Discuss Pellegrini

[waspish]

After only 2 competitive games by Pelegrini even against Newcastle the way he is going to set up our defence will be a worry, teams with poor defences win fcuk all..

 

[Anonymous]

After only 2 competitive games by Pelegrini even against Newcastle the way he is going to set up our defence will be a worry, teams with poor defences win fcuk all..

The rags shipped 9 more goals than us last season, but I do take your point. If you're shit at defending you won't win much.

 

[St Helens Blue (Exiled)]

Last season we had a discussion about whether we had declined since last season, and the argument was over as soon as the season finished as the results provided the proof.

Then that left the discussion as who was responsible: The conclusion was Mancini

The opening away game exhibited two faults:

1) Bad Defending: Put that down to 3 injured Centre-Backs plus change to man to man marking at corners. Understandandable

2) Slow build-up play and monopoly of possession with almost zero efforts on goal that smacks of complacency

It's the 2nd point that's concerning, and makes you wonder whether Mancini should have been backed. Maybe he fell out with the players because they were not playing with the passion and desire he expected?

No point punishing Pellegrini for that. But the Cardiff game reminded me of the listless Wembley Performance, Do the players have the hunger? This is a legitimate question based on how last season finished and how this season ha started. It's the away games which show up the attitude

I am certain if Mancini had gotten Hazard,RVP or Cavani and we'd won the league again (all hypethetical I know) would the board have changed.
Oh well..looking forward to what this season brings...

 

[FantasyIreland]

After only 2 competitive games by Pelegrini even against Newcastle the way he is going to set up our defence will be a worry, teams with poor defences win fcuk all..

When 50 percent of our defence returns and his methods understood I think he can be better judged<br /><br />-- 27 Aug 2013 13:25 --<br /><br />

After only 2 competitive games by Pelegrini even against Newcastle the way he is going to set up our defence will be a worry, teams with poor defences win fcuk all..

When 50 percent of our defence returns and his methods understood I think he can be better judged

 

[Danamy]

Last season we had a discussion about whether we had declined since last season, and the argument was over as soon as the season finished as the results provided the proof.

Then that left the discussion as who was responsible: The conclusion was Mancini

The opening away game exhibited two faults:

1) Bad Defending: Put that down to 3 injured Centre-Backs plus change to man to man marking at corners. Understandandable

2) Slow build-up play and monopoly of possession with almost zero efforts on goal that smacks of complacency

It's the 2nd point that's concerning, and makes you wonder whether Mancini should have been backed. Maybe he fell out with the players because they were not playing with the passion and desire he expected?

No point punishing Pellegrini for that. But the Cardiff game reminded me of the listless Wembley Performance, Do the players have the hunger? This is a legitimate question based on how last season finished and how this season ha started. It's the away games which show up the attitude

I am certain if Mancini had gotten Hazard,RVP or Cavani and we'd won the league again (all hypethetical I know) would the board have changed.
Oh well..looking forward to what this season brings...

I'm puzzled, everyone's saying that it's our defence that's the weakness yet you haven't named one defender?

Do you believe that we don't need to strengthen in this area or is it just an oversight on your part?

 

[Anonymous]

Do you believe that we don't need to strengthen in this area or is it just an oversight on your part?

I think what he means is that Mancini, with Tevez, Aguero, Balotelli, and Dzeko didn't have enough firepower to win the league with a watertight defence. So it goes without saying that with Pellegrini's limited defensive prowess the club will have to go out and sign Messi and Ronaldo to give him a fighting chance ... ;)

 

[taconinja]

This is, of course, getting very acrimonious. Many supporters are not “behind” Pellegrini: Billy Shears et al were certainly never “behind” Mancini. I admit frankly that I am not “behind” Pellegrini, but my loyalty has always been to the club and the team. I was never “behind” Mancini, or, for that matter, Mark Hughes. I wanted them to be successful, I wanted City to play well. And I wanted them to win trophies. I still want that and I hope that Pellegrini can do that. But I have no personal loyalty to anyone; the team as a team comes first.

