Discuss Pellegrini (Pt 4)

[Anonymous]

I wouldn't say we played on the break. However, we were making sure we didn't get exposed, especially down the flanks. For me we were prepared to sit a little deeper than we normally do at home.

Whether this was by design or not, I believe it worked to our benefit, as they pushed their full backs forward, we were able to counter with good effect in the first half.

The second half we showed how superior we were, especially when they tried to match us up. Was no coincidence when they went back to a lone striker even though they were 5-0 down.

I think the key was making sure that we didn't get exposed down our left side where generally we've been vulnerable this season. It felt like Clichy had been told to sit because of the Lennon/Walker axis. On the other side Lamela and Vertonghen provided fuck all threat and as such Zaba was attacking from the off.

 

[Gaylord du Bois]

I agree at the same time I think the game panned out exactly like what Pellers would have expected, not including the actual scoreline.

The single most important thing that happened against Spurs was the goal after 15 seconds, it changed what Spurs had to do, they had to score to be level, their game plan was effectively 10 men behind the ball, and it had failed after 15 seconds. This made our game plan much easier, and we weren't at our best for about 25 minutes after that, but we defended well, and once we'd scored the second the game was effectively over, because Spurs rarely score twice, never mind three times.

That fucked them up completely. The very thought of the ninety minute mountain climb ahead nigh on paralysed them.
It was an odd first half for sure in which we huffed and puffed and puffed again before we got another break from their keeper. After that they were mentally spent and we were in a position to pick them off at will.

 

[Exeter Blue I am here]

Colin, your improvement was my confirmation of no improvement. As the Duke of Wellington once said: "They came on in the same old way and we defeated them in the same old way."

We really need to mix things up more. This was my problem with Mancini and it has not been addressed by Pellegrini away from home either.
- Better corners and set piece delivery from the flanks is required. Clearing the first man would be a start.
- More shots required from the edge of the box and further out.
- Run at the opposition more. Drive into the penalty area.
Continual play across the front of the opposition does not a parked bas move.

I saw against Spurs the way forward away from home: The brutal quick counter attack. we did it for half a season (2011-12 till Christmas) under Mancini then withdrew into our shells till the last 7 games. Against Spurs it was back with a vengence. We need to do this away from home. as the primary mode of attack. It they attack us we need to be absolutely brutal on the counter attack. It is the way Utd have won away from home in the Prem for the last 4 or 5 seasons - often when under the cosh. We need to learn the lesson.

You don't seem to take much account of the opposition in your simplistic analyses do you?! Revelling in oceans of counterattacking space is a bit difficult when our vastly superior ball retention (courtesy of fabulous players like Silva, Nasri, Ya Ya etc) usually means that we will enjoy 65% plus possession in the opposition half against even mid table teams, whilst teams at the bottom - of which Sunderland were a glorious case in point - will inevitably have neither the ambition nor the talent to venture further out than the edge of their own box. Poignant that you mention our title winning season, cos that's exactly what happened to us then. Before Christmas teams tried to take us on and we were able to cane them on the counter (1-5 at Spurs, 1-6 at the Swamp etc); after it, bus parking became endemic (Everton 1-0, Sunderland 1-0, West Brom 0-0, even the decider against QPR nearly ended in tears etc) and we couldn't. Tottenham on Sunday, whilst monstrously cack in general terms, were still good enough to push forward and play right into our hands.
What would you have us do then when the opposition politely declines to make a game of it?

But that's just guessing that the opposition won't come out and play if we invite them to. Not trying to do so at all will keep it a guess. We don't have to play 90 minutes of it (we shouldn't be playing 90 minutes of one way anyway) just change things around a bit. How many boxers have been repeated or undisputed champions by jogging around the ring only using their jab?

