Discussion: Manuel Pellegrini 2014/15 (continued)

[flb]

"The human beings I've dealt with are far more fragile than the human beings of 30 years ago," Ferguson insisted. "And I say that in a good sense because they're coming from better conditions. I couldn't lose my temper the way I did back then with people nowadays!

"Also, which has become very dominant in the English game is the culture of players from different countries - at United I think there are people from 20 different nationalities and that's a challenge because people from different cultures have to be addressed and you have to make sure that they are comfortable in their environment because it's a results industry and you need to get the best out of them."

-- Alex Ferguson, 2014.

Regarding Van Gaal bollocking Rooney - he probably has. And he's already been sacked because of it, he just doesn't know it yet. Same hadn't at Barca and Bayern too. He lost the dressing room and they eventually got fed up and stopped playing for him which led to him getting the sack. Considering that both clubs went on to far greater success without him than with him then you'd argue that he was holding them back to some degree.

This is a man who caused Rivaldo to leave Barcelona because he's a total bellend, that would be like Pellegrini constantly being a knob to David Silva to the point where he walks out. Rivaldo then went to Milan and immediately won the Champions League.

As our wise CEO once said, who actually dealt with Van Gaal on a personal basis:

‘If you treat your people badly, they remember. One day you make an error and they kill you. I’ve seen this in many clubs. Louis van Gaal has been a very good coach in many clubs but his style is very difficult. The same thing happened to him in Barcelona as in Bayern Munich. He is very tough, people don’t like him, but he wins. And one day you don’t win — and when you don’t win, everybody that is angry with you will come back to you and try to kill you. In the movies this works, in real life it doesn’t.’

Except that he wins and goes to another top club and wins and goes to another top club and wins....................

Actually after Barcelona nobody would touch him. He went to Ajax where again he was sacked for falling out with key personnel and his only option was to take a job with the fourth best team in the Netherlands. Not exactly Real Madrid. Hell, not exactly Atletico Madrid. He was employed as the manager for the fourth best team in about the sixth best league in the world.

He was able to rebuild some semblance of his reputation there after 4 years and even then he almost left halfway through his reign after finishing midtable and falling out with everybody.

So Bayern took a punt on him after the disastrous experiment of Klinsmann. Where he went and then immediately fell out with everybody and left unceremoniously after 2 years after almost dropping the only team in a one horse league not just out of the title race but out of the race for Europe, saved by a big run at the end of the season.

Then he went and declared that his style wasn't suited to club football so he'd take the Netherlands job where he gets to do the managing and tactics and what have you and almost never actually have to man manage his players. He did pretty well here and I think it's probably his best place in the modern game outside of a return to the Netherlands at a smaller team.

United have the foresight of a child and have no executive leadership at all since Ferguson left, essentially picking the flavour of the month and spunking millions on them rather than considering their worth as part of a long term strategy. So of course they offered Van Gaal and of course he accepted because it gave him a route back in. And of course it is going to end how every single Van Gaal managerial episode ends - the people that he's pissed off are going to implode and get him the sack. I'll give him 12 months before it happens

Thats a delicious post, cheered me up no end fella !

 

[FanchesterCity]

IMO two of our best atmospheres this entire season were vs. Bayern and vs. Barcelona, so I'd disagree. Those matches opened my eyes because they were full of tourists yet there was more noise than most Premier League games, particularly the 'mini-QPR' game against Bayern (the most feel-good moment of the season along with the home derby win).

you need to turn your hearing aids down a bit mate if you think them games were a good atmosphere, The Bayern game woke up when it went 2-2 , apart from that it was average as usual.

The fans got behind the team in both games more than they do even when a Premier League game is 0-0. I stand by what I said because I left both games surprised at how decent the atmospheres were despite so many unfamiliar faces (against Bayern most people walking past me weren't even speaking English). The Roma and CSKA games had poor atmospheres, just like Premier League games.