The club felt that Mancini wouldn't do it again for one reason or another and felt that, far from progressing, the team was going backwards. That was their judgement and on that basis they sacked the manager. There's no point in crying over spilt milk; I want the team to win so I want Pellegrini to be a success in the job. But there was never a “Pellegrini in” movement either at the club or among the fans. Billy Shears & Co simply didn't like Mancini and wanted him out for a very long time. They were never “behind” Mancini in the way they expect people to be “behind” Mancini. Nor did they ever really want Pellegrini. Their candidates were “Pep” (we're all apparently personal friends) Mourinho then Klopp – the second had no support whatsoever from the board and the third would not leave Dortmund. But in the end anyone would do. Guardiola was the board's choice, but he wouldn't come. The “outers”, of course, rallied to him. Only when reports of City contacts with Pellegrini emerged from Malaga did anyone consider him and begin to tell us that he was a clear upgrade on Mancini. There was even a thread in August, when rumours spread of discontent with “Pep” at Munich, asking if we should sack Pellegrini immediately if “Pep” became available! Right “behind” you, Manuel!

I was impressed last Monday: I was horrified on Sunday. Those opposed to Mancini's dismissal are bound to ask, in the wake of Sunday's debacle, in what way he is an upgrade on Mancini. He's had £90 million spent on the players he wants (which Mancini didn't get last August), he's had a full pre-season but lost his second PL match to a team of players who wouldn't get anywhere near our club let alone the first team. At set pieces we were a shambles. Doubters are entitled to ask what exactly it is in his CV which suggests he can do anywhere near as well as Mancini. He managed in Spain for 9 years and won nothing. He got to the semi-final and quarter final of the CL but he didn't win it. He has to prove that he can make City better than they have been under Mancini before many of us will give him our confidence, and you can rant all you like Billy, but you won't change anything. A view expressed by one City fan, and he was a real fan Billy whatever you say, on Sunday evening was that he was no different to a Chilean David Moyes. Only results will change that perception, held by some real City fans.

Good post. Hope it doesn't get ignored.

As I see it, Pellegrini has done two of the three things he needed to do; however, he's also let himself, the club, and the fans down in an area where we were strong. Yes, I realize this is after two games, but the weaknesses appeared structural, ie without a structural change the weaknesses will continue and worsen.

1. Get the players on-board.

I think he's done that well. The players seem to like and admire him. I haven't seen Zabaleta's interview yesterday but I've read snippets. May I ask if he sounded measured in his response or if he sounded tuned out. The latter would be a problem. There is one inherent danger in the manner which last season unfolded. It's quite probable that some players now think they can get a manager fired at-will. Hopefully, the board backs the manager to the hilt. We may not find the idea palatable that one or more players would do that, but they did it once. As an addendum to that last point, much of that was Mancini's fault, but athletes can be rather like children. They learn via experience. They've experienced that shutting down on the field over various perceived and real slights gets rid of a manager. It would be negligent not to consider they might do this again if things aren't going well and they feel pressured.

2. Deal with a midfield that can't survive being pressed by the opposition.

Newcastle did this. We destroyed them... and that's putting it lightly. A few others might try this, but I suspect they'll be put to the proverbial sword doing so. I feel this problem was more serious than the parked-bus phenomenon, which is the next point, as that is how the best teams play whilst defending. You'll rarely see a Champions League squad parking the bus. They press. From all appearances, we can now deal with that well mostly by the manager allowing that sometimes you don't always play percentages. You take some risky passes and let the players' quality shine through.

3. Deal with parked buses.

I hope you'll note I said that being pressed was the most concerning issue on the pitch last season. We didn't do extraordinarily well versus the parked bus technique last season, but that was mostly down to repeatedly attempting to force a singular tactic, ie short balls through the middle creating interplay to confuse the defenders, down the opposition's throat instead of adopting a secondary tactic to undo the opposition's defense. There was only one way this could have worsened, and unfortunately that appears to be what's happened so far. I say "so far" because it can still be rectified. Against Cardiff, the players appeared to have no clue as to how to approach a parked bus. I'm not saying they are unable to comprehend it. No, I'm saying they weren't prepared by the manager as to how they should break that style of defending down. Having no tactic is worse than having one badly implemented tactic. I do not know how long it will take for Pellegrini to instill his method of breaking down a parked bus, but he had best be quick because you're going to see many in the league.

4. Set pieces have significantly worsened.

This is the point I referenced as the manager having let himself and all of us down where we were strong. Frankly, I'm baffled. I have no idea why he implemented man-marking on set pieces and I have no idea what he's going to do about it. There's simply no excuse, and the manager needs to take a long, hard look in the mirror regarding his failure on this front. Is it okay to alter the system? Of course, it is. The issue lies in that this area seems similar to the parked-bus issue in that the players seemingly had no idea how to proceed.

Now all of this is early, but I firmly believe that the structural issues on the pitch are being addressed by the manager. I hope he succeeds quickly.<br /><br />-- Tue Aug 27, 2013 8:36 am --<br /><br />

Last season we had a discussion about whether we had declined since last season, and the argument was over as soon as the season finished as the results provided the proof.

