Discussion: Manuel Pellegrini 2014/15 (continued)

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The-Dogs-Pollocks said:
blueparrot said:
The-Dogs-Pollocks said:
he will obviously have some input, but he wont be the person who comes up with the ideas or strategy
Well they are branding the Aguero moment with the 93.20 blocks and using it around the cfa

Again i woild doubt that would have been soriano's idea, there will be a marketing team with people at various levels who will then get an ad agency to pitch for the mcfc tender, in fact they will have a roster of approved agencies. The marketing ideas will be formulated by a combination of the agencies and internal marketing team.
That's pretty much spot on I'd imagine.

It's odd from my perspective as I think in marketing terms City are very good at every touch point but there's no cohesive message or value behind it.

City needs to find its "Just do it", "Think Different", "The Power of Dreams". It seems abstract for a club, but then there's 'Mes Que Une Club', the 'Theatre of Dreams' etc.

We Are Cityzens was dreadful.
 
Sergi0 Na5r1 said:
The-Dogs-Pollocks said:
cookster said:
I don't think there are that many problems. Slight change in tactics, remove a couple of bad eggs, Yaya and the Balkan boys, replace with younger hungry players.

Less than 2 months ago we were only 5 points behind Chelsea.

Agreed, the same players won the league and a cup just a season ago, they haven't all forgotten how to play, they need a kick up the arse and a manager who can organise them on the pitch. Hopefully someone who will stick around for a while and build something, I will be disappointed if we end up with another stopgap.

Klopp fits this role. Even Pep we can't count on long term, he'll be off in a few years after he wins something.

Two season and Klopp will be out (that's the way we roll).
 
cookster said:
Ray78 said:
cookster said:
I'm not that pessimistic.

Add Klopp and 4 first team players of top quality and we will challenge.

I call it being realistic. No manager is going to wave the magic wand and make all our problems disappear.

I don't think there are that many problems. Slight change in tactics, remove a couple of bad eggs, Yaya and the Balkan boys, replace with younger hungry players.

Less than 2 months ago we were only 5 points behind Chelsea.
The more we cling to this list of a 'lazy players' the further we get from actually realising Zabaleta has been below par, Kompany has been dreadful and Silva has only 5 assists (not denying his goal tally is good, but his playmaking has been lost), Fernando has been below expectations, Milner has offered very little, Nasri has been inconsistent (although perhaps doesn't get the recognition he deserves) and while it's early days Bony hasnt hit the ground running - the likes of Nastasic and Jovetic? Who even knows.

Imo we have bigger issues than a 32 yo midfielder, a back up left back and a third choice striker.
 
NQCitizen said:
The-Dogs-Pollocks said:
blueparrot said:
Well they are branding the Aguero moment with the 93.20 blocks and using it around the cfa

Again i woild doubt that would have been soriano's idea, there will be a marketing team with people at various levels who will then get an ad agency to pitch for the mcfc tender, in fact they will have a roster of approved agencies. The marketing ideas will be formulated by a combination of the agencies and internal marketing team.
That's pretty much spot on I'd imagine.

It's odd from my perspective as I think in marketing terms City are very good at every touch point but there's no cohesive message or value behind it.

City needs to find its "Just do it", "Think Different", "The Power of Dreams". It seems abstract for a club, but then there's 'Mes Que Une Club', the 'Theatre of Dreams' etc.

We Are Cityzens was dreadful.

Yep, I think they should build on the fact that we are different from the other 'super clubs' instead of trying to follow suit and become part of the establishment.

The fact that we have a rich history, not of European trophies, but of struggles and strife, excruciating lows, massive highs, undying loyalty and passion in adversity.

That sets us apart from the rest and should be celebrated, not shunned. It would also give us a crucial point of difference in the market as well as ringing true with our fanbase, celebrating the true meaning of being a blue.
 
Wasn't our gimmick handed to us on a plate... "We'll fight til the end (Aguerooooooooo!)". Except seasons 12/13 and 14/15 have basically put paid to that, no matter how much it is sung or repeated, and so we still struggle with the 'lazy mercenaries' stigma.

Anyway, what Mourinho does is make his players despise losing and mentally strong. What they have done this season is what I've wanted to see from City - consistency throughout the season (one little wobble but it wasn't too damaging), limiting the stupid defeats/draws against underdogs, and cruising to the title.

