Discuss Pellegrini (Pt 4)

[dave_blue12]

I assume because in previous away games we scored goals and took the lead on two occasions whereas at Sunderland we barely created a worthwhile chance let alone score. Hence regression.

By that logic we regress if we only win 5-0 in our next game?

With the greatest respect, ridiculous.

Sunderland was one of those days when fuck all goes your way. I will agree it was his poorest day as manager and i didn't agree with his selection policy but shit ref and bad luck aside, we didn't deserve to lose and 99 times out of 100 we piss the game.

My you guys are sensitive today...something happen that I miss?

We played poorly at Sunderland, created little in the way of worthwhile chances and lost. At least that was the game I watched. We can pretend it was a 90 minute siege thwarted by bad refs and bad luck if it makes you feel better. Knock yourself out - I'm in a playful mood.

The Sunderland goal clearly should not have stood and that was a game changer. They then packed their defense and held on to what they had. I agree we didn't have the wit to unlock their defense but to suggest that the refereeing decision had no impact is frankly ludicrous.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

I'd disagree with that. They should have been down to 10 men and their goal was as the result of a foul. But even leaving that aside, we absolutely dominated that game after the goal. The BBC report talks about us being thwarted by a well-organised defence and exerting incessant pressure. The number of times bodies blocked goal-bound shots was into double figures.

Of course we did. It was like the bloody Alamo. We were far from our best because the creative players didn't take responsibility in the absence of Silva and Fernadino , but we still completely dominated that game. It was a freak result.

I thought Cardiff was the freak result? Or was it Villa? Now it's Sunderland. Stop changing the freak result, it's very confusing ;).

You'll see by the end of the season that all three were.

 

[BobKowalski]

Yep - I've seen improvement at home.
None away. In fact we regressed at Sunderland.

I'd disagree with that. They should have been down to 10 men and their goal was as the result of a foul. But even leaving that aside, we absolutely dominated that game after the goal. The BBC report talks about us being thwarted by a well-organised defence and exerting incessant pressure. The number of times bodies blocked goal-bound shots was into double figures.

Colin, your improvement was my confirmation of no improvement. As the Duke of Wellington once said: "They came on in the same old way and we defeated them in the same old way."

We really need to mix things up more. This was my problem with Mancini and it has not been addressed by Pellegrini away from home either.
- Better corners and set piece delivery from the flanks is required. Clearing the first man would be a start.
- More shots required from the edge of the box and further out.
- Run at the opposition more. Drive into the penalty area.
Continual play across the front of the opposition does not a parked bas move.

I saw against Spurs the way forward away from home: The brutal quick counter attack. we did it for half a season (2011-12 till Christmas) under Mancini then withdrew into our shells till the last 7 games. Against Spurs it was back with a vengence. We need to do this away from home. as the primary mode of attack. It they attack us we need to be absolutely brutal on the counter attack. It is the way Utd have won away from home in the Prem for the last 4 or 5 seasons - often when under the cosh. We need to learn the lesson.

The quick counter attack worked a treat on Sunday and I can see the argument for playing it away from home. But our MO is to control possession and initiate rather than react. If the home team does not wish to engage but defend deep and also play on the counter we will by default take the initiative so back to square one as it where.

Irrespective of manager we are a possession based team and look to control games via possession. That is our DNA which is why Sunday was interesting as we conceded that possession very quickly but how applicable Sunday's strategy can be going forward I'm not sure.

 

[blueinsa]

A quick google search ascertains that the best defence generally does not win the PL

http://talksport.com/magazine/featu...y-attack-more-likely-win-title-defence-186879

Couldn't be arsed to find anything more up to date but the point stands

But, but, but.......

If goals win games they also win trophies and titles.

 

[Cobwebcat]

Pelle would help himself and the team by not playing Garcia so much away from home.

Whilst i do not rate Garcia, particularly at centre half (where we will certainly never see him again), I understand why Pellegrini picks him as cover. He clearly wants "total football" from the team. He wants us to keep possession and get the ball forward quickly, so our matchwinners can open defences. One of the ways he has us doing this is quick, close, tight passing to players, even if they are under pressure.

He clearly picks players who can recieve the ball in these tight spaces and who can release accurately into these tight spaces. It's the reason why players like Milner, Lescott and Dzeko have gone down the pecking order. They can't do it, even though they have other strengths.

I'm not blindly defending this decision, because I think it's bitten him in the arse more often than not where Garcia is concerned. But I believe that is why he does it and I understand it.

