Discuss Pellegrini (Pt 4)

[Didsbury Dave]

Thank god, someone with a bit of football knowledge and common sense.

Yeah. Real common sense.

I'll tell you what, if Pellegrini is sacked by Christmas I'll write "I am Didsbury Dave" on my back in big blue letters and run a full bollock naked streak onto the pitch in the ninth minute of the Liverpool match. I'll even throw in a "I was wrong" banner which I will plant in the centre circle.

Once again,
[1] I am enjoying the football at home.
[2] I am not enjoying the football away from home. Losing the way we have done are not pleasant experiences.
[3] A good defence wins trophies in all team ball sports - NOT cavalier attacking.
[4] Pellegrini keeps making the same mistakes away from home. It is not bad luck it is bad defending due to bad team set up and deployed tactics.
[5] if Pellers continues to NOT learn from his mistakes away from home then he will have to go - Indeed, the sooner the better if that is the case.
[6] If Pellers sorts out our defending away from home and at home against the best teams (and its not the players because previously WITHOUT Kompany we were still one of the best defences in the league) he can stay.

This is my mantra. Not what you continue to imply.

Mate, there's not a single City supporter in the world who doesn't know our away results have to improve. But the reason why there's a lot of excitement building is that most people are utterly convinced that they will because of all the factors which have been discussed to death: injuries, luck, errors and the bedding in of a whole new system, management and players. These things cannot and will not last forever. It's obvious to anyone with half a brain how good a team we are.

Don't worry. About a thing. Coz every little thing. Is going to be alright...;-)

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Didn't someone post some stats the other day that showed we're doing most things pretty well right away from home apart from putting the ball in the net.

What's cost us is not the overall approach to games but Zab's poor marking at Cardiff, failure to stop Villa scoring late on and Hart's brain-fart at Stamford Bridge.

We couldn't put the ball in the net at Sunderland and were probably a bit shit at Stoke overall, which is the only game we have been somewhat clueless.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

Didn't someone post some stats the other day that showed we're doing most things pretty well right away from home apart from putting the ball in the net.

What's cost us is not the overall approach to games but Zab's poor marking at Cardiff, failure to stop Villa scoring late on and Hart's brain-fart at Stamford Bridge.

We couldn't put the ball in the net at Sunderland and were probably a bit shit at Stoke overall, which is the only game we have been somewhat clueless.

Yes. They were incredible stats. I'll find them.<br /><br />-- Tue Nov 26, 2013 11:40 am --<br /><br />Here you are PB, courtesy of Chippy Boy:

(rank in brackets)
Total passes
3,419 (1st)

Passing accuracy
87.42% (1st)

Average possession
62.39% (1st)

Shots for
77 (2nd)

Shots on target
34 (2nd)

Shots to goals
10.39% (10th)

Goals scored
8 (=4th)

Shots against
56 (1st lowest, i.e. best)

Shots on target against
21 (4th lowest, i.e. 4th best)

Goals conceded
10 (=10th lowest)

Points dropped from winning positions
6 (20th, i.e. bottom)

 

[Ray78]

After yesterday's civil and rational discussion I see this thread has turned full circle again! I could understand if Manuel Pellegrini had the same amount of time at the club as Roberto Mancini and the away results did not improve, then you cannot argue that the current boss's job security would be severely under threat or would have gone after the second season. However he has a couple of months to concentrate solely on improving that.

 

[Anonymous]

Apropos nothing in particular ... there was a Malaga supporter who posted after Pellegrini's appointment something along the lines of "you won't see the best of his team until after Christmas because it will take the players time to get used to what he wants from them, but it will be worth the wait".

Personally I can see what he was talking about as I can see the progress we're making in our play.

 

[BlueAnorak]

[3] A good defence wins trophies in all team ball sports - NOT cavalier attacking.

Nonsense. Barcelona and the rags are arguably two of the most successful teams of the last decade. To suggest they are anything but cavalier attacking teams is plain wrong.