Yes I can agree it's better than the worst atmospheres of dull league games, but it's not really the earth shattering experience I'd hoped Champion's League would be. It's a money making exercise when all said and done, and the nice music and plastic flags all add a bit of extra hype to things, but all in all, it's probably costing 240 quid for me and my lad to go to a three home CL games.
No thank you Mr Platini, you can stick it where the sun don't shine.

 

[NQCitizen]

There a money guy controlling every club isnt there?!

Pep's views:

Money is bad. Unless a club had it 60 years ago and then it's "history" and it's wonderful.

Stifling a game is bad, Pep's teams should be allowed to roam carefree with all the space in the world. But passing the ball between your 2 centre backs for half an hour is glorious football and definitely not in any way nullifying a football match.

I absolutely loathe this 'history' nonsense. Rochdale have as much history as City. City have as much and Real Madrid. It just so happens some clubs had success in the past, and some didn't.... ups and downs etc.
The success Burnley or Wolves once had doesn't seem to count, as it 'too long ago', and the recent success of City doesn't count either as it's 'bought'.

If Guardiola really thinks the history of a a club is their trophy haul, he's no better then most morons down the pub.
How about doesn't something like Shankly or Clough did and taking a 'normal' club to greatness? Pep's only really had any success at two of the world's largest clubs. That's not really where the history of football lies is it?

Pep's contribution to history could yet be remembered as riding the back of the greatest player ever and taking over at the European champions blunting their effectiveness and losing their crown.

If he doesn't match his Barcelona levels in his next job he could see some of his glory fade.

Luckily he'll take the most overwhelmingly stacked in his favour job he can and will continue to pass all around lesser opposition.

 

[supercity88]

Fergie used hairdryer regularly. It got him quite a few trophies.

How does the infamous hairdryer treatment fit into these modern management techniques?

"The human beings I've dealt with are far more fragile than the human beings of 30 years ago," Ferguson insisted. "And I say that in a good sense because they're coming from better conditions. I couldn't lose my temper the way I did back then with people nowadays!

"Also, which has become very dominant in the English game is the culture of players from different countries - at United I think there are people from 20 different nationalities and that's a challenge because people from different cultures have to be addressed and you have to make sure that they are comfortable in their environment because it's a results industry and you need to get the best out of them."

-- Alex Ferguson, 2014.

Regarding Van Gaal bollocking Rooney - he probably has. And he's already been sacked because of it, he just doesn't know it yet. Same hadn't at Barca and Bayern too. He lost the dressing room and they eventually got fed up and stopped playing for him which led to him getting the sack. Considering that both clubs went on to far greater success without him than with him then you'd argue that he was holding them back to some degree.

This is a man who caused Rivaldo to leave Barcelona because he's a total bellend, that would be like Pellegrini constantly being a knob to David Silva to the point where he walks out. Rivaldo then went to Milan and immediately won the Champions League.

As our wise CEO once said, who actually dealt with Van Gaal on a personal basis:

‘If you treat your people badly, they remember. One day you make an error and they kill you. I’ve seen this in many clubs. Louis van Gaal has been a very good coach in many clubs but his style is very difficult. The same thing happened to him in Barcelona as in Bayern Munich. He is very tough, people don’t like him, but he wins. And one day you don’t win — and when you don’t win, everybody that is angry with you will come back to you and try to kill you. In the movies this works, in real life it doesn’t.’

Except that he wins and goes to another top club and wins and goes to another top club and wins....................

But he won't win anything this season and if you think a team that starts Valencia at right back and has Young and Fellaini as important pieces of its armery will fight to win the league then you're kidding yourself. The trouble he is causing himself is that Di Maria, Falcao etc are seeing that he wants a different type of player and they won't get game time unless they do exactly what he wants. If he starts rubbing players like Rooney the wrong way then he will be in serious trouble and the wheels could fall off.

