Discuss Pellegrini...

[aguero93:20]

It actually appeals to me in some ways. I like us to control matches. Not controlling matches drives me insane.

It also appeals to me.

However,i also appreciate the 'cavalier' approach,perhaps a half way house is the answer?

When Pelle has had his fill...... Uwe Rosler anyone?

Why not. He's doing well in the Championship and reached an Fa Cup Semi Final by beating none other than Pellegrini.

Gus Poyet, Malky Mackay and Paul Lambert all on your shortlist as well?

 

[chris85mcfc]

It actually appeals to me in some ways. I like us to control matches. Not controlling matches drives me insane.

It also appeals to me.

However,i also appreciate the 'cavalier' approach,perhaps a half way house is the answer?

When Pelle has had his fill...... Uwe Rosler anyone?

Why not. He's doing well in the Championship and reached an Fa Cup Semi Final by beating none other than Pellegrini.

If only football was that simple. Or should I say if only everyone was as simple, as you.

 

[mancity111]

i would say there should be more to base it on than just players liking him or not, i have been fully behind him all season and could see a reason or both sides to all things he has done this year until sunday where i started to think maybe it is just because the players are top players we would have won most games anyway, for the first time on sunday i thought he got it seriously wrong and was sure before the game he was going to line up the way i was hoping.
My case was "as long as he learns" but I'm now worried he hasn't or doesn't, just really frustrated at the moment thinking these players won't be around forever Kompany, Silva, YaYa, Kun and i think we could have won the title the last 2 years now without these fuck ups.

My point isn't about players liking him or not. It's about the players respecting him enough to listen and react when he asks things of them. It's an absolutely crucial characteristic the manager of a top team needs to have. Not even Mourinho uses the stick all the time - he constantly feeds his players carrots too to ensure they maintain a healthy amount of respect for him. What i was saying is that for me I have yet to see some glaring weakness in Pellegrini's coaching armoury which makes me think "shit he's not going to be good enough".

In terms of us having top players who "win" games for us - well that's why you buy top players. However they still need to be motivated, coached, and organised in such a manner that they are capable of competing consistently. Nasri for example was anything but a match winner for most of last season, and yet this season was our standout players until his injury.

Discussion about team selection are always IMO wildly subjective. Many people have said that Milner doesn't get enough games and that he should be picked more often especially away from home because that's when he's at his best. Yet against Sunderland away we lost with Milner starting ... and in actual fact we only looked like scoring a goal after Navas came on.

Overall I think the important thing to remember is that we are STILL in the title race. Anyone who thinks the points we've collected so far this season, the position we're in, is not good enough and is a significant underachievement is wrong and this will be born out in the total lack of pressure that will come to bare on the manager from the board. You cannot expect to win everything every year. You can expect to be competitive - and no not in an Arsenal lets win the 4th place trophy kind of way - i mean competitive in taking the title race right to the wire which it looks like we'll do again.

Points well made Billy but again I think you agree the bar will be raised next season and MP will have to improve and learn from his mistakes to meet that level.

I think what you are saying is that he is capable of doing so and more than likely will which is fine.

I am not convinced yet but a top finish to the season will give me some assurance.

I am not sure about the pressure from the board , there is always an element of pressure.

I think a top three finish and progression in his first season has to be considered a pass mark.

I do disagree with those who think we should be home and dry already in the premiership.

A lot has to go your way , injuries , suspensions, form , even the schedule has an impact.

If we finish with 85-88 points ( hopefully 88 points ) no objective City supporter could complain with our first season under MP.

 

[BlueAnorak]

I'd expect that comment from a two bit tabloid hack on the Sunday Supplement if i'm honest.

yeah bit OTT it could be put another way, With an England international striker and a 3 time PL winning defender in the back 4

Of course its OTT. Thats the point. Chelsea have been crying out for striker all season and they let one go who just may help fire Liverpool to the title - hence 'Chelsea reject'. Same with Kolo. Deemed not good enough for us and let go on a free. And where to? Thats right Liverpool in order to help them (possibly) beat us to the title. You have to have a heart of stone not to cry at the irony. The one I forgot was Victor Moses and many thanks to chris85 for pointing it out. It made my day.

The cherry picking a post in an attempt to deflect from the actual points raised re big games has become a predictable tactic closely followed by the "...well you liked Mancini blah, blah" pivot which I guess is one way of not dealing with the issues. I am on record here saying that the League Cup was on my personal bucket list and thank you Mr Pellers. Its purely a personal thing and not shared by everyone but there you go.

