Discuss Pellegrini

[Anonymous]

1. Get the players on-board.

I think he's done that well. The players seem to like and admire him. I haven't seen Zabaleta's interview yesterday but I've read snippets. May I ask if he sounded measured in his response or if he sounded tuned out. The latter would be a problem. There is one inherent danger in the manner which last season unfolded. It's quite probable that some players now think they can get a manager fired at-will. Hopefully, the board backs the manager to the hilt. We may not find the idea palatable that one or more players would do that, but they did it once. As an addendum to that last point, much of that was Mancini's fault, but athletes can be rather like children. They learn via experience. They've experienced that shutting down on the field over various perceived and real slights gets rid of a manager. It would be negligent not to consider they might do this again if things aren't going well and they feel pressured.

Your starting point seems to be that the players got Mancini sacked. To be honest, without wanting to completely rehash old arguments, ultimately they didn't. It was his relationship with the people he worked for that led to his sacking. The fact the players disliked him just made the board's decision easier to take. Particularly after the FA Cup debacle.

My own opinion is that the squad is chock full of model professionals and I've got no concerns about their ability to work under Pellegrini.

2. Deal with a midfield that can't survive being pressed by the opposition.

Newcastle did this. We destroyed them... and that's putting it lightly. A few others might try this, but I suspect they'll be put to the proverbial sword doing so. I feel this problem was more serious than the parked-bus phenomenon, which is the next point, as that is how the best teams play whilst defending. You'll rarely see a Champions League squad parking the bus. They press. From all appearances, we can now deal with that well mostly by the manager allowing that sometimes you don't always play percentages. You take some risky passes and let the players' quality shine through.

Agree for the most part.

3. Deal with parked buses.

I hope you'll note I said that being pressed was the most concerning issue on the pitch last season. We didn't do extraordinarily well versus the parked bus technique last season, but that was mostly down to repeatedly attempting to force a singular tactic, ie short balls through the middle creating interplay to confuse the defenders, down the opposition's throat instead of adopting a secondary tactic to undo the opposition's defense. There was only one way this could have worsened, and unfortunately that appears to be what's happened so far. I say "so far" because it can still be rectified. Against Cardiff, the players appeared to have no clue as to how to approach a parked bus. I'm not saying they are unable to comprehend it. No, I'm saying they weren't prepared by the manager as to how they should break that style of defending down. Having no tactic is worse than having one badly implemented tactic. I do not know how long it will take for Pellegrini to instill his method of breaking down a parked bus, but he had best be quick because you're going to see many in the league.

I actually think this is linked to your second point. Overall we need to play with a much higher tempo and press much higher up the field away from home if we want to score more goals than we did last season. We didn't do that at Cardiff, and I said earlier that I suspect Pellegrini second guessed himself in terms of asking the fullbacks and midfield to sit deeper to protect Lescott and Garcia. Time will tell but I'd expect against Stoke we'll see a higher defensive line, higher intensity and pressing, and generally a much more Pellegrini'esque performance.

4. Set pieces have significantly worsened.

This is the point I referenced as the manager having let himself and all of us down where we were strong. Frankly, I'm baffled. I have no idea why he implemented man-marking on set pieces and I have no idea what he's going to do about it. There's simply no excuse, and the manager needs to take a long, hard look in the mirror regarding his failure on this front. Is it okay to alter the system? Of course, it is. The issue lies in that this area seems similar to the parked-bus issue in that the players seemingly had no idea how to proceed.

I think you overstate the case significantly. They scored from two set pieces where the same player was marking the goal scorer. It wasn't the best defending in the world and nobody covered themselves in glory, but equally you can hardly say the manager failed because he implemented a new system. Was the system to blame or the players absent mindedness. Had we zonally marked would Zaba have gone to sleep anyway. Who knows.

Now all of this is early, but I firmly believe that the structural issues on the pitch are being addressed by the manager. I hope he succeeds quickly.

This is why i think it's best to at least a half a dozen competitive games or so before judging his methods and the way he wants the team to play. You can't expect him or the players to know exactly what's expected of them from day one.