For me the whole situation has been too polarised. I'm not talking about Pellegrini putting players over his knee, I'm talking about him being ruthless with the side he picks. If a player performs poorly consistently then drop them. The issue we have is not that the 4-4-2 is suddenly the most flawed tactic in football, it's that the personnel being picked are not implementing it. Pellegrini therefore has to pick players that will perform it how he wants them to. Or change the system until he has the players he wants...

We know that he will stick to his tactics and implement players, not the other way around because we saw it last season. When it clicked we were brilliant. The idea was for this season to be the same but with an improved squad to play a different style against the likes of Barca, Bayern etc.

Now we need to see him drop those consistent poor performers. Play the ones he wants to keep here next season and bring in the players he wants in the summer.

The reason I think Pellegrini should go is because I don't think the 4-2-2-2 or whatever you want to call it... is the way we should be playing. I don't think it will take us to the level we need. If we buy the right players perhaps he can convince me otherwise but with our side we should be moving to a 4-2-3-1 as plan A and getting the best out of players like Silva, Fernandinho and Aguero who are some of the best in their positions in the world.

 

[FanchesterCity]

"The human beings I've dealt with are far more fragile than the human beings of 30 years ago," Ferguson insisted. "And I say that in a good sense because they're coming from better conditions. I couldn't lose my temper the way I did back then with people nowadays!

"Also, which has become very dominant in the English game is the culture of players from different countries - at United I think there are people from 20 different nationalities and that's a challenge because people from different cultures have to be addressed and you have to make sure that they are comfortable in their environment because it's a results industry and you need to get the best out of them."

-- Alex Ferguson, 2014.

Regarding Van Gaal bollocking Rooney - he probably has. And he's already been sacked because of it, he just doesn't know it yet. Same hadn't at Barca and Bayern too. He lost the dressing room and they eventually got fed up and stopped playing for him which led to him getting the sack. Considering that both clubs went on to far greater success without him than with him then you'd argue that he was holding them back to some degree.

This is a man who caused Rivaldo to leave Barcelona because he's a total bellend, that would be like Pellegrini constantly being a knob to David Silva to the point where he walks out. Rivaldo then went to Milan and immediately won the Champions League.

As our wise CEO once said, who actually dealt with Van Gaal on a personal basis:

‘If you treat your people badly, they remember. One day you make an error and they kill you. I’ve seen this in many clubs. Louis van Gaal has been a very good coach in many clubs but his style is very difficult. The same thing happened to him in Barcelona as in Bayern Munich. He is very tough, people don’t like him, but he wins. And one day you don’t win — and when you don’t win, everybody that is angry with you will come back to you and try to kill you. In the movies this works, in real life it doesn’t.’

Except that he wins and goes to another top club and wins and goes to another top club and wins....................

Actually after Barcelona nobody would touch him. He went to Ajax where again he was sacked for falling out with key personnel and his only option was to take a job with the fourth best team in the Netherlands. Not exactly Real Madrid. Hell, not exactly Atletico Madrid. He was employed as the manager for the fourth best team in about the sixth best league in the world.

He was able to rebuild some semblance of his reputation there after 4 years and even then he almost left halfway through his reign after finishing midtable and falling out with everybody.

So Bayern took a punt on him after the disastrous experiment of Klinsmann. Where he went and then immediately fell out with everybody and left unceremoniously after 2 years after almost dropping the only team in a one horse league not just out of the title race but out of the race for Europe, saved by a big run at the end of the season.

Then he went and declared that his style wasn't suited to club football so he'd take the Netherlands job where he gets to do the managing and tactics and what have you and almost never actually have to man manage his players. He did pretty well here and I think it's probably his best place in the modern game outside of a return to the Netherlands at a smaller team.