I still think we have an excellent chance of winning the league but the points remain:

1) Pellers in game management is too passive.
2) Use of subs is too predictable and seems to be pre planned with no account taken of game momentum.
3) The big games. Our record against our immediate title rivals is poor. Played 6. Won 2. Drawn 1. Lost 3. Games against your immediate rivals in a tight race are crucial given the point swing. At three key points in the season where the title was there for us to take control we failed to do so. Slip up once well ok. Twice is a concern. Three times is fucking criminal. In the CL our 4 big games were Played 4. Won 1. Lost 3. And the one we won was a dead rubber. There is a pattern. There is always a pattern. So far we have dismissed the pattern in favour of 'players making mistakes' and 'bad refs' and yes at Anfield we are playing the ref and will not get some decisions just as Liverpool didn't get some decisions when we played them at home so guess what don't give them a 2 goal fucking head start.

I am not looking for Pellers to go. He won't go anyway and as I said I was made up over winning the League Cup so I am not interested in calling for his sacking even if we don't win the league. But if we do lose the league to Liverpool there will be a few managers including Pellers who will have to take a long hard fucking look at themselves and seriously up their game next season. Furthermore if we do lose out to Liverpool and/or finish 3rd I do not want to hear any more fucking garbage about the vast improvement this season or whining about what a **** Mancini was as a) I already knew he was a ****, b) I didn't care he was **** and c) the **** wouldn't have finished fucking third.

Now all that said this title race is far from over and the thought of the summer with Liverpool as Champions is frankly too awful to contemplate so lets win the next 6 fucking games and make sure it never happens and that we never speak of it again. Ever.

Great post.
The football at home is good to watch though. Which at the end of the day is all I really care about. When you realise that you can take games like Liverpool with a pinch of salt - even though at the time you want to kick a hole in the nearest door when you briefly think about winning serious trophies.

 

[mancity111]

What is this bleeding obsession with last season?

Haha must be eating you up seeing a corner shop out perform Tesco.

Again with the cherry pick and nope. Not in the slightest. I don't have a Pellers obsession as you have with Mancini. I don't mind Pellers. Bit dull but as his primary goal is not to entertain me with his riveting personality I'm a big enough man to let that pass.

Anyway keep on fighting the good fight for Pellers. Pip pip.

It's trophies we should have a healthy obsession for these days.

I know due to the time span between games we drivel on much ado about nothing , me included but who cares who is in charge as long as we are successful.

One thing for sure I do know under this ownership is any manager who doesn't bring home silverware and in Europe no doubt in a fair and reasonable time frame will not have the luxury the likes of Wenger for one has had.

 

[Anonymous]

Points well made Billy but again I think you agree the bar will be raised next season and MP will have to improve and learn from his mistakes to meet that level.

I think what you are saying is that he is capable of doing so and more than likely will which is fine.

I am not convinced yet but a top finish to the season will give me some assurance.

I am not sure about the pressure from the board , there is always an element of pressure.

I think a top three finish and progression in his first season has to be considered a pass mark.

I do disagree with those who think we should be home and dry already in the premiership.

A lot has to go your way , injuries , suspensions, form , even the schedule has an impact.

If we finish with 85-88 points ( hopefully 88 points ) no objective City supporter could complain with our first season under MP.

Can't disagree with 99% of that. The one thing I'd stand by though is that if next season we miss out on the league by one or two points on the last day of the season then there will be no pressure to bare on Pellegrini. We don't have a board of directors who are knee jerk or short sighted, not by a long stretch. Pellegrini's on a 3 year contract and as you say we're already at the point where year 1 is satisfactory at least and could well end up being fantastic. You'd expect improvement on the pitch in year 2, but you cannot expect to win the title because you simply don't know how good the opposition will be. If for example we collect 90 points next season but Chelsea win it with 92 then as disappointing as that would be, it would be absolutely no reason to sack a manager and I don't think our board would ever operate in that manner.

The important thing is to improve season on season - not just by buying better players, but by coaching the ones you have to improve, improving the football you play, the competitiveness you show in each competition etc.

 

[Skashion]

Soriano has told us what the target is for City managers under his tenure:

a) win either the Champions League, Premier League, or FA Cup at a rate of one a season on average.
b) play attractive football doing it.

I think those are fair and realistic aims. It raises some questions though, if we don't win the league this year, and fail to win two of those trophies next season, does Pellegrini get sacked? Or does he then have to win two in his third season? I think if he doesn't win any this season and next, and is still here for his third season, that'll tell us he's placeholding until Guardiola arrives.

