Discussion: Manuel Pellegrini 2014/15 (continued)

[Phil1]

I am very suprised that people think Rafa would be a good choice...

WOW

I'd go along with it if we're talking a short term appointment whilst we wait for our main target. Bringing him in as our full time manager wouldn't get me over excited, but a 12 month contract wouldn't be the worse case scenario.

So you would be happy with 12 months of dross?

No, I'm not happy at where we sit right now. That's dross. This season on the whole has been dross. Do I think Benitez could steady the ship defensively and keep us in the top 4 whilst putting in a real challenge for domestic silverware? Yes I do.

 

[PragueBlue]

A lot of the blame surely has to be down to the players mentality, although MP needs to have the balls to drop the players he feels are lacking in this department. Yaya springs to mind because he's already dropped Dzeko and Nasri for this reason.

The reason I've said the above has been evident in the last two games (Palace & Rags), we've started both games well and at the right tempo and pace with plenty of chances but the problem occurs when we concede, our mentality and confidence drains like a sand timer, is that MP's fault, we never used to be like that after conceding a goal?

The mentality issue very much relates to players MP inherited and so in that sense I do not think it is his fault but he is now responsible, in part, for doing something about it and maybe he has not done enough on that score. I think he has been badly let down by the players, who might have let him down whatever he did, but he needed to have been conspicous in doing more. His team have underperformed for most of the season and therefore he is not getting the best out of them.

I'm not so sure that it isn't the other way around.

 

[FanchesterCity]

Fergie used hairdryer regularly. It got him quite a few trophies.

How does the infamous hairdryer treatment fit into these modern management techniques?

"The human beings I've dealt with are far more fragile than the human beings of 30 years ago," Ferguson insisted. "And I say that in a good sense because they're coming from better conditions. I couldn't lose my temper the way I did back then with people nowadays!

"Also, which has become very dominant in the English game is the culture of players from different countries - at United I think there are people from 20 different nationalities and that's a challenge because people from different cultures have to be addressed and you have to make sure that they are comfortable in their environment because it's a results industry and you need to get the best out of them."

-- Alex Ferguson, 2014.

Regarding Van Gaal bollocking Rooney - he probably has. And he's already been sacked because of it, he just doesn't know it yet. Same hadn't at Barca and Bayern too. He lost the dressing room and they eventually got fed up and stopped playing for him which led to him getting the sack. Considering that both clubs went on to far greater success without him than with him then you'd argue that he was holding them back to some degree.

This is a man who caused Rivaldo to leave Barcelona because he's a total bellend, that would be like Pellegrini constantly being a knob to David Silva to the point where he walks out. Rivaldo then went to Milan and immediately won the Champions League.

As our wise CEO once said, who actually dealt with Van Gaal on a personal basis:

‘If you treat your people badly, they remember. One day you make an error and they kill you. I’ve seen this in many clubs. Louis van Gaal has been a very good coach in many clubs but his style is very difficult. The same thing happened to him in Barcelona as in Bayern Munich. He is very tough, people don’t like him, but he wins. And one day you don’t win — and when you don’t win, everybody that is angry with you will come back to you and try to kill you. In the movies this works, in real life it doesn’t.’

When to stop winning, it's your funeral anyway. If you're nice along the way, great, you might have plenty weeping at your demise. If you're an arse, you'll have plenty rejoicing.
You'll still be dead though.

If you can avoid conflict, it's always the way to go. Treating someone badly is more a form of bullying, and that's awful. But bollocking someone needn't be treating them badly. I guess the only person who ever knows the real motive a manager bollocks a player is the manager himself. Perhaps if he's a truly great manager, or just a great person, the receiver might look back on it later and understand it wasn't for any other motive than to improve the player. Sadly, I think plenty of managers have egos just as big as the players, and the types of manager who can bollock 'with love' are few and far between. Many probably lash out because they are the boss and just believe it gives them a divine right.

 

[Lucky Toma]

Let's say that Rafa comes in and does a great job for us. What then?

He's getting some flak on here but he is indisputably a shrewd top class coach. Would he be happy to come in merely as a stop-gap?

 

[OB1]

A lot of the blame surely has to be down to the players mentality, although MP needs to have the balls to drop the players he feels are lacking in this department. Yaya springs to mind because he's already dropped Dzeko and Nasri for this reason.

The reason I've said the above has been evident in the last two games (Palace & Rags), we've started both games well and at the right tempo and pace with plenty of chances but the problem occurs when we concede, our mentality and confidence drains like a sand timer, is that MP's fault, we never used to be like that after conceding a goal?

You're spot on there. Weirdly we always seemed to start slowly, go a goal down and then turn up which was a bit of an Arsenal trait (except that we would turn it around).

Recent two games we've started really well and after the first 10 minutes I thought we would batter them again on Sunday. Instead we conceded once and then crumbled. We couldn't even pass the ball. It's a lack of leadership on the pitch for me. Kompany and Yaya are the two players charged with motivating the team. Kompany spends more time blaming himself or others around him than geeing the team up now. Then he goes off and we've got Yaya to motivate... well do I need to go into that?! Just no presence of mind to get the team together and remind them to play the way the manager wants. To keep the ball and be confident. We started so well and let it slip. Trouble is, which of the remaining players could help motivate the team? No one we've been linked to seems to be in that ilk either... apart from Wilshere! But he is unlikely to spend much time on the pitch knowing his injury record! Hart's a natural leader but we need someone in the midfield to establish a level of control and commitment and lead the side.