 

[BobKowalski]

3. Deal with parked buses.

I hope you'll note I said that being pressed was the most concerning issue on the pitch last season. We didn't do extraordinarily well versus the parked bus technique last season, but that was mostly down to repeatedly attempting to force a singular tactic, ie short balls through the middle creating interplay to confuse the defenders, down the opposition's throat instead of adopting a secondary tactic to undo the opposition's defense. There was only one way this could have worsened, and unfortunately that appears to be what's happened so far. I say "so far" because it can still be rectified. Against Cardiff, the players appeared to have no clue as to how to approach a parked bus. I'm not saying they are unable to comprehend it. No, I'm saying they weren't prepared by the manager as to how they should break that style of defending down. Having no tactic is worse than having one badly implemented tactic. I do not know how long it will take for Pellegrini to instill his method of breaking down a parked bus, but he had best be quick because you're going to see many in the league.

.

Your post isn't bad but at this point I think you are very wrong.

There's only one way to deal with a team packing men behind the ball and that's to play with genuine width. That achieves two things: it stretches the defensive side and that opens up gaps. Also, it allows men to get behind the fullbacks and to the line in wide areas and ping back dangerous balls which, if touched, can go in.

We did that in spades on Saturday. We were patient and by the beginning of the second half we were absolutely and totally in control. Cardiff's pressing game was losing it's effectiveness as they tired and we were picking holes in their defence. A few one twos and touches didn't come off but, effectively, 70 minutes into the game and it was mission accomplished. We'd gone a goal up, silenced the crowd and looked like winning comfortably.

Then we presented them with not one, not two, but three gift goals. All the while they got them they stuck men behind the ball but we still got another goal and missed two or three absolute clear cut chances to snatch a point.

Our patchy tempo was because we had two centre halves who were frightened of the ball and who kept giving it to an out-of-position and out-of-form Yaya, who kept plonking it sideways or backwards, or lobbing it to their keeper. Now that is a problem which needs to be solved immediately. It shouldnt be an issue against Hull but Yaya cannot play as one of two holding players for the rest of the season. He is either dropped for Rodwell/Milner or moved to a more advanced role in a different system. That's the big issue facing Pellegrini, not our inability to break down a defensive team. I think we have solved that problem already.

I partly disagree. Its not width as such but movement and quality movement which stretches and causes uncertainty be that narrow or wide. Against Cardiff our movement was pedestrian and relatively easy to cope with hence the lack of chances. We actually crossed the ball more than anyone else this weekend and it was not noticeably successful save for Negrado when it was too late. Cardiff conceded width to us to concentrate on the danger area as they saw it ie where Silva drifts in and plays the short, interchange game. For me width is just an option to be employed in the general mix of things rather than a cure for all ills.

Now whilst I said 'relatively easy to cope with' it still takes an immense amount of physical and mental energy to keep us at bay and I agree that at the point of scoring our gameplan had effectively just hit the jackpot. They were tiring and we should have dispensed with them as we usually do in these circumstances. That we didn't was down to a lack of concentration (something Mancini banged on about for roughly his first 18 months) and the change from zonal to man marking on a makeshift back four which was already feeling the pressure without the change. That was just dumb planning.

 

[taconinja]

1. Get the players on-board.

I think he's done that well. The players seem to like and admire him. I haven't seen Zabaleta's interview yesterday but I've read snippets. May I ask if he sounded measured in his response or if he sounded tuned out. The latter would be a problem. There is one inherent danger in the manner which last season unfolded. It's quite probable that some players now think they can get a manager fired at-will. Hopefully, the board backs the manager to the hilt. We may not find the idea palatable that one or more players would do that, but they did it once. As an addendum to that last point, much of that was Mancini's fault, but athletes can be rather like children. They learn via experience. They've experienced that shutting down on the field over various perceived and real slights gets rid of a manager. It would be negligent not to consider they might do this again if things aren't going well and they feel pressured.

Your starting point seems to be that the players got Mancini sacked. To be honest, without wanting to completely rehash old arguments, ultimately they didn't. It was his relationship with the people he worked for that led to his sacking. The fact the players disliked him just made the board's decision easier to take. Particularly after the FA Cup debacle.