United have the foresight of a child and have no executive leadership at all since Ferguson left, essentially picking the flavour of the month and spunking millions on them rather than considering their worth as part of a long term strategy. So of course they offered Van Gaal and of course he accepted because it gave him a route back in. And of course it is going to end how every single Van Gaal managerial episode ends - the people that he's pissed off are going to implode and get him the sack. I'll give him 12 months before it happens

He'll be still be there end of next season.
And I've no problem with having to sack him for winding up a bunch of trophy winners. It's a better alternative than sacking a manager for upsetting a bunch of non trophy winning mard-arses!

 

[scotty123]

Pep's views:

Money is bad. Unless a club had it 60 years ago and then it's "history" and it's wonderful.

Stifling a game is bad, Pep's teams should be allowed to roam carefree with all the space in the world. But passing the ball between your 2 centre backs for half an hour is glorious football and definitely not in any way nullifying a football match.

I absolutely loathe this 'history' nonsense. Rochdale have as much history as City. City have as much and Real Madrid. It just so happens some clubs had success in the past, and some didn't.... ups and downs etc.
The success Burnley or Wolves once had doesn't seem to count, as it 'too long ago', and the recent success of City doesn't count either as it's 'bought'.

If Guardiola really thinks the history of a a club is their trophy haul, he's no better then most morons down the pub.
How about doesn't something like Shankly or Clough did and taking a 'normal' club to greatness? Pep's only really had any success at two of the world's largest clubs. That's not really where the history of football lies is it?

Pep's contribution to history could yet be remembered as riding the back of the greatest player ever and taking over at the European champions blunting their effectiveness and losing their crown.

If he doesn't match his Barcelona levels in his next job he could see some of his glory fade.

Luckily he'll take the most overwhelmingly stacked in his favour job he can and will continue to pass all around lesser opposition.

I posted something similar earlier in the thread, the guy is a glory hunter, he will end up at the rags he is one of their camp followers, I just can't work out some Blues obsession with the bloke, forget him he ain't coming and I for one don't even want him

 

[FanchesterCity]

"The human beings I've dealt with are far more fragile than the human beings of 30 years ago," Ferguson insisted. "And I say that in a good sense because they're coming from better conditions. I couldn't lose my temper the way I did back then with people nowadays!

"Also, which has become very dominant in the English game is the culture of players from different countries - at United I think there are people from 20 different nationalities and that's a challenge because people from different cultures have to be addressed and you have to make sure that they are comfortable in their environment because it's a results industry and you need to get the best out of them."

-- Alex Ferguson, 2014.

Regarding Van Gaal bollocking Rooney - he probably has. And he's already been sacked because of it, he just doesn't know it yet. Same hadn't at Barca and Bayern too. He lost the dressing room and they eventually got fed up and stopped playing for him which led to him getting the sack. Considering that both clubs went on to far greater success without him than with him then you'd argue that he was holding them back to some degree.

This is a man who caused Rivaldo to leave Barcelona because he's a total bellend, that would be like Pellegrini constantly being a knob to David Silva to the point where he walks out. Rivaldo then went to Milan and immediately won the Champions League.

As our wise CEO once said, who actually dealt with Van Gaal on a personal basis:

‘If you treat your people badly, they remember. One day you make an error and they kill you. I’ve seen this in many clubs. Louis van Gaal has been a very good coach in many clubs but his style is very difficult. The same thing happened to him in Barcelona as in Bayern Munich. He is very tough, people don’t like him, but he wins. And one day you don’t win — and when you don’t win, everybody that is angry with you will come back to you and try to kill you. In the movies this works, in real life it doesn’t.’

Except that he wins and goes to another top club and wins and goes to another top club and wins....................

But he won't win anything this season and if you think a team that starts Valencia at right back and has Young and Fellaini as important pieces of its armery will fight to win the league then you're kidding yourself. The trouble he is causing himself is that Di Maria, Falcao etc are seeing that he wants a different type of player and they won't get game time unless they do exactly what he wants. If he starts rubbing players like Rooney the wrong way then he will be in serious trouble and the wheels could fall off.

