Discuss Pellegrini...

[robbieh]

hahahaha

I was responding to Marvin's comments that Pellegrini has had a year to assess his players. These two have been way below their best. But I think that is in part due to the system being asked of them. ie Much less protection. But given this is the manager's preferred style of play then we may need to rethink the defensive personnel. The endless rumours re a goalkeeper suggest he is not that confident in Hart. And while Vincent is a magnificent athlete and sometimes heroic in his last ditch defending, his distribution is often poor and he occasional makes very rash challenges.

Not suggesting we ditch either of them but some serious rethinking on how we defend is needed.

Robbieh you don't have to justify yourself to a WUM, you are spot on.

Kompany was at fault for all 3 goals yesterday. He was clearly not match fit and shouldn't have played.

The problem is that we don't have another centre half who is comfortable playing a high line. That leaves us with 3 options:

1. Play Kompany injured.
2. Play Lescott and Demichelis in a high line, and risk another Watford / Wigan.
3. Play two match fit centre halves and drop the line a bit deeper to accommodate for their lack of pace.

Pellers chose option 1, and as I said Kompany was at fault for all 3 goals. I think choosing option 2 may have been even more of a disaster based on previous games.

A top manager would have picked option 3. Unfortunately the lady's not for changing though, so we're going to have to hope Liverpool slip up and we can win our remaining games against the lesser teams.

Good point. You have to alter the team shape according to A) who you are playing and B) who you have available and fit.

I have know idea whether Kompany was ready to play or not. But for me the biggest problem was when we played Chelsea without Fernandinho. We should have made allowances for that, rather than just put MdM in his place. Disastrous decision making and one that Mourinho fully exploited.

 

[simon23]

I have enjoyed some of the football we have played this season as at times its been as good (not better) as anything Ive seen in previous years since I started watching in the early 80's

My only concern is that MP sticks to one way of playing and never changes it before a game starts and at times this has cost us this season. I understand the philosophy of having a style of play that goes right through the club from the kids to the first team...BUT at times that philosophy needs to be flexible.....

Yesterday was a perfect example. We all knew that with the occasion itself and down to the importance of the game and it being at anfield that liverpool would come out of the box quickly and press us, looking to break quickly and use pace in behind our defensive high line. As a coaching staff they ddint prepare for that to happen and instead we just carried on as normal with our usual game plan (which works most of the time)......in the first 25 minutes we were exposed on a number of occasions the first goal being one case and a deep ball frpom the right into sterling which he side footed past the far post being another point.

The manager and coaches should have instructed city to sit and soak up some pressure for the first hafl pf the first half.......no team can keep up that relentless apce and we then would have been able to impose our selves on the game (which we did do) but from a 0-0 start.....they socred 2 (albeit one from a corner) and had a few other chances and could argueable have been further ahead......

If we have soaked up a bit of pressure, sat a bit deeper for the firrst 20 mins or so and then imposed ourselves the result could have well been very very different.

We need to start adapting our tactics for certain teams........BEFORE the game starts, not when we are already losing. The introduction of Garica (not my fav player by a long shot) helped balance us BUT this was a change that was forced upon MP. The introduction of milner was spot on and MP should be congratualted on that BUT he should have been playing from the start.

He has done ok this season but has shown at times to either be stubborn in his single approach to all games no matter who or (and i dont think its this) tactically nieve...i actually think its just stubborness to play the game his way all the time...hopefully he will learn that he cannt do that all the time....certainly not against fast paced pressing teams unless we adapt our way to play that way ourselvs which woudl mean an overhaul of our midfield and forwards (the likes of yaya (in particualr - and for me he is one of the best players Ive ever seen and no way would i want to lose him), dzeko, mdm are not suited to play that style against much more mobile teams,

As for his future...this season was always going to be a settling in preiod so he deserves slack and next season to show what he can really do......with a bit of luck this season we could still be in with a shout BUT as others have said it should still be in our hands and if he had been tactically more flexible it probably would be.

 

[Marvin]

I was responding to Marvin's comments that Pellegrini has had a year to assess his players. These two have been way below their best. But I think that is in part due to the system being asked of them. ie Much less protection. But given this is the manager's preferred style of play then we may need to rethink the defensive personnel. The endless rumours re a goalkeeper suggest he is not that confident in Hart. And while Vincent is a magnificent athlete and sometimes heroic in his last ditch defending, his distribution is often poor and he occasional makes very rash challenges.

Not suggesting we ditch either of them but some serious rethinking on how we defend is needed.

Robbieh you don't have to justify yourself to a WUM, you are spot on.

Kompany was at fault for all 3 goals yesterday. He was clearly not match fit and shouldn't have played.

The problem is that we don't have another centre half who is comfortable playing a high line. That leaves us with 3 options:

1. Play Kompany injured.
2. Play Lescott and Demichelis in a high line, and risk another Watford / Wigan.
3. Play two match fit centre halves and drop the line a bit deeper to accommodate for their lack of pace.