We need a world class manager who forces players to respect (and fear a little) him and the club, while also having a good relationship with most. Pep or Ancelotti would do just fine for me.
 
LoveCity said:
Wasn't our gimmick handed to us on a plate... "We'll fight til the end (Aguerooooooooo!)". Except seasons 12/13 and 14/15 have basically put paid to that, no matter how much it is sung or repeated, and so we still struggle with the 'lazy mercenaries' stigma.

Anyway, what Mourinho does is make his players despise losing and mentally strong. What they have done this season is what I've wanted to see from City - consistency throughout the season (one little wobble but it wasn't too damaging), limiting the stupid defeats/draws against underdogs, and cruising to the title.

We need a world class manager who forces players to respect (and fear a little) him and the club, while also having a good relationship with most. Pep or Ancelotti would do just fine for me.


I want Pep at City but our obsession with him is a little too much for me, how do we know he will choose City next summer?

Ancelotti I respect immensely but I am not convinced he is the man for us at this moment in time considering we need a significant rebuild, plus I don't think Txiki would want him as he doesn't fit his vision.

Personally I think it's nailed on Pellegrini gets another season but I would like to see us get Klopp.
 
Again, for completely different reasons.

You can't generalise like that without looking at the specific contributing factors which have led to a despirited and demotivated team.
First time out, that was pretty clear. The first year was an accident waiting to happen from the upper management point of view. This year isn't so obvious, probably tactics and/or system, but it would be nice to know one day.

Does anyone really think these players say "OK, we have won it, now we don't need to try so hard"?




Ray78 said:
cookster said:
Ray78 said:
I call it being realistic. No manager is going to wave the magic wand and make all our problems disappear.

I don't think there are that many problems. Slight change in tactics, remove a couple of bad eggs, Yaya and the Balkan boys, replace with younger hungry players.

Less than 2 months ago we were only 5 points behind Chelsea.

It's more to it than a couple of tactical tweaks. The team's collective mentality is wrong (hence two poor attempts of defending the title).
 
Damocles said:
We can never be the behemoth without that acceptance. It's why Chelsea have still fell behind in a business and footballing sense over a decade after their takeover.

Our business model depends on our ability to attract new fans and give them something to emotionally hang their hat on in terms of "who Man City are", in the way that United, Arsenal and Liverpool have but Chelsea don't.

United fans rightly or wrongly could describe in great detail who United are as a club and if you got 100 fans to do this then 75% of them would be "on message" regarding Munich/the Busby Babes to the European Cup comeback, Alex Ferguson and Fergies Fledglings, constant youth development, the Stretford End and Best, Charlton and Law, etc. Arsenal fans would talk about Chapman's revolutions and then Wenger's revolutions on how he singlehandedly modernised the English game, how Arsenal play the best football and are single-minded in how they go about their business. Liverpool will talk about Shankly, the boot-room, Istanbul, Gerrard and Carragher and Owen and the rest of them.

My point is that each of these clubs have a mythos behind them that ties into their brand identity. Of course much of it is complete bollocks but that isn't important to the Beijing Massive who will watch Sky TV and listen to how these are "great clubs, different from any other". This obviously drives their revenue - not only because fans feel that certain traits that the club holds but also that advertisers will see that people associate these clubs with that trait and will want to cross-market themselves with them.

Chelsea have consistently struggled for revenue because they don't have this. They have the stink of new money, the image of oil baron running things, a suspect Russian in charge, no standardised way of playing football and a bunch of racist fans.

Again, this is obviously bollocks that doesn't take into account the great things that they have done but my point is that their brand image out in the wider world is not a positive one.

Our image is less vitriolic than Chelseas, and people tend to hate us less because of the local investments made and the fact that we don't really have many dislikeable players in our team. We do have the new money problem and we do have the oil baron problem and the FFP sanctions were extremely bad for us image wise, but outside of that we're doing better than Chelsea were in trying to pull back the stink of investment. With NYCFC and Melbourne we are creating new fans of the brand in the longer term - many of the NYCFC lot absolutely hate us now but these are the first responders/glory-hunting tossers who will be weeded out in the long run and their fanbase will become more sensible over time to see the shared relationship.