For me the whole situation has been too polarised. I'm not talking about Pellegrini putting players over his knee, I'm talking about him being ruthless with the side he picks. If a player performs poorly consistently then drop them. The issue we have is not that the 4-4-2 is suddenly the most flawed tactic in football, it's that the personnel being picked are not implementing it. Pellegrini therefore has to pick players that will perform it how he wants them to. Or change the system until he has the players he wants...

We know that he will stick to his tactics and implement players, not the other way around because we saw it last season. When it clicked we were brilliant. The idea was for this season to be the same but with an improved squad to play a different style against the likes of Barca, Bayern etc.

Now we need to see him drop those consistent poor performers. Play the ones he wants to keep here next season and bring in the players he wants in the summer.

The reason I think Pellegrini should go is because I don't think the 4-2-2-2 or whatever you want to call it... is the way we should be playing. I don't think it will take us to the level we need. If we buy the right players perhaps he can convince me otherwise but with our side we should be moving to a 4-2-3-1 as plan A and getting the best out of players like Silva, Fernandinho and Aguero who are some of the best in their positions in the world.

I sort of agree.... but we're supposed to have two players for every position to create competition, yet sometimes it feels like we're choosing the lesser of too evils! (dzeko or injured jovetic?, Kolarov or Clichy? Yaya or Fernando?). If we dropped our poor performers, we'd struggle to make a starting XI.

In theory, we should be able to drop Dzeko, and have Bony, or Jovetic come in, firing in goals.... the moment they slip up, back comes a fired up Dzeko to win his place back.
But the way it looks at the moment, nobody's arsed if they're dropped or not!

 

[FanchesterCity]

I absolutely loathe this 'history' nonsense. Rochdale have as much history as City. City have as much and Real Madrid. It just so happens some clubs had success in the past, and some didn't.... ups and downs etc.
The success Burnley or Wolves once had doesn't seem to count, as it 'too long ago', and the recent success of City doesn't count either as it's 'bought'.

If Guardiola really thinks the history of a a club is their trophy haul, he's no better then most morons down the pub.
How about doesn't something like Shankly or Clough did and taking a 'normal' club to greatness? Pep's only really had any success at two of the world's largest clubs. That's not really where the history of football lies is it?

Pep's contribution to history could yet be remembered as riding the back of the greatest player ever and taking over at the European champions blunting their effectiveness and losing their crown.

If he doesn't match his Barcelona levels in his next job he could see some of his glory fade.

Luckily he'll take the most overwhelmingly stacked in his favour job he can and will continue to pass all around lesser opposition.

I posted something similar earlier in the thread, the guy is a glory hunter, he will end up at the rags he is one of their camp followers, I just can't work out some Blues obsession with the bloke, forget him he ain't coming and I for one don't even want him

It's very unclear precisely how much of Barca's dominance was actually down to him. Some believe a lot, some believe very little. But either way, Barca's still a very high rung to start out on. I can't see he's a charlatan or anything, that would be silly, but I see no real evidence of him having to actually climb mountains for success.
The sad thing is, with today's footballer mentality, if the players believe in his 'voodoo aura' they might actually perform for him. It's the emperor's new clothes!

 

[Damocles]

Except that he wins and goes to another top club and wins and goes to another top club and wins....................

Actually after Barcelona nobody would touch him. He went to Ajax where again he was sacked for falling out with key personnel and his only option was to take a job with the fourth best team in the Netherlands. Not exactly Real Madrid. Hell, not exactly Atletico Madrid. He was employed as the manager for the fourth best team in about the sixth best league in the world.

He was able to rebuild some semblance of his reputation there after 4 years and even then he almost left halfway through his reign after finishing midtable and falling out with everybody.

So Bayern took a punt on him after the disastrous experiment of Klinsmann. Where he went and then immediately fell out with everybody and left unceremoniously after 2 years after almost dropping the only team in a one horse league not just out of the title race but out of the race for Europe, saved by a big run at the end of the season.