 

[BobKowalski]

Soriano has told us what the target is for City managers under his tenure:

a) win either the Champions League, Premier League, or FA Cup at a rate of one a season on average.
b) play attractive football doing it.

I think those are fair and realistic aims. It raises some questions though, if we don't win the league this year, and fail to win two of those trophies next season, does Pellegrini get sacked? Or does he then have to win two in his third season? I think if he doesn't win any this season and next, and is still here for his third season, that'll tell us he's placeholding until Guardiola arrives.

Possible. However I don't see Pep doing the full 3 years at Bayern. Equally I am not entirely convinced that Pep is a certainty for the City job in a years time or 2 years time. Its just a bit too convenient and a lot can happen in 2 years. I would be delighted if Pep did get the gig and sooner rather than later but I'll get excited about that if and when it happens.

Agree on the aims. We have to be winning the top prizes. The role of perpetual bridesmaid isn't in the business plan even if fans like me are delighted with the League Cup. I doubt if Ferran knew that competition existed before he shipped up at City.

 

[aguero93:20]

Soriano has told us what the target is for City managers under his tenure:

a) win either the Champions League, Premier League, or FA Cup at a rate of one a season on average.
b) play attractive football doing it.

I think those are fair and realistic aims. It raises some questions though, if we don't win the league this year, and fail to win two of those trophies next season, does Pellegrini get sacked? Or does he then have to win two in his third season? I think if he doesn't win any this season and next, and is still here for his third season, that'll tell us he's placeholding until Guardiola arrives.

Possible. However I don't see Pep doing the full 3 years at Bayern. Equally I am not entirely convinced that Pep is a certainty for the City job in a years time or 2 years time. Its just a bit too convenient and a lot can happen in 2 years. I would be delighted if Pep did get the gig and sooner rather than later but I'll get excited about that if and when it happens.

Agree on the aims. We have to be winning the top prizes. The role of perpetual bridesmaid isn't in the business plan even if fans like me are delighted with the League Cup. I doubt if Ferran knew that competition existed before he shipped up at City.

It would be a sad indictment of Soriano's footballing knowledge if this was true and somehow I doubt it is.

 

[mancity111]

Points well made Billy but again I think you agree the bar will be raised next season and MP will have to improve and learn from his mistakes to meet that level.

I think what you are saying is that he is capable of doing so and more than likely will which is fine.

I am not convinced yet but a top finish to the season will give me some assurance.

I am not sure about the pressure from the board , there is always an element of pressure.

I think a top three finish and progression in his first season has to be considered a pass mark.

I do disagree with those who think we should be home and dry already in the premiership.

A lot has to go your way , injuries , suspensions, form , even the schedule has an impact.

If we finish with 85-88 points ( hopefully 88 points ) no objective City supporter could complain with our first season under MP.

Can't disagree with 99% of that. The one thing I'd stand by though is that if next season we miss out on the league by one or two points on the last day of the season then there will be no pressure to bare on Pellegrini. We don't have a board of directors who are knee jerk or short sighted, not by a long stretch. Pellegrini's on a 3 year contract and as you say we're already at the point where year 1 is satisfactory at least and could well end up being fantastic. You'd expect improvement on the pitch in year 2, but you cannot expect to win the title because you simply don't know how good the opposition will be. If for example we collect 90 points next season but Chelsea win it with 92 then as disappointing as that would be, it would be absolutely no reason to sack a manager and I don't think our board would ever operate in that manner.

The important thing is to improve season on season - not just by buying better players, but by coaching the ones you have to improve, improving the football you play, the competitiveness you show in each competition etc.

You have summarised in good detail what I mean by setting the bar higher in season two.

It means being competitive for trophies because if you are , you will win your share of them.

It's not inconceivable the title could be won next season by a side who finishes with 82 points for example.

If that was us that would be fantastic even if overall our win loss ratio may be lower than in a season where by we finish say third and that doesn't mean we haven't improved that season even though our points total is lower.

Their are always internal targets and relative targets vis a vis your rivals to meet each season.

MP in his first season albeit still with 6 games to go has met his targets IMO and as such their is no issue baring some unforseen event off the field with him getting a second season in charge.

He is committed to a game style and should be applauded for that.

You can be entertaining and be successful at the same time and the players that buy into that are the ones that will enjoy the fruits of that but again the bar is going to be set higher each year on a number of fronts and MP will have to step up if he is to enjoy as long a tenure as you can expect these days.

Fergie and Arsene are the exception to rule and Wenger would have been long gone at any other club of equal or greater stature long ago.

The days of a manager hanging around for say even 8 years at one club will become a rare event in the future.