My own opinion is that the squad is chock full of model professionals and I've got no concerns about their ability to work under Pellegrini.

I perhaps should have stressed more emphatically that I feel that it was Mancini's failure that led to the disintegration of on-pitch effort last season. He's the manager. He has to take responsibility when that happens. He didn't. He failed. He was sacked. Rightly. The problem is that people can learn bad habits. It's a danger. I don't know if it will happen, but not keeping it in mind is negligent I think.

2. Deal with a midfield that can't survive being pressed by the opposition.

Newcastle did this. We destroyed them... and that's putting it lightly. A few others might try this, but I suspect they'll be put to the proverbial sword doing so. I feel this problem was more serious than the parked-bus phenomenon, which is the next point, as that is how the best teams play whilst defending. You'll rarely see a Champions League squad parking the bus. They press. From all appearances, we can now deal with that well mostly by the manager allowing that sometimes you don't always play percentages. You take some risky passes and let the players' quality shine through.

Agree for the most part.

3. Deal with parked buses.

I hope you'll note I said that being pressed was the most concerning issue on the pitch last season. We didn't do extraordinarily well versus the parked bus technique last season, but that was mostly down to repeatedly attempting to force a singular tactic, ie short balls through the middle creating interplay to confuse the defenders, down the opposition's throat instead of adopting a secondary tactic to undo the opposition's defense. There was only one way this could have worsened, and unfortunately that appears to be what's happened so far. I say "so far" because it can still be rectified. Against Cardiff, the players appeared to have no clue as to how to approach a parked bus. I'm not saying they are unable to comprehend it. No, I'm saying they weren't prepared by the manager as to how they should break that style of defending down. Having no tactic is worse than having one badly implemented tactic. I do not know how long it will take for Pellegrini to instill his method of breaking down a parked bus, but he had best be quick because you're going to see many in the league.

I actually think this is linked to your second point. Overall we need to play with a much higher tempo and press much higher up the field away from home if we want to score more goals than we did last season. We didn't do that at Cardiff, and I said earlier that I suspect Pellegrini second guessed himself in terms of asking the fullbacks and midfield to sit deeper to protect Lescott and Garcia. Time will tell but I'd expect against Stoke we'll see a higher defensive line, higher intensity and pressing, and generally a much more Pellegrini'esque performance.

Very salient points. I agree.

4. Set pieces have significantly worsened.

This is the point I referenced as the manager having let himself and all of us down where we were strong. Frankly, I'm baffled. I have no idea why he implemented man-marking on set pieces and I have no idea what he's going to do about it. There's simply no excuse, and the manager needs to take a long, hard look in the mirror regarding his failure on this front. Is it okay to alter the system? Of course, it is. The issue lies in that this area seems similar to the parked-bus issue in that the players seemingly had no idea how to proceed.

I think you overstate the case significantly. They scored from two set pieces where the same player was marking the goal scorer. It wasn't the best defending in the world and nobody covered themselves in glory, but equally you can hardly say the manager failed because he implemented a new system. Was the system to blame or the players absent mindedness. Had we zonally marked would Zaba have gone to sleep anyway. Who knows.

Quite possibly. I tend to worry when players seem lost on the pitch. Perhaps overly worry.

Now all of this is early, but I firmly believe that the structural issues on the pitch are being addressed by the manager. I hope he succeeds quickly.

This is why i think it's best to at least a half a dozen competitive games or so before judging his methods and the way he wants the team to play. You can't expect him or the players to know exactly what's expected of them from day one.

I think you're being optimistic. I think it will take half a season to even mostly break the bad habits learned previously and to get everyone on the same page. I just hope this board doesn't implode in the meantime.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

I disagree respectfully as I don't think our forwards and midfielders were on the same page at the same time. When the midfielders were attempting short passes through the middle, the forwards appeared to go towards the goal denying extra outlets to create space. When the midfielders went wide, the forwards weren't deep in the box to play for crosses. Add to that the fact that when Silva and Navas went wide, Zabaleta and Clichy failed to give them secondary choices in a proper manner for the most part (and when they did, the midfielders didn't take advantage) and you have a recipe for disaster. We held possession well. We went wide holding that possession well. We didn't create the opportunities necessary when we went wide or centrally.