I take the point, but patting the ball around on the edge of our own box in the hope that Sunderland et al, will come lumbering gormlessly forward like a latter day George Foreman or mice emerging from the skirting board cos they've eyed a strategically placed piece of cheese on the far side of the room, whilst oblivious to the cat lurking behind a curtain, is a tactic that I'm not convinced will work.
Fine of course, if our opponents will buy it, but I suspect most opposition managers won't be quite that gullible. Both Pulis (during the course of several meetings) and Sunderland last year, were well wise to the possibility of this, and when pushing forward still kept their defence obstinately stationed on the edge of their own box, however big the gap between their back fours and midfields.
As Bob K states somewhere above, we are a possession based side, and if counterattacking were as simple a solution as you seem to suggest, do you not think that both Mancini and/or Pellers would have tried it? To a degree we are a victim of our own success, the best and most skilled team in the land at retaining possession, and we face more parked buses and compact deep lying defences than any other side as a consequence

 

[Cobwebcat]

I know what people mean and that if we can get the lead we can play counter attack and get huge score lines but if this were entirely true why have we one of the worst records when it comes to holding onto a lead?

Wouldn't this record be just as anomalous as our away form in general when you take into account the other statistics from those games ?

Yes maybe. Time will tell.

 

[OB1]

What would you have us do then when the opposition politely declines to make a game of it?

It's a proper head scratcher as to why anyone thinks that just because we decline the opportunity to play with a high defensive line and push our full backs forward this will automatically equate to the opposition giving us room and space to exploit in their half of the field.

In fact overall everyone who's advocating a more cautious or defensive approach against any one but the top teams in the world is kidding themselves and not paying attention to what Pellegrini's been saying. We're an attacking side, and as such we will always begin games on the front foot and only attempt to close out games in which there is a genuine risk posed by the quality in the opposition ranks (as in against Chelsea), or when there are injuries to our own key players making us more vulnerable than normal.

Otherwise as much as its a cliche the only tactic which will matter is the attacking one.

I would be rather worried if Pellers had not long been familiar with the concept of sitting back and letting the opposition come on to you; however, I don't think he was brought here to institute that as a tactic for frequent use by City and he makes it plain enough that he does not intend to play that way. Upon occasion, his team may be forced to play that way and, even more rarely, he may send them out to do that but it is not going to be the usual way that he goes about things. It won't have been a revelation to him that it worked for us against Spurs and he won't be beyond parking the bus if we should visit the Nou Camp in the next stage of the UCL; I'd love to draw Barca just to see if he does.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

So you're suggesting that we pat the ball around on the edge of our own box in the hope that Sunderland et al, will come lumbering gormlessly forward like a latter day George Foreman or mice emerging from the skirting board cos they've eyed a strategically placed piece of cheese on the far side of the room, whilst oblivious to the cat lurking behind a curtain?

Bravo !!!! Brilliant!

 

[moomba]

I will wager now that we will finish the season off with the best record once more and comfortably so.

Not having to play ourself at home is proving to be a big advantage in that race.

 

[BluessinceHydeRoad]

Just to inject a note of enjoyment and humour into a thread that seems at the moment to be forgetting what a great win we had on Sunday, I have been chuckling about some of the quotes from the press and Spurs'fans about the "match":-

"Spurs were giving as good as they got until City took the lead."

"They told us going to the Etihad was going to a fortress. Nobody said it was more like a torture chamber."

"Soldado never got into City's box. He did his best work in the centre circle - where he completed all 7 passes."

Any more?

 

[OB1]

You don't seem to take much account of the opposition in your simplistic analyses do you?! Revelling in oceans of counterattacking space is a bit difficult when our vastly superior ball retention (courtesy of fabulous players like Silva, Nasri, Ya Ya etc) usually means that we will enjoy 65% plus possession in the opposition half against even mid table teams, whilst teams at the bottom - of which Sunderland were a glorious case in point - will inevitably have neither the ambition nor the talent to venture further out than the edge of their own box. Poignant that you mention our title winning season, cos that's exactly what happened to us then. Before Christmas teams tried to take us on and we were able to cane them on the counter (1-5 at Spurs, 1-6 at the Swamp etc); after it, bus parking became endemic (Everton 1-0, Sunderland 1-0, West Brom 0-0, even the decider against QPR nearly ended in tears etc) and we couldn't. Tottenham on Sunday, whilst monstrously cack in general terms, were still good enough to push forward and play right into our hands.
What would you have us do then when the opposition politely declines to make a game of it?