Then he went and declared that his style wasn't suited to club football so he'd take the Netherlands job where he gets to do the managing and tactics and what have you and almost never actually have to man manage his players. He did pretty well here and I think it's probably his best place in the modern game outside of a return to the Netherlands at a smaller team.

United have the foresight of a child and have no executive leadership at all since Ferguson left, essentially picking the flavour of the month and spunking millions on them rather than considering their worth as part of a long term strategy. So of course they offered Van Gaal and of course he accepted because it gave him a route back in. And of course it is going to end how every single Van Gaal managerial episode ends - the people that he's pissed off are going to implode and get him the sack. I'll give him 12 months before it happens

He'll be still be there end of next season.
And I've no problem with having to sack him for winding up a bunch of trophy winners. It's a better alternative than sacking a manager for upsetting a bunch of non trophy winning mard-arses!

What exactly have United won this year or within a decent shout to win?

Basically United are in the same position as City. Neither of us have won anything. But their team has spent a huge amount of cash and their manager is a year closer to exploding

 

[cityisblue]

Wow...If comedy was ever needed then this thread is pure Gold !.

Man City will be an exremely fortunate team to have Rafa Benitez guiding them through a period of legacy building.

The Guy is a "Caricature" in the Media, because he does not bow donw to their whims, or does briefing, or believes in any PR, or likes to be onside with the Media.

He does not speak to the Sun, has sent legal letters to talk sport and fat boy Danny Kelly, has fallen out with Sky Sports and there pundits, by rectifying their wrong assessments, such as " Zonal Marking", Substitutions, Rotation, use of 4-2-3-1, Gerrard not a CM, disagreemenst with Ferguson, Mourinho, and that created the negatitive attiutudes of Dciks like Henry Wanker, Patrick Barclay and the other Fleet Street members.

you know the most common of tactics, and squad usage that people are using without any questions in 2015, but it was a major bone of contention for the Likes of Richard Keys, Andy Gray, and Shitty Redknapp, football experts without having any expertise.

The Xenophobic attiutude of mainstream media towrds Rafa is the reason behind his Public Profile being ridiculously Bad, but he does not Public Relations like Rodgers, Mourinho, Ferguson, Allardyce, Bruce and the rest to correct his wrong image, he just lets results speak for them selves, at the most limited of clubs, Valencia, Liverpool, Inter Milan ( 0 Investment, Mourinho spent all Moratti's money on buying over aged players with no resale value, where are Inter Milan now ?) but still won 2 trophies lost 1 trophy, qualified out of the group stages quicker than mourinho and had 2 games in hand before departure and arguement Chelsea Joined December alraedy out of Champions League hated by all Chelsea fans every game ( imagine your workplace in that condition) "0" investment, 50 games in 6 months , average 2 PPG, Europa League win, WC runner up, Semi Fianlists in LC , and FA Cup. Napoli, Annual Revenue less than Swansea, spent Cavani Money on Higuain, Callejon, Mertens, 78 points last year the biggest in history, Italian Cup winner, Italian Super Coppa Winner, can achieve the Europa League, and finish second of third with and club made a net profit of £20 million in the summer just gone, so how do you become title winner in that budget , shopping at LIDL, while Juventus, AC Milan, Inter, and even Roma are at Waitrose !

Just to sum up Rafa Benitez to Man City , well the guy has 13 trophies to his name since 2001 , with a 2 season break in the middle, while Losing another European Cup final, 2 WC final, , League cup final, UEFA Super cup final, Spanish coppa final, the main protagonist for the "now fashionable and common " 4-2-3-1 system, with high pressing, , 2 X World manager of the year, ...and soon to be the darling of all Blue Moon, ..it will only take 10 games before his name is sung .in admiration...you be really lucky if its him !