And to be quite honest, I'm not extremely worried at this point. The manager hasn't had nearly enough time to break bad, older habits instilled by the previous system. I would hope though that the level of players we have wouldn't have appeared quite so lost against a parked bus. It isn't as if they've never seen one before.

I'm not worried either. Not at all. The time to be worried is if the manager proves unwilling or unable to redress problems - and there are bound to be teething troubles with a new manager, new system and new players. And most of all, having lost three of our best defenders at the exact time we are in the market for another.

Going back to the wide areas, Zab caused us a few problems (and I saw a bit of this against Newcastle too) by overlapping and running into Navas's space, where he is much less effective. For me, Richards is the answer. But we got width other ways too. When Silva drifts infield we are clearly asking the striker (Aguero predominantly) to move out wide to stop us becoming narrow. This works too. It's simple: your bus is significantly less effective if it's 100 yards long instead of the 50 it ends up when we have Nasri and Silva coming inside all the time.

Let's be honest abut this, this was a freak result in lots of ways. With Kompany in there I believe we'd have strolled away with a 3-0 victory. If our defenders and keeper had have done their jobs we'd have had a comfortable victory.

Creativity is not going to be a problem this season. Goals is not going to be. I'll go one step further: if we keep Navas and Silva fit breaking down defensive teams will no longer be an issue either. The problem which needs solving is at the base of the midfield. The centre half problem will sort itself out when we get better personnel playing (new or old).

 

[Anonymous]

I think you're being optimistic. I think it will take half a season to even mostly break the bad habits learned previously and to get everyone on the same page. I just hope this board doesn't implode in the meantime.

I actually think the CL will help. Players need competitive games to get their heads around a particular playing style or change in tactic.

There's something which Pellegrini touched upon in all his press conferences with regards to tactics/playing style. He said that his teams need to play with the same aggression and attitude from the first minute to the last. It's something which we lacked in abundance against Cardiff. It's why it felt like such an unlikely performance for one of his teams to put in. I'm glad our next away game is at Stoke. It's a tough and uncompromising place to go and we'll know a lot more about Pellegrini, the players, and how they are working together after that.

 

[taconinja]

I disagree respectfully as I don't think our forwards and midfielders were on the same page at the same time. When the midfielders were attempting short passes through the middle, the forwards appeared to go towards the goal denying extra outlets to create space. When the midfielders went wide, the forwards weren't deep in the box to play for crosses. Add to that the fact that when Silva and Navas went wide, Zabaleta and Clichy failed to give them secondary choices in a proper manner for the most part (and when they did, the midfielders didn't take advantage) and you have a recipe for disaster. We held possession well. We went wide holding that possession well. We didn't create the opportunities necessary when we went wide or centrally.

And to be quite honest, I'm not extremely worried at this point. The manager hasn't had nearly enough time to break bad, older habits instilled by the previous system. I would hope though that the level of players we have wouldn't have appeared quite so lost against a parked bus. It isn't as if they've never seen one before.

I'm not worried either. Not at all. The time to be worried is if the manager proves unwilling or unable to redress problems - and there are bound to be teething troubles with a new manager, new system and new players. And most of all, having lost three of our best defenders at the exact time we are in the market for another.

Going back to the wide areas, Zab caused us a few problems (and I saw a bit of this against Newcastle too) by overlapping and running into Navas's space, where he is much less effective. For me, Richards is the answer. But we got width other ways too. When Silva drifts infield we are clearly asking the striker (Aguero predominantly) to move out wide to stop us becoming narrow. This works too. It's simple: your bus is significantly less effective if it's 100 yards long instead of the 50 it ends up when we have Nasri and Silva coming inside all the time.

Let's be honest abut this, this was a freak result in lots of ways. With Kompany in there I believe we'd have strolled away with a 3-0 victory. If our defenders and keeper had have done their jobs we'd have had a comfortable victory.