But that's just guessing that the opposition won't come out and play if we invite them to. Not trying to do so at all will keep it a guess. We don't have to play 90 minutes of it (we shouldn't be playing 90 minutes of one way anyway) just change things around a bit. How many boxers have been repeated or undisputed champions by jogging around the ring only using their jab?

I take the point, but patting the ball around on the edge of our own box in the hope that Sunderland et al, will come lumbering gormlessly forward like a latter day George Foreman or mice emerging from the skirting board cos they've eyed a strategically placed piece of cheese on the far side of the room, whilst oblivious to the cat lurking behind a curtain, is a tactic that I'm not convinced will work.
Fine of course, if our opponents will buy it, but I suspect most opposition managers won't be quite that gullible. Both Pulis (during the course of several meetings) and Sunderland last year, were well wise to the possibility of this, and when pushing forward still kept their defence obstinately stationed on the edge of their own box, however big the gap between their back fours and midfields.
As Bob K states somewhere above, we are a possession based side, and if counterattacking were as simple a solution as you seem to suggest, do you not think that both Mancini and/or Pellers would have tried it? To a degree we are a victim of our own success, the best and most skilled team in the land at retaining possession, and we face more parked buses and compact deep lying defences than any other side as a consequence

Dave was right: you do know your football. Must be all those coaching badges ;-)<br /><br />-- Tue Nov 26, 2013 2:22 pm --<br /><br />

So you're suggesting that we pat the ball around on the edge of our own box in the hope that Sunderland et al, will come lumbering gormlessly forward like a latter day George Foreman or mice emerging from the skirting board cos they've eyed a strategically placed piece of cheese on the far side of the room, whilst oblivious to the cat lurking behind a curtain?

Bravo !!!! Brilliant!

Not only does he know his football; he is a master of analogy.

 

[Exeter Blue I am here]

Colin, your improvement was my confirmation of no improvement. As the Duke of Wellington once said: "They came on in the same old way and we defeated them in the same old way."

We really need to mix things up more. This was my problem with Mancini and it has not been addressed by Pellegrini away from home either.
- Better corners and set piece delivery from the flanks is required. Clearing the first man would be a start.
- More shots required from the edge of the box and further out.
- Run at the opposition more. Drive into the penalty area.
Continual play across the front of the opposition does not a parked bas move.

I saw against Spurs the way forward away from home: The brutal quick counter attack. we did it for half a season (2011-12 till Christmas) under Mancini then withdrew into our shells till the last 7 games. Against Spurs it was back with a vengence. We need to do this away from home. as the primary mode of attack. It they attack us we need to be absolutely brutal on the counter attack. It is the way Utd have won away from home in the Prem for the last 4 or 5 seasons - often when under the cosh. We need to learn the lesson.

You don't seem to take much account of the opposition in your simplistic analyses do you?! Revelling in oceans of counterattacking space is a bit difficult when our vastly superior ball retention (courtesy of fabulous players like Silva, Nasri, Ya Ya etc) usually means that we will enjoy 65% plus possession in the opposition half against even mid table teams, whilst teams at the bottom - of which Sunderland were a glorious case in point - will inevitably have neither the ambition nor the talent to venture further out than the edge of their own box. Poignant that you mention our title winning season, cos that's exactly what happened to us then. Before Christmas teams tried to take us on and we were able to cane them on the counter (1-5 at Spurs, 1-6 at the Swamp etc); after it, bus parking became endemic (Everton 1-0, Sunderland 1-0, West Brom 0-0, even the decider against QPR nearly ended in tears etc) and we couldn't. Tottenham on Sunday, whilst monstrously cack in general terms, were still good enough to push forward and play right into our hands.
What would you have us do then when the opposition politely declines to make a game of it?

Away from home he needs to keep playing Dzeko, Garcia, Lescott and Milner then as the opposition will end up with plenty of possession.... :0)

Lol! :)