[4] Pellegrini keeps making the same mistakes away from home. It is not bad luck it is bad defending due to bad team set up and deployed tactics.

It's arguable both ways. I think it's been about bad luck and bad defending by individuals rather than a tactical problem. You think the opposite. The manager seems to agree with what I'm saying.

[5] if Pellers continues to NOT learn from his mistakes away from home then he will have to go - Indeed, the sooner the better if that is the case.

Personally I find this comment to be one which in Bluemoon terms would be "deliberately provocative". It's absolute farce for anyone to think Pellegrini is going anywhere anytime soon. The team are clearly heading in the right direction and since the manager is constantly reiterating that he has no problems with the overall performances away from home, then I'd suggest that he doesn't think he's making mistakes.

[6] If Pellers sorts out our defending away from home and at home against the best teams (and its not the players because previously WITHOUT Kompany we were still one of the best defences in the league) he can stay.

It's not your decision whether he stays or goes, and more importantly, we are not a club who sack managers for fun. Your entire argument is based on the premise that the manager is somehow tactically deficient and that the players' mistakes are irrelevant. As I said above, the manager things otherwise which suggests he doesn't think he's doing much wrong. That doesn't strike me as someone who's even remotely concerned about either a) the performances or b) his own position.

Those represent my opinions not yours and not the clubs so most of your comments above come under the heading of "needlessly having a go" which you seem so keen to want to put a stop too.

As to point [3] Yes Barcelona and Utd are/were Cavalier when attacking - they could also defend. Are you saying these teams couldn't defend? I doubt it. You are doing exactly what you accuse me of. But for the sake of correctness lets change the comment as follows:
[3] A good defence wins trophies in all team ball sports - NOT just cavalier attacking. Indeed a good defence is more likely to win a team trophies than cavalier attacking. Happier?

As to point [4] being arguable in both ways yes it is - but the fact that we keep losing in similar circumstances away from home since the start of the season shifts the balance of probability well towards my argument and away from yours. As I have said bad luck doesn't strike as regularly as it is is doing. There is a reason - it is not just bad luck. I happen to think it is Pellegrini's team set-up and tactics.

As to point [5] my opinion is that if the same mistakes keep being made with a defence that has been statistically the best in the Prem for the last 3 seasons AND even (again statistically) one of the best without Kompany then there is something wrong. I don't believe in bad luck so In my mind the players are either unsuited to the tactics, or the manager thinks the player he has can turn it round. What's you opinion? I'd really like to know. As to it being deliberately provocative well I want the best for my team. You continually had a go against Mancini because he wasn't doing the best he could in your eyes - was that being deliberately provocative as well?<br /><br />-- Tue Nov 26, 2013 1:18 pm --<br /><br />

Yeah. Real common sense.

I'll tell you what, if Pellegrini is sacked by Christmas I'll write "I am Didsbury Dave" on my back in big blue letters and run a full bollock naked streak onto the pitch in the ninth minute of the Liverpool match. I'll even throw in a "I was wrong" banner which I will plant in the centre circle.

Once again,
[1] I am enjoying the football at home.
[2] I am not enjoying the football away from home. Losing the way we have done are not pleasant experiences.
[3] A good defence wins trophies in all team ball sports - NOT cavalier attacking.
[4] Pellegrini keeps making the same mistakes away from home. It is not bad luck it is bad defending due to bad team set up and deployed tactics.
[5] if Pellers continues to NOT learn from his mistakes away from home then he will have to go - Indeed, the sooner the better if that is the case.
[6] If Pellers sorts out our defending away from home and at home against the best teams (and its not the players because previously WITHOUT Kompany we were still one of the best defences in the league) he can stay.

This is my mantra. Not what you continue to imply.

Mate, there's not a single City supporter in the world who doesn't know our away results have to improve. But the reason why there's a lot of excitement building is that most people are utterly convinced that they will because of all the factors which have been discussed to death: injuries, luck, errors and the bedding in of a whole new system, management and players. These things cannot and will not last forever. It's obvious to anyone with half a brain how good a team we are.