Creativity is not going to be a problem this season. Goals is not going to be. I'll go one step further: if we keep Navas and Silva fit breaking down defensive teams will no longer be an issue either. The problem which needs solving is at the base of the midfield. The centre half problem will sort itself out when we get better personnel playing (new or old).

Hard to find fault in that analysis and I don't. If anything, I suppose I wish we had a natural left wing player, but I'm curious to see Jovetic get a shot at that with one of Aguero, Dzeko, or Negredo being the central forward.

Edit: As a point of clarification, it wasn't that Aguero and Dzeko were drifting wide that I think caused issues, it was them being near the edge of the 18-yard box when Navas was looking to cross that I think needs correcting.<br /><br />-- Tue Aug 27, 2013 9:29 am --<br /><br />

I think you're being optimistic. I think it will take half a season to even mostly break the bad habits learned previously and to get everyone on the same page. I just hope this board doesn't implode in the meantime.

I actually think the CL will help. Players need competitive games to get their heads around a particular playing style or change in tactic.

There's something which Pellegrini touched upon in all his press conferences with regards to tactics/playing style. He said that his teams need to play with the same aggression and attitude from the first minute to the last. It's something which we lacked in abundance against Cardiff. It's why it felt like such an unlikely performance for one of his teams to put in. I'm glad our next away game is at Stoke. It's a tough and uncompromising place to go and we'll know a lot more about Pellegrini, the players, and how they are working together after that.

That could very well be key. I'm not sure how many parked buses they'll face, but I'm fairly confident with Fernandinho and Toure, we can handle pressing better and gain confidence in matches.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

3. Deal with parked buses.

I hope you'll note I said that being pressed was the most concerning issue on the pitch last season. We didn't do extraordinarily well versus the parked bus technique last season, but that was mostly down to repeatedly attempting to force a singular tactic, ie short balls through the middle creating interplay to confuse the defenders, down the opposition's throat instead of adopting a secondary tactic to undo the opposition's defense. There was only one way this could have worsened, and unfortunately that appears to be what's happened so far. I say "so far" because it can still be rectified. Against Cardiff, the players appeared to have no clue as to how to approach a parked bus. I'm not saying they are unable to comprehend it. No, I'm saying they weren't prepared by the manager as to how they should break that style of defending down. Having no tactic is worse than having one badly implemented tactic. I do not know how long it will take for Pellegrini to instill his method of breaking down a parked bus, but he had best be quick because you're going to see many in the league.

.

Your post isn't bad but at this point I think you are very wrong.

There's only one way to deal with a team packing men behind the ball and that's to play with genuine width. That achieves two things: it stretches the defensive side and that opens up gaps. Also, it allows men to get behind the fullbacks and to the line in wide areas and ping back dangerous balls which, if touched, can go in.

We did that in spades on Saturday. We were patient and by the beginning of the second half we were absolutely and totally in control. Cardiff's pressing game was losing it's effectiveness as they tired and we were picking holes in their defence. A few one twos and touches didn't come off but, effectively, 70 minutes into the game and it was mission accomplished. We'd gone a goal up, silenced the crowd and looked like winning comfortably.

Then we presented them with not one, not two, but three gift goals. All the while they got them they stuck men behind the ball but we still got another goal and missed two or three absolute clear cut chances to snatch a point.

Our patchy tempo was because we had two centre halves who were frightened of the ball and who kept giving it to an out-of-position and out-of-form Yaya, who kept plonking it sideways or backwards, or lobbing it to their keeper. Now that is a problem which needs to be solved immediately. It shouldnt be an issue against Hull but Yaya cannot play as one of two holding players for the rest of the season. He is either dropped for Rodwell/Milner or moved to a more advanced role in a different system. That's the big issue facing Pellegrini, not our inability to break down a defensive team. I think we have solved that problem already.

I partly disagree. Its not width as such but movement and quality movement which stretches and causes uncertainty be that narrow or wide. Against Cardiff our movement was pedestrian and relatively easy to cope with hence the lack of chances. We actually crossed the ball more than anyone else this weekend and it was not noticeably successful save for Negrado when it was too late. Cardiff conceded width to us to concentrate on the danger area as they saw it ie where Silva drifts in and plays the short, interchange game. For me width is just an option to be employed in the general mix of things rather than a cure for all ills.

