Discussion: Manuel Pellegrini 2014/15 (continued)

[kenzie115]

We had a 14 game unbeaten run between november to january catching up chelsea at the same time im wondering if some on here slating Pellegrini now were then??

i certainly don't blame Pellegrini for me injuries/form/lack in quality strength in depth had a major impact for the rest of the season.

he deserves to see out the last year for me anyway.

Unfortunately you've got things the wrong way round, the injuries were actually the reason we had the good run. When he's had a full squad to choose from we've been woefully inconsistent or just plain awful.

 

[@BluePhil8]

Friendlies are NOT opportunities. In fact they are the worst way in the entire world to blood young players.

The reason they need first team football is because the Premier League is in a totally different class to the U21 and they don't know the requirements of speed of decision making and physical strength required to compete to which we they can start developing from. They don't know this because they've been consistently ignored by our manager for a variety of shit reasons that idiots parrot in some amazingly strange form of "trust".

You lot trust the manager to have given the players minutes if they were good enough. The problem though, is that this is completely blind trust with nothing at all to actually back it up. You think he'll do the right thing, despite many, many examples of him doing the opposite, because you WANT him to.

Pellegrini brought through Isco at Malaga.

Mancini brought through Balotelli at Inter.

Any decent manager will play young players if they think that they are good enough. If they don't they won't.

We are an elite club these days. Players are sent out on loan to gain experience. If they are good enough they come back.
If they aren't they are either sold or released. The vast majority won't make it as first team regulars.

"Holistic" was just a bollocks term to justify sacking Mancini after he lost the power struggle. His inability to work with
the first team was far more his downfall than not picking kids. Who were these kids anyway? It's only now some are starting to
emerge. If Pellegrini remains next season and doesn't for example use Iheanacho as part of his squad then and only then can
you complain. The Youth Cup Final showed that most of our kids are just that. I'll be critical of Pellegrini when its appropriate
but this isn't. You'll be demanding quotas next ...

Our first team squad (officially) includes Richard Wright, Scott Sinclair, Dedryck Boyata, John Guidetti and obviously Fernando.

So I'm pretty much in with a chance there.

If Jeremie Boga makes a debut on Sunday he'll follow Baker, Swift, Kalas, Christensen, Solanke, RLC and Brown in doing so in JM's 2nd spell.

Pellers used Pozo out of position and Emyr Huws for 10 minutes in a League Cup game when 4-0 up. That is his record for debuts. He also gave Lopes a start in a League Cup game where he got Man of the Match, played him the next game where he had a bad game and he has never played ever since then. That was in the game when Negredo hurt his shoulder.

Mourinho was supposed to be the guy we didn't appoint because he was bad for our Academy unlike the holistic Pellegrini.

He isn't a City manager, he should go and go on Monday

Couldn't have said it better.

The whole idea of having the training complex and youth stadium outside the Etihad was to give the Youth Squad something tangible to aim for.

Instead of putting faith in Lopes, Denayer, Rekik, Guidetti, Pozo we've persisted with Lampard (34), Dzeko (4 league goals), Jovetic (5 league goals), Sinclair and Boyata in the squad.

If you are an up and coming talent in the EDS you're going to think "fuck this club, no one will ever get a chance in the first team."

 

[grim up north]

Pellegrini brought through Isco at Malaga.

Mancini brought through Balotelli at Inter.

Any decent manager will play young players if they think that they are good enough. If they don't they won't.

We are an elite club these days. Players are sent out on loan to gain experience. If they are good enough they come back.
If they aren't they are either sold or released. The vast majority won't make it as first team regulars.

"Holistic" was just a bollocks term to justify sacking Mancini after he lost the power struggle. His inability to work with
the first team was far more his downfall than not picking kids. Who were these kids anyway? It's only now some are starting to
emerge. If Pellegrini remains next season and doesn't for example use Iheanacho as part of his squad then and only then can
you complain. The Youth Cup Final showed that most of our kids are just that. I'll be critical of Pellegrini when its appropriate
but this isn't. You'll be demanding quotas next ...

Our first team squad (officially) includes Richard Wright, Scott Sinclair, Dedryck Boyata, John Guidetti and obviously Fernando.

So I'm pretty much in with a chance there.

If Jeremie Boga makes a debut on Sunday he'll follow Baker, Swift, Kalas, Christensen, Solanke, RLC and Brown in doing so in JM's 2nd spell.

Pellers used Pozo out of position and Emyr Huws for 10 minutes in a League Cup game when 4-0 up. That is his record for debuts. He also gave Lopes a start in a League Cup game where he got Man of the Match, played him the next game where he had a bad game and he has never played ever since then. That was in the game when Negredo hurt his shoulder.

Mourinho was supposed to be the guy we didn't appoint because he was bad for our Academy unlike the holistic Pellegrini.

He isn't a City manager, he should go and go on Monday

Couldn't have said it better.