Pellers chose option 1, and as I said Kompany was at fault for all 3 goals. I think choosing option 2 may have been even more of a disaster based on previous games.

A top manager would have picked option 3. Unfortunately the lady's not for changing though, so we're going to have to hope Liverpool slip up and we can win our remaining games against the lesser teams.

Good point. You have to alter the team shape according to A) who you are playing and B) who you have available and fit.

I have know idea whether Kompany was ready to play or not. But for me the biggest problem was when we played Chelsea without Fernandinho. We should have made allowances for that, rather than just put MdM in his place. Disastrous decision making and one that Mourinho fully exploited.

Easy now to make this judgement call. MP would have had information from the medics and player. And the errors Kompany made were maybe due to his concentration.

Utd played Rooney at Bayern with an injury. It didn't come off.

Had Kompany been 100% we'd have won that game, or drawn it at least. I don't think its fair to criticise Pellegrini for selecting Kompany. How do you know what information he had at the time?

 

[mannycity]

It's hard to take this morning,our expectations are much higher now,rightly so.
Without criticising too much,I mentioned in another thread that Milner should start,what I think we are still paying for, is a poor transfer window of summer 2012,we bought Sinclair,rodwell and Garcia,between them they havent made many starts,two of them are squad members right now,but rarely start.

We do need to find a front footed defender to play alongside Kompany,playing a higher line,a new rb (young) and a lb,an attacking midfielder,a defensive midfielder,and a replacement for dzeko,

We can still win the league,pelle must trust Milner,navas is better at home,Or in latter stages of games,the fact our hardest games are away at palace and everton,then they are or should be a start for Milner,win the next 2 home games and the weekend we play palace away, everything could be different,we must not lose hope,just think back to 2012, ctid

 

[Bluep*ss]

Here is a very good analysis on yesterdays match - tactics used etc....
There’s an interesting analysis from zonalmarking:

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.zonalmarking.net/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.zonalmarking.net/</a>

It seems very astute to me. Too harsh on Vince? Discuss.

 

[onceabluealways]

Why is Jovetic not getting more game time - he has looked sharp and creative when he has played and has very good movement.

I would play him before Dzeko, Negredo ( current form) and nasri ( current form)

No need to risk aguero - what is the point of having a squad if you don't use them

 

[OB1]

Was not aware that Billy had made criticisms.

I'd get a bit suspicious if someone could only view an argument from one angle. That was why I asked

He's made more than me and my views are not one sided. I have stated in the past that I have kept most of my criticism of Pellegrini to myself because I think he has had far too much unfair comment from far too many supporters on here. Also, I think that he has got far more right than he has wrong, in his first season at the club.

I think one very salient point that Billy keeps making is that the decision makers at City chose a direction for the club and saw Pellegrini as the right man to move us in that direction (rather than, say, Mourinho). They did not hire him for his pragmatism.

Maybe not but to win big trophies I'm afraid a touch of pragmatism is needed now and then, it was certainly needed in the first half yesterday when our midfield was being overrun. That doesn't mean being negative, just a little more solidity in the midfield to allow us to get sufficient possession to hurt Liverpool. We all knew they were going to be very intense from the off but they can't maintain that intensity for 90 mins so the pragmatic ploy would have been to see off that first wave and then grow into the game. We managed the latter but only after going 2 goals down.

A touch of pragmatism is needed now and then and Pellegrini has shown a touch, at times. However, he was not brought in to be a pragmatic coach, he we brought in to develop more of a blow them away style of football.

I see a lot of talk about the preparation for this game but when you go and concede an early goal from what I saw as a an fairly aimless punt, the game plan can be quickly forgotten by the players. I think I am correct in stating that goal was the first time in the game that one of their players had the ball in our box.

I do not think our players responded well to going behind early but none of us knows for sure what impact that had on the team's plan; but we can be damn sure that the plan did not include conceding early.

 

[simon23]

Here is a very good analysis on yesterdays match - tactics used etc....
There’s an interesting analysis from zonalmarking:

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.zonalmarking.net/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.zonalmarking.net/</a>

It seems very astute to me. Too harsh on Vince? Discuss.

The article is very good and shows what some people were saying before the game and earlier in the season.....against strong quick fast paced teams we do need to be a bit more pragmatic. The only other solution is an overhaul of our midfield ( and by that I mean finding another way to accomodate yaya) if MP wants to persist in playing the way he does in these crucial top games against top teams who will press us.

-- Mon Apr 14, 2014 12:45 pm --

He's made more than me and my views are not one sided. I have stated in the past that I have kept most of my criticism of Pellegrini to myself because I think he has had far too much unfair comment from far too many supporters on here. Also, I think that he has got far more right than he has wrong, in his first season at the club.