Now whilst I said 'relatively easy to cope with' it still takes an immense amount of physical and mental energy to keep us at bay and I agree that at the point of scoring our gameplan had effectively just hit the jackpot. They were tiring and we should have dispensed with them as we usually do in these circumstances. That we didn't was down to a lack of concentration (something Mancini banged on about for roughly his first 18 months) and the change from zonal to man marking on a makeshift back four which was already feeling the pressure without the change. That was just dumb planning.

I'm not presenting width as a panacea for everything. I'm presenting it as an extra and important dimension against a defensive team. Alex Ferguson used it for 20 years and that's why they kept getting late goals. I honestly don't see movement as a problem either. Negredo moves very well, and I think Jovetic does too. Aguero is one of the cleverest runners in the game, and with Silva and Navas we have the players who can find this space. But the movement you are referring to is much harder to do cleverly if the game is compacted in the central areas. So in a nutshell, playing with width opens the game up for David Silva. And you can bet your bottom dollar Cardiff didn't want that. They were lucky: he had one of those rare games where nothing quite came off for him. On other days he'll create a bagful of chances from the same positions.

Your last point I do agree with totally. I don't know what was behind it, whether it was the personnel or the marking changes. But we cannot of course give silly goals like that away. And three in a game beggers belief. I want to see this put right over the next few games and City to come roaring back.

 

[Anonymous]

Creativity is not going to be a problem this season. Goals is not going to be. I'll go one step further: if we keep Navas and Silva fit breaking down defensive teams will no longer be an issue either. The problem which needs solving is at the base of the midfield. The centre half problem will sort itself out when we get better personnel playing (new or old).

Y'know I'm always loathed to get into discussions about Yaya because I understand how divisive he can be as a player. FWIW, I think the problem we had on Sunday began from the fullbacks starting point being too deep. Medel and the Icelandic guy didn't have to worry about Clichy and Zab because they were entering the attacking phase of play until later. The knock on effect was that the outlets Yaya and Fernandinho had right and left were limited whilst the pressure they themselves were under was amplified. Put simply, our fullbacks need to press home and away like they did against Newcastle. Right up the field. This will create space in the middle because Navas/Zab in particular need to doubled up on other wise they'll pass the ball around you or leave you for dead with raw pace.

Alternatively I do agree that if we're going to play a conservative style at times, then we should do that by forsaking a centre forward, and playing Rodwell as a third midfield player to give Yaya license to move into the attacking third and cause problems that way.

 

[taconinja]

Your post isn't bad but at this point I think you are very wrong.

There's only one way to deal with a team packing men behind the ball and that's to play with genuine width. That achieves two things: it stretches the defensive side and that opens up gaps. Also, it allows men to get behind the fullbacks and to the line in wide areas and ping back dangerous balls which, if touched, can go in.

We did that in spades on Saturday. We were patient and by the beginning of the second half we were absolutely and totally in control. Cardiff's pressing game was losing it's effectiveness as they tired and we were picking holes in their defence. A few one twos and touches didn't come off but, effectively, 70 minutes into the game and it was mission accomplished. We'd gone a goal up, silenced the crowd and looked like winning comfortably.

Then we presented them with not one, not two, but three gift goals. All the while they got them they stuck men behind the ball but we still got another goal and missed two or three absolute clear cut chances to snatch a point.

Our patchy tempo was because we had two centre halves who were frightened of the ball and who kept giving it to an out-of-position and out-of-form Yaya, who kept plonking it sideways or backwards, or lobbing it to their keeper. Now that is a problem which needs to be solved immediately. It shouldnt be an issue against Hull but Yaya cannot play as one of two holding players for the rest of the season. He is either dropped for Rodwell/Milner or moved to a more advanced role in a different system. That's the big issue facing Pellegrini, not our inability to break down a defensive team. I think we have solved that problem already.