I think that's the theory too but his weaknesses far outweigh his strengths. He needs replacing and in the meantime Pelle should accept we can't play like that away if we don't have the players good enough. Once we have a good defensive midfielder who doesn't grab at players walking past him we can go back to it. Trying to run before we can walk away from home. It's no coincidence that Garcia has featured in most of our defeats and I get the impression the rest of the team don't trust him defensively.

 

[OB1]

I'd disagree with that. They should have been down to 10 men and their goal was as the result of a foul. But even leaving that aside, we absolutely dominated that game after the goal. The BBC report talks about us being thwarted by a well-organised defence and exerting incessant pressure. The number of times bodies blocked goal-bound shots was into double figures.

Of course we did. It was like the bloody Alamo. We were far from our best because the creative players didn't take responsibility in the absence of Silva and Fernadino , but we still completely dominated that game. It was a freak result.

I thought Cardiff was the freak result? Or was it Villa? Now it's Sunderland. Stop changing the freak result, it's very confusing ;).

Hopefully time will show that we have had an abnormal set of results (reasoning for which has been done to death) but until we get much further down the line, we really won't know for certain one way or another. One quarter of the goals conceded in the league so far should have been ruled out, I'd be calling for a public inquiry into corruption if we finished the season with 25% of our goals against being attributable to officiating issues.

 

[berniethebusman]

I'd disagree with that. They should have been down to 10 men and their goal was as the result of a foul. But even leaving that aside, we absolutely dominated that game after the goal. The BBC report talks about us being thwarted by a well-organised defence and exerting incessant pressure. The number of times bodies blocked goal-bound shots was into double figures.

Colin, your improvement was my confirmation of no improvement. As the Duke of Wellington once said: "They came on in the same old way and we defeated them in the same old way."

We really need to mix things up more. This was my problem with Mancini and it has not been addressed by Pellegrini away from home either.
- Better corners and set piece delivery from the flanks is required. Clearing the first man would be a start.
- More shots required from the edge of the box and further out.
- Run at the opposition more. Drive into the penalty area.
Continual play across the front of the opposition does not a parked bas move.

I saw against Spurs the way forward away from home: The brutal quick counter attack. we did it for half a season (2011-12 till Christmas) under Mancini then withdrew into our shells till the last 7 games. Against Spurs it was back with a vengence. We need to do this away from home. as the primary mode of attack. It they attack us we need to be absolutely brutal on the counter attack. It is the way Utd have won away from home in the Prem for the last 4 or 5 seasons - often when under the cosh. We need to learn the lesson.

The quick counter attack worked a treat on Sunday and I can see the argument for playing it away from home. But our MO is to control possession and initiate rather than react. If the home team does not wish to engage but defend deep and also play on the counter we will by default take the initiative so back to square one as it where.

Irrespective of manager we are a possession based team and look to control games via possession. That is our DNA which is why Sunday was interesting as we conceded that possession very quickly but how applicable Sunday's strategy can be going forward I'm not sure.

If our game is all about controlling games via possession why do we only play 4 in the mid?

 

[hgblue]

Of course we did. It was like the bloody Alamo. We were far from our best because the creative players didn't take responsibility in the absence of Silva and Fernadino , but we still completely dominated that game. It was a freak result.

I thought Cardiff was the freak result? Or was it Villa? Now it's Sunderland. Stop changing the freak result, it's very confusing ;).

Hopefully time will show that we have had an abnormal set of results (reasoning for which has been done to death) but until we get much further down the line, we really won't know for certain one way or another. One quarter of the goals conceded in the league so far should have been ruled out, I'd be calling for a public inquiry into corruption if we finished the season with 25% of our goals against being attributable to officiating issues.

3 games out of 6 away from home were 'freak' results? Poor refereeing decision at Sundeland occurred early enough in the game for us to have recovered and still won. Villa were absolutely dire and without their best two players, Kompany was playing, yet we still managed to lose the game. Cardiff were there for the taking on the day, but we weren't up to it. Chelsea I'll give you because there's sod all you can do about a last minute brain fart. However, to balance that, we were fortunate to get a point at Stoke where we were truly awful. Must do better.

 

[Exeter Blue I am here]

Yep - I've seen improvement at home.
None away. In fact we regressed at Sunderland.

I'd disagree with that. They should have been down to 10 men and their goal was as the result of a foul. But even leaving that aside, we absolutely dominated that game after the goal. The BBC report talks about us being thwarted by a well-organised defence and exerting incessant pressure. The number of times bodies blocked goal-bound shots was into double figures.