I think one very salient point that Billy keeps making is that the decision makers at City chose a direction for the club and saw Pellegrini as the right man to move us in that direction (rather than, say, Mourinho). They did not hire him for his pragmatism.

Maybe not but to win big trophies I'm afraid a touch of pragmatism is needed now and then, it was certainly needed in the first half yesterday when our midfield was being overrun. That doesn't mean being negative, just a little more solidity in the midfield to allow us to get sufficient possession to hurt Liverpool. We all knew they were going to be very intense from the off but they can't maintain that intensity for 90 mins so the pragmatic ploy would have been to see off that first wave and then grow into the game. We managed the latter but only after going 2 goals down.

A touch of pragmatism is needed now and then and Pellegrini has shown a touch, at times. However, he was not brought in to be a pragmatic coach, he we brought in to develop more of a blow them away style of football.

I see a lot of talk about the preparation for this game but when you go and concede an early goal from what I saw as a an fairly aimless punt, the game plan can be quickly forgotten by the players. I think I am correct in stating that goal was the first time in the game that one of their players had the ball in our box.

I do not think our players responded well to going behind early but none of us knows for sure what impact that had on the team's plan; but we can be damn sure that the plan did not include conceding early.

I understand what you are saying BUT it was clear with the occasion and the importance of the game and from watchign previos liverpoo games that they were going to come out of the blocks flying and relentless ........a moer pragmatic approach to the first half of the first half would have nullyfied that...it may have been the first time they had been in the box but it wasnt the last and it could have been 3-0 before half time had sturidge connected properly with a deep cross inbehind the defense......

Yaya and ferd were out numbered for the first 20 mins or so and we have seen that happen a number of times this season in other games and people have predicted happening before those games as well. If we can see it the manager should be able to see it and therefore his game plan should reflect that and it rarely differs unfortunately

 

[Bill]

He will be given money to spend and expected to win the league next season but if we are adrift at Christmas the axe should fall just as it did with Hughes.

Why would we be adrift at Christmas next season when we're still in the race with 5/6 games to go this season ? Total logic fail there once again from you Rob. Think you need to go for a long walk because you've been systematically at the manager's throat since our first defeat of the season back in September. It's a bit tragic when the guy's already won a trophy and has made such a marked and stark improvement on last season.

There's a bigger picture happening at City also which you're completely missing. The current squad is one which the previous two managers built. Pellegrini will be given the same time and space which Mancini and before him Hughes got. There'll be no knee jerking because Liverpool won yesterday or if we don't win the title. The expectation will be greater next season but nobody involved at the club will be lamenting Pellegrini's appointment. He's exactly what everyone from Sheikh Mansour downwards wanted for City last summer because he is not only stabilising but improving a team that was at the end of last season ready to be broken up because of the amount of dissatisfaction amongst the playing staff.

Improving? Debateable. Both you and I reckoned we should have won last year. We have added players , got rid of a divisive manager. Ergo we should be champions this year. Our performances against our main rivals have been naive.

Point two. You are probably right. But in my defence I want titles now rather than at some point in the future when the whole holistic thing comes together.

its not even debateable. in real terms we've gone backwards. our strong point, the defence, is now a calamity waiting to happen. every game.
but we are all getting on fine now, we can all watch other teams picking up trophies in a venue somewhere whilst patting each other on the back on what a great and friendly season its been.

nothing is better than being happy.

 

[dw7]

Why would we be adrift at Christmas next season when we're still in the race with 5/6 games to go this season ? Total logic fail there once again from you Rob. Think you need to go for a long walk because you've been systematically at the manager's throat since our first defeat of the season back in September. It's a bit tragic when the guy's already won a trophy and has made such a marked and stark improvement on last season.

There's a bigger picture happening at City also which you're completely missing. The current squad is one which the previous two managers built. Pellegrini will be given the same time and space which Mancini and before him Hughes got. There'll be no knee jerking because Liverpool won yesterday or if we don't win the title. The expectation will be greater next season but nobody involved at the club will be lamenting Pellegrini's appointment. He's exactly what everyone from Sheikh Mansour downwards wanted for City last summer because he is not only stabilising but improving a team that was at the end of last season ready to be broken up because of the amount of dissatisfaction amongst the playing staff.

Improving? Debateable. Both you and I reckoned we should have won last year. We have added players , got rid of a divisive manager. Ergo we should be champions this year. Our performances against our main rivals have been naive.

Point two. You are probably right. But in my defence I want titles now rather than at some point in the future when the whole holistic thing comes together.

its not even debateable. in real terms we've gone backwards. our strong point, the defence, is now a calamity waiting to happen. every game.
but we are all getting on fine now, we can all watch other teams picking up trophies in a venue somewhere whilst patting each other on the back on what a great and friendly season its been.

nothing is better than being happy.

We have the happiest assistant kit man in the league though who get a hello every morning makes a huge difference that