I partly disagree. Its not width as such but movement and quality movement which stretches and causes uncertainty be that narrow or wide. Against Cardiff our movement was pedestrian and relatively easy to cope with hence the lack of chances. We actually crossed the ball more than anyone else this weekend and it was not noticeably successful save for Negrado when it was too late. Cardiff conceded width to us to concentrate on the danger area as they saw it ie where Silva drifts in and plays the short, interchange game. For me width is just an option to be employed in the general mix of things rather than a cure for all ills.

Now whilst I said 'relatively easy to cope with' it still takes an immense amount of physical and mental energy to keep us at bay and I agree that at the point of scoring our gameplan had effectively just hit the jackpot. They were tiring and we should have dispensed with them as we usually do in these circumstances. That we didn't was down to a lack of concentration (something Mancini banged on about for roughly his first 18 months) and the change from zonal to man marking on a makeshift back four which was already feeling the pressure without the change. That was just dumb planning.

I'm not presenting width as a panacea for everything. I'm presenting it as an extra and important dimension against a defensive team. Alex Ferguson used it for 20 years and that's why they kept getting late goals. I honestly don't see movement as a problem either. Negredo moves very well, and I think Jovetic does too. Aguero is one of the cleverest runners in the game, and with Silva and Navas we have the players who can find this space. But the movement you are referring to is much harder to do cleverly if the game is compacted in the central areas. So in a nutshell, playing with width opens the game up for David Silva. And you can bet your bottom dollar Cardiff didn't want that. They were lucky: he had one of those rare games where nothing quite came off for him. On other days he'll create a bagful of chances from the same positions.

Your last point I do agree with totally. I don't know what was behind it, whether it was the personnel or the marking changes. But we cannot of course give silly goals like that away. And three in a game beggers belief. I want to see this put right over the next few games and City to come roaring back.

I heard the announcers mention that it was a very warm day. As a person from a much warmer climate, I'm not really comfortable proclaiming that might have sapped some concentration on Sunday, but what would all of you say? I realize it's early, but 70 minutes in the heat can wear on a person I think.

 

[BobKowalski]

I partly disagree. Its not width as such but movement and quality movement which stretches and causes uncertainty be that narrow or wide. Against Cardiff our movement was pedestrian and relatively easy to cope with hence the lack of chances. We actually crossed the ball more than anyone else this weekend and it was not noticeably successful save for Negrado when it was too late. Cardiff conceded width to us to concentrate on the danger area as they saw it ie where Silva drifts in and plays the short, interchange game. For me width is just an option to be employed in the general mix of things rather than a cure for all ills.

Now whilst I said 'relatively easy to cope with' it still takes an immense amount of physical and mental energy to keep us at bay and I agree that at the point of scoring our gameplan had effectively just hit the jackpot. They were tiring and we should have dispensed with them as we usually do in these circumstances. That we didn't was down to a lack of concentration (something Mancini banged on about for roughly his first 18 months) and the change from zonal to man marking on a makeshift back four which was already feeling the pressure without the change. That was just dumb planning.

I'm not presenting width as a panacea for everything. I'm presenting it as an extra and important dimension against a defensive team. Alex Ferguson used it for 20 years and that's why they kept getting late goals. I honestly don't see movement as a problem either. Negredo moves very well, and I think Jovetic does too. Aguero is one of the cleverest runners in the game, and with Silva and Navas we have the players who can find this space. But the movement you are referring to is much harder to do cleverly if the game is compacted in the central areas. So in a nutshell, playing with width opens the game up for David Silva. And you can bet your bottom dollar Cardiff didn't want that. They were lucky: he had one of those rare games where nothing quite came off for him. On other days he'll create a bagful of chances from the same positions.

Your last point I do agree with totally. I don't know what was behind it, whether it was the personnel or the marking changes. But we cannot of course give silly goals like that away. And three in a game beggers belief. I want to see this put right over the next few games and City to come roaring back.

I heard the announcers mention that it was a very warm day. As a person from a much warmer climate, I'm not really comfortable proclaiming that might have sapped some concentration on Sunday, but what would all of you say? I realize it's early, but 70 minutes in the heat can wear on a person I think.

A non factor in my opinion and if was a factor then it was Cardiff who would have felt it more given they had expended much more energy as a team than we had. We just get a bit giddy when the sun starts shining.