Colin, your improvement was my confirmation of no improvement. As the Duke of Wellington once said: "They came on in the same old way and we defeated them in the same old way."

We really need to mix things up more. This was my problem with Mancini and it has not been addressed by Pellegrini away from home either.
- Better corners and set piece delivery from the flanks is required. Clearing the first man would be a start.
- More shots required from the edge of the box and further out.
- Run at the opposition more. Drive into the penalty area.
Continual play across the front of the opposition does not a parked bas move.

I saw against Spurs the way forward away from home: The brutal quick counter attack. we did it for half a season (2011-12 till Christmas) under Mancini then withdrew into our shells till the last 7 games. Against Spurs it was back with a vengence. We need to do this away from home. as the primary mode of attack. It they attack us we need to be absolutely brutal on the counter attack. It is the way Utd have won away from home in the Prem for the last 4 or 5 seasons - often when under the cosh. We need to learn the lesson.

You don't seem to take much account of the opposition in your simplistic analyses do you?! Revelling in oceans of counterattacking space is a bit difficult when our vastly superior ball retention (courtesy of fabulous players like Silva, Nasri, Ya Ya etc) usually means that we will enjoy 65% plus possession in the opposition half against even mid table teams, whilst teams at the bottom - of which Sunderland were a glorious case in point - will inevitably have neither the ambition nor the talent to venture further out than the edge of their own box. Poignant that you mention our title winning season, cos that's exactly what happened to us then. Before Christmas teams tried to take us on and we were able to cane them on the counter (1-5 at Spurs, 1-6 at the Swamp etc); after it, bus parking became endemic (Everton 1-0, Sunderland 1-0, West Brom 0-0, even the decider against QPR nearly ended in tears etc) and we couldn't. Tottenham on Sunday, whilst monstrously cack in general terms, were still good enough to push forward and play right into our hands.
What would you have us do then when the opposition politely declines to make a game of it?

 

[Deleted member 58678]

I'd disagree with that. They should have been down to 10 men and their goal was as the result of a foul. But even leaving that aside, we absolutely dominated that game after the goal. The BBC report talks about us being thwarted by a well-organised defence and exerting incessant pressure. The number of times bodies blocked goal-bound shots was into double figures.

Colin, your improvement was my confirmation of no improvement. As the Duke of Wellington once said: "They came on in the same old way and we defeated them in the same old way."

We really need to mix things up more. This was my problem with Mancini and it has not been addressed by Pellegrini away from home either.
- Better corners and set piece delivery from the flanks is required. Clearing the first man would be a start.
- More shots required from the edge of the box and further out.
- Run at the opposition more. Drive into the penalty area.
Continual play across the front of the opposition does not a parked bas move.

I saw against Spurs the way forward away from home: The brutal quick counter attack. we did it for half a season (2011-12 till Christmas) under Mancini then withdrew into our shells till the last 7 games. Against Spurs it was back with a vengence. We need to do this away from home. as the primary mode of attack. It they attack us we need to be absolutely brutal on the counter attack. It is the way Utd have won away from home in the Prem for the last 4 or 5 seasons - often when under the cosh. We need to learn the lesson.

You don't seem to take much account of the opposition in your simplistic analyses do you?! Revelling in oceans of counterattacking space is a bit difficult when our vastly superior ball retention (courtesy of fabulous players like Silva, Nasri, Ya Ya etc) usually means that we will enjoy 65% plus possession in the opposition half against even mid table teams, whilst teams at the bottom - of which Sunderland were a glorious case in point - will inevitably have neither the ambition nor the talent to venture further out than the edge of their own box. Poignant that you mention our title winning season, cos that's exactly what happened to us then. Before Christmas teams tried to take us on and we were able to cane them on the counter (1-5 at Spurs, 1-6 at the Swamp etc); after it, bus parking became endemic (Everton 1-0, Sunderland 1-0, West Brom 0-0, even the decider against QPR nearly ended in tears etc) and we couldn't. Tottenham on Sunday, whilst monstrously cack in general terms, were still good enough to push forward and play right into our hands.
What would you have us do then when the opposition politely declines to make a game of it?

But that's just guessing that the opposition won't come out and play if we invite them to. Not trying to do so at all will keep it a guess. We don't have to play 90 minutes of it (we shouldn't be playing 90 minutes of one way anyway) just change things around a bit. How many boxers have been repeated or undisputed champions by jogging around the ring only using their jab?