Don't worry. About a thing. Coz every little thing. Is going to be alright...;-)

I really hope you're right. :-)

 

[GaudinoMotors]

Apropos nothing in particular ... there was a Malaga supporter who posted after Pellegrini's appointment something along the lines of "you won't see the best of his team until after Christmas because it will take the players time to get used to what he wants from them, but it will be worth the wait".

Personally I can see what he was talking about as I can see the progress we're making in our play.

Which Christmas? -

Only joking - you are right Billy and Dave - even his biggest detractors must be able to see improvement. I personally think it will be too late to win the title but I'm more confident of a top 3 finish.

 

[BlueAnorak]

Apropos nothing in particular ... there was a Malaga supporter who posted after Pellegrini's appointment something along the lines of "you won't see the best of his team until after Christmas because it will take the players time to get used to what he wants from them, but it will be worth the wait".

Personally I can see what he was talking about as I can see the progress we're making in our play.

Which Christmas? -

Only joking - you are right Billy and Dave - even his biggest detractors must be able to see improvement. I personally think it will be too late to win the title but I'm more confident of a top 3 finish.

Yep - I've seen improvement at home.
None away. In fact we regressed at Sunderland.

 

[blueinsa]

On the point of our supposed shambolic defending and the apparent blame for that landing at Pellgrini's door, we have conceded just 2 goals more than the league leaders and we have conceded just 2 goals more than last season after 12 league games and we had an apparent defensive guru in charge of us then.

Factor in missing personnel and some ridiculous individual errors it puts our current situation into perspective I think and makes the continued claims ridiculous.

I will wager now that we will finish the season off with the best record once more and comfortably so.

 

[Anonymous]

Those represent my opinions not yours and not the clubs so most of your comments above come under the heading of "needlessly having a go" which you seem so keen to want to put a stop too.

I disagree. I've disagreed with your opinions as politely as I possibly could. I haven't said you need glasses, haven't accused you have hypocrisy, am not using a past argument to try and score points. So no, I'm not needlessly having a go. Just replying to your 7 points.

As to point [3] Yes Barcelona and Utd are/were Cavalier when attacking - they could also defend. Are you saying these teams couldn't defend? I doubt it. You are doing exactly what you accuse me of.

Again I'm not doing anything of the sort. We didn't win the league last season, United did, with an inferior defensive record to ours. Barcelona are so open they constantly give the opposition opportunities ts core on the break.

But for the sake of correctness lets change the comment as follows:
[3] A good defence wins trophies in all team ball sports - NOT just cavalier attacking. Indeed a good defence is more likely to win a team trophies than cavalier attacking. Happier?

I still disagree. Ultimately football's about scoring more goals than the opposition - which is why successful teams generally score a lot of goals. The point you seem to be reaching to make is that the way we play under Pellegrini is too cavalier and that it won't win trophies. Well I don't think he's going to change his approach so we'll know by the end of the season whether it can be successful or not.

As to point [4] being arguable in both ways yes it is - but the fact that we keep losing in similar circumstances away from home since the start of the season shifts the balance of probability well towards my argument and away from yours. As I have said bad luck doesn't strike as regularly as it is is doing. There is a reason - it is not just bad luck. I happen to think it is Pellegrini's team set-up and tactics.

I don't see how any definitive judgment can be made after such a small pool of examples. We're literally talking about Cardiff, Villa, and Chelsea. At Stoke we were poor, I totally agree. At Sunderland Pellegrini got his team wrong and it had a serious negative effect. The other three games I mention we dropped points because of poor individual errors by players.

What's you opinion? I'd really like to know. As to it being deliberately provocative well I want the best for my team. You continually had a go against Mancini because he wasn't doing the best he could in your eyes - was that being deliberately provocative as well?

I've stated my opinion on our defensive record/away form. I won't address the Mancini comment. If you want to have a discussion rooted in last season then I'm just not interested.