I'm sick of reading interviews on the OS from players about how we can still win, we can turn it around, we can still do it... fight to win the game from the first whistle to the last. Wouldn't it be nice for us to lead the way in the league, rather than have to claw it back? Or to play well from the start in the CL and keep it up throughout an entire game?

I'm a huge fan of Yaya and have defended him extensively but his recent performances have disappointed me immensely.

 

[GeorgeHeslop'sTackle.]

If European success is what we're after then we couldn't do a lot better than Benitez, his tactical nous in working towards big matches, particularly in Europe, has been proven to be outstanding. It's his longevity over the course of the season domestically to keep relentlessly picking up points towards the title that would be the worry, but then when has he been in charge of an elite club in recent years to have the chance to demonstrate this anyway?

I often joked that I'd have Benitez as our European manager and Mancini as our PL manager.

Whoever said he'd stifle creativity was correct in my view. I wouldn't want him but I do want someone who sends a team out that looks like it's prepared properly for games and a manager who could make tactical adjustments during the course of the game.

Yesterday, when it was clear we were getting ripped to shreds down our right, he should have moved Milner over there to back up Zab and Navas and nullify the threat. Yet he did nothing and watched it all unravel.

Just how dull were Liverpool under Benitez? He forced Gerrard to play a more attacking role as opposed to the defensive way he played under Houllier, allowed the likes of Luis Garcia to do whatever he wanted, got the best out of the likes of Torres, Alonso etc.

It wasn't all stifling 1-0s

<a class="postlink" href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRrt5FeZWME" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRrt5FeZWME</a>

Amen to that.

Not sure about him as a long term appointment though. He has a pretty volatile temprement & may not be able to 'hold it together' long enough to see us through a successful premier league winning campaign. (Presumably something our owners will, eventually expect him to deliver).

Particularly if and when Mouriniho starts to wind him up.

Blew it big style, after Baconface got under his skin, in the 2008/9 season when Liverpool looked well clear and "nailed on" to win it with not too many games left

That said, even if the Benitez doubters are proved correct in the long run, I'd sell my soul for six dull & 'boring 1-0 wins, right now,

Let's forget all this tippy-tappy sh*t for the moment.... It's time to start "parkin' the f*ckin' bus!!"

 

[Wanchope n me Dickov]

I am concerned what effect our current form will have on season ticket sales next month. We have a 55000 capacity next season and in order to fill it we need to persuade armchair fans to get off their backsides and come to the Etihad. We have struggled to sell out some of the televised fixtures v lower sides this season so there is no way we will sell out next year if we are still playing badly.

This is why I would make a positive change now and get rid of the manager. The new boss should drop some of the under performing players too. Then it's over to Txkiki to pull his finger out during the transfer window, sign some players that excite the fans and re-invigorate the whole club

 

[Phil1]

Let's say that Rafa comes in and does a great job for us. What then?

He's getting some flak on here but he is indisputably a shrewd top class coach. Would he be happy to come in merely as a stop-gap?

I think he would. By all accounts he wants out of Italy. He still has a great affinity to the Northwest and has a house here. I reckon he'd relish the chance of having a quality squad (after the summer spending spree) to challenge for the title. We would offer him a great opportunity to get back in the hunt for trophies, which in turn will add to his already impressive CV. It'd be a win win for him.
Obviously if he isn't happy for that scenario he won't be given the job. I don't see him being anything other as an interim.

 

[Damocles]

When to stop winning, it's your funeral anyway. If you're nice along the way, great, you might have plenty weeping at your demise. If you're an arse, you'll have plenty rejoicing.
You'll still be dead though.

Actually the whole point in context was that if you're not a dickhead to people then when things turn bad, you can always turn them back around because the players respect you and you respect them. When things go bad and you're Van Gaal then you're dead in the water.

If Mancini had Pellegrini's demeanour then he'd still be our manager despite his bad season. If Pellegrini had Mancini's demeanour he'd already have gotten the sack. Also worth noting that the things coming out of our boardroom are that Pellegrini won't be sacked and will be given another chance next year after a full summer behind him.

This feels weird having to explain it to people who think management of people in football is some crazily special environment totally different to management of people elsewhere, but if you want to get the best out of somebody then you have to treat them with respect. People know when they've done well and when they haven't and you banging on about it isn't helping anybody but your own frustrations.

Ferguson pointed out that people have changed and he's right to a degree but also football has become a much more psychologically focused. Even Mourinho doesn't bollock his players in that way and he's probably the best management psychologist out there working today.

It's funny to me that people talk about Pellegrini being a dinosaur because he's playing 4-4-2 and then on the other hand suggesting that he should be jumping around more on the touchline and shouting at people in the dressing room. It shows a very old fashioned and out of date understanding on the game as it is today.

 

[Wanchope n me Dickov]

Let's say that Rafa comes in and does a great job for us. What then?

He's getting some flak on here but he is indisputably a shrewd top class coach. Would he be happy to come in merely as a stop-gap?

I think he would. By all accounts he wants out of Italy. He still has a great affinity to the Northwest and has a house here. I reckon he'd relish the chance of having a quality squad (after the summer spending spree) to challenge for the title. We would offer him a great opportunity to get back in the hunt for trophies, which in turn will add to his already impressive CV. It'd be a win win for him.
Obviously if he isn't happy for that scenario he won't be given the job. I don't see him being anything other as an interim.

So Rafa is interimming? Must admit he does look the type..