forward.

It wasn't a great game from a creative point of view (for both teams), but the frailties, that some thought would be impossible to eliminate away from home with our open game, were gone. And as I say, I don't think City will have many issues this season with the creative side of our game

It's funny how two people can watch the same game and come to completely different conclusions about it. I thought we were piss poor. That's the beauty of football I suppose.