Then that left the discussion as who was responsible: The conclusion was Mancini

The opening away game exhibited two faults:

1) Bad Defending: Put that down to 3 injured Centre-Backs plus change to man to man marking at corners. Understandandable

2) Slow build-up play and monopoly of possession with almost zero efforts on goal that smacks of complacency

It's the 2nd point that's concerning, and makes you wonder whether Mancini should have been backed. Maybe he fell out with the players because they were not playing with the passion and desire he expected?

No point punishing Pellegrini for that. But the Cardiff game reminded me of the listless Wembley Performance, Do the players have the hunger? This is a legitimate question based on how last season finished and how this season ha started. It's the away games which show up the attitude

I am certain if Mancini had gotten Hazard,RVP or Cavani and we'd won the league again (all hypethetical I know) would the board have changed.
Oh well..looking forward to what this season brings...

I'm puzzled, everyone's saying that it's our defence that's the weakness yet you haven't named one defender?

Do you believe that we don't need to strengthen in this area or is it just an oversight on your part?

I'll name two. Clichy and Zabaleta both completely failed in every single aspect of the game this past weekend. That's really inexcusable against a club almost certain to be in a relegation battle the entire season.

 

[samharris]

This place is full of *****?

Last time I checked this wasn't breaking news ... :)

On your post from earlier, I should've used a different analogy because my point wasn't to denigrate Mancini for looking at other jobs (even though I know I've done that in the past). Within the context of me taking piss out of St Helen, I was just pointing out to him that he was pining for someone who was gone, which if you do it about a woman is almost forgivable, but doing it about a football manager when the new guy hasn't even had a chance is embarrassing.

-- Tue Aug 27, 2013 1:02 pm --

I don't rate Pellegrini. I didn't rate him before he was appointed, since he was appointed or now. I have seen Pellegrini in action 3 times in competitive games. His last for Malaga (they were shit), Newcastle (we were good) and Cardiff (fill in the blank).

I do not have enough evidence to rate Pellegrini anymore than I rated Mancini when he first arrived. I knew little about Mancini and I am in the same position with Pellegrini. I will form an opinion on Pellegrini after more games. Its not a difficult concept.

Good luck forming an opinion to challenge the uninformed one you currently have. Let me know when the formation is complete and informed and we'll have an informed discussion.

Ok Billy - I'm in a fairly reasonable mood, so I'll humour you awhile.
Could you possibly explain to a simple soul like myself exactly why BobKowalski, ( a poster I think talks a lot of sense and makes his case well ), is 'uninformed', whereas you, who live in another country and come over for a handful of games a year, presumably is clued-up and has his finger on the pulse.
Oh, and it's grossly unfair to tar us all with the same Johnny-Come-Lately brush in thinking you are a **** for the last 12 months.
A fair few of us have thought it for an awful lot longer.

Whoops - nearly forgot - :)

I bet that doesnt get replied to.. ;)

 

[St Helens Blue (Exiled)]

Last season we had a discussion about whether we had declined since last season, and the argument was over as soon as the season finished as the results provided the proof.

Then that left the discussion as who was responsible: The conclusion was Mancini

The opening away game exhibited two faults:

1) Bad Defending: Put that down to 3 injured Centre-Backs plus change to man to man marking at corners. Understandandable

2) Slow build-up play and monopoly of possession with almost zero efforts on goal that smacks of complacency

It's the 2nd point that's concerning, and makes you wonder whether Mancini should have been backed. Maybe he fell out with the players because they were not playing with the passion and desire he expected?

No point punishing Pellegrini for that. But the Cardiff game reminded me of the listless Wembley Performance, Do the players have the hunger? This is a legitimate question based on how last season finished and how this season ha started. It's the away games which show up the attitude

I am certain if Mancini had gotten Hazard,RVP or Cavani and we'd won the league again (all hypethetical I know) would the board have changed.
Oh well..looking forward to what this season brings...

I'm puzzled, everyone's saying that it's our defence that's the weakness yet you haven't named one defender?

Do you believe that we don't need to strengthen in this area or is it just an oversight on your part?

We only need to strengthen the defence IMO because we let Kolo go.
VK,Lescott,Boyata,Kolo,Garcia,Richards,Clichy,Zabba that is a good defence to pick from.

 

[Akira]

After only 2 competitive games by Pelegrini even against Newcastle the way he is going to set up our defence will be a worry, teams with poor defences win fcuk all..

The Rags had a piss defence.