You talk of success and the need for it but I'd argue that in the modern global game, success alone isn't enough to build your business on top of and use not only Chelsea but many of the Italian clubs and the differences between Wolfsburg/Dortmund in Germany. We don't compete REALLY with the Evertons of the world in terms of building new sponsor relations and gaining a fanbase; we compete with Barca, Bayern, Real, United, Liverpool, Milan, Juve, Arsenal and Chelsea. They all have success as well so we're no different in that regard - what we're trying to do here is to create a "Man City Way".

To be honest, the Man City Way is basically what was always Typical City. But since the Swales Era the "brand" of our club has always been one of spectacular fuck ups with the opposite that people also claim to be part of the charm not being common enough. That's who we are to many outsiders and it's who we are to many City fans. We were essentially the bumbling but loveable sidekick of English football.

That isn't however who Abu Dhabi wants us to be. They as you point out want us to be liked and respected, rather than liked and patronised or respected but feared. They understand that this will help them achieve the goals that they have when buying the club and it will help us grow as a brand in the new battlegrounds of European football - the US, Africa and India. They want City to have a positive attitude in the minds of other people and unfortunately some sacrifices do need to be made around this idea, like not going and telling UEFA to fuck themselves and spending £500m.

We can talk on and on and on about the relative merits and faults with these ideas, but it's essentially fruitless as we'll conduct our business like that no matter what. We're not City's target audience any more, they already have us hooked. They are now arsed about the Chinese teenager shopping in their local sports shop and to get them to buy City's shirt, so that we have the revenues to compete with the biggest clubs in the world. Distasteful or not, it is the commercial realities of football in a UEFA driven world.

1. It's a really interesting post but I take exception to you stating Chelsea is struggling for revenues(bolded above). If revenues were to be stacked I would say Chelsea is exactly around where you'd expect them to be. We weren't gonna be ahead of United and we weren't gonna be lower than who is 4th which means we'll probably have the 2nd/3rd highest commercial revenue ( I believe City is second?). Speaking of fans , United claimed to have 659m fans while Chelsea at time of announcing new sponsorship claimed to have 500m. Alongside, Chelsea had the most broadcast hours of any PL team last season, even more so than the title winner or title challeneger. So once again I don't really observe any struggle as much. My personal view is that our commercial operations were stagnant for a long while since Roman never felt the need to build find sources of revenue apart from his pocket. FFP has made us scramble to get commercial operations into the next gear though. Either way I mentioned this in an another thread as well that commercial operations if allowed to grow organically don't grow exponentially as some expect. Teams such as United/Bayern/Real set the benchmarks in terms of the max for a deal. Clubs below can hope to get parity with numbers or negotiate lower deals in proportion.

2. You do raise a very fair point which is unique to the PL. Fans overseas identify with success first and foremost or a great player they watch and grow to support is team by extension. Unless you believe that 500m haven't identified 'something' with Chelsea , that theory doesn't hold up. However what if success isn't guaranteed? Would the fan still support a team with the odd chance of success or probably support Real/Bayern/Barcelona ? Moreso assuming a fan supports a PL team and theoretically there are 3-4 teams of equal chances of winning then what is the next factor influencing their decision in the team they support? Play style,manager,player preference,brand... and here is where you have a very fair point that success isn't sufficient BUT your assumption that it is only play style or brand which would attract a new fan is pre-mature.

3. An interesting discussion that followed regarding likeability from local fans depends on number of players contributed to the English Squad. I think this aspect is looked over by many especially foreign fans because they cannot attach the sensitivity to it. It is the very reason Arsenal and Liverpool are looked upon fondly despite not being a competitive threat in ages. I'm certain if Millwall contributed 2 players from their ranks towards the national team the tune in the media would shift as "How Milwall overcame obstacles.." or "Millwall following path of Southhampton". It's true that Chelsea missed a trick there but I doubt there is hope unless a manager sticks for more than 5 years. If every manager is trying to survive until next season , his last concern is to bed a 19yr old kid because by the time the kid shines he might not around to reap the rewards. It is therefore not surprising that teams with *stability* at the helm have produced more national players because those managers can and are willing to take risks knowing well that their position is safe.
 
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