The whole idea of having the training complex and youth stadium outside the Etihad was to give the Youth Squad something tangible to aim for.

Instead of putting faith in Lopes, Denayer, Rekik, Guidetti, Pozo we've persisted with Lampard (34), Dzeko (4 league goals), Jovetic (5 league goals), Sinclair and Boyata in the squad.

If you are an up and coming talent in the EDS you're going to think "fuck this club, no one will ever get a chance in the first team."

Or the vast majority have their heads screwed on and at 17/18 years old think their time will come soon enough if they are good enough

 

[Damanino]

Youth players cant expect to get game time if you have a squad with nearly two international/experienced players for all 11 positions. Thats 22 players out of a 25 man squad.

We dont want to take risks with them. Do we risk having 4 CBs next season one of them being Rekik or Denayer? Or do we replace Boyata with a 10-20-30m CB (potentially an experienced/international player who is a big upgrade on Boyata)?

Same with all other positions, if we sell Kolarov who we bring in, if we sell Zab who we bring in, f we sell Nasri we want Sterling/De Bruyne, and they would feel pretty stupid if they dont get maximum game time because of a youth player here.

Do we replace Jovetic/Dzeko with another 20-30m strikers, like Negredo-->Bony, or do we trust one of our younger ones?

Imo we will know the chances of youth players when we see the final squad for next season.

 

[Damocles]

Or the vast majority have their heads screwed on and at 17/18 years old think their time will come soon enough if they are good enough

99% of people who watch the EDS regularly say this is a major problem at City.

99% of those who have never seen them play regularly say it isn't.

The vast majority have absolutely no idea how good Celina is, nor the flavour of the month from the non-EDS watchers in Barker. They're like Singapore fans - absolutely convinced of their opinions of players who they've seen about 3 times.

 

[halfcenturyup]

Pellers used Pozo out of position and Emyr Huws for 10 minutes in a League Cup game when 4-0 up. That is his record for debuts. He also gave Lopes a start in a League Cup game where he got Man of the Match, played him the next game where he had a bad game and he has never played ever since then. That was in the game when Negredo hurt his shoulder.

Mourinho was supposed to be the guy we didn't appoint because he was bad for our Academy unlike the holistic Pellegrini.

He isn't a City manager, he should go and go on Monday

Mourinho didn't get the gig because he'd pissed us about previously which meant he was a no no with Mansour and Khaldoon.
Txiki said he was impressed by Mourinho when he interviewed him at Barcelona. He just thought Pep was a better fit.

Holistic is just a word. For all you know Txiki has advised Pellegrini that most of the youth players aren't ready yet.
Khaldoon has said our aim is to win all 4 competitions that we play in. To have a chance in all competitions we normally have
two top players for each position. Only if and when a youth player is deemed to be at that level will he get an extended run.
For that reason most of our better prospects are out on loan. Iheanacho is the exception to that rule. He might well be the
real deal.

Pellegrini should go on Monday if we can get an upgrade. Pep, Ancelotti and Klopp are upgrades. Rafa is probably at the
same level. If we can't get an upgrade (and I'm sure we can) then he should stay and be given a contract extension to end
all speculation. I'm not his biggest fan but to say he isn't a "City manager" is just being silly. He's not Frank Clark or Alan Ball.

Obviously you have the inside information that I don't.

But either way "holistic" isn't just a word, it's a concept which Soriano, Begiristain and from his speaking elsewhere, Sheikh Mansour firmly believe in and how they run their businesses.

And the idea that a player will EVER come out of ANY Academy and be good enough to walk into our side is hilarious

Just out of interest, where has the good Sheikh spoken about how he runs his businesses and, in particular, used the word "holistic"? Honest question. I would be interested to hear what he has to say. I am a little sceptical, though. Holistic just sounds like consultancy-speak to me.

 

[aguero93:20]

Mourinho didn't get the gig because he'd pissed us about previously which meant he was a no no with Mansour and Khaldoon.
Txiki said he was impressed by Mourinho when he interviewed him at Barcelona. He just thought Pep was a better fit.

Holistic is just a word. For all you know Txiki has advised Pellegrini that most of the youth players aren't ready yet.
Khaldoon has said our aim is to win all 4 competitions that we play in. To have a chance in all competitions we normally have
two top players for each position. Only if and when a youth player is deemed to be at that level will he get an extended run.
For that reason most of our better prospects are out on loan. Iheanacho is the exception to that rule. He might well be the
real deal.

Pellegrini should go on Monday if we can get an upgrade. Pep, Ancelotti and Klopp are upgrades. Rafa is probably at the
same level. If we can't get an upgrade (and I'm sure we can) then he should stay and be given a contract extension to end
all speculation. I'm not his biggest fan but to say he isn't a "City manager" is just being silly. He's not Frank Clark or Alan Ball.

Obviously you have the inside information that I don't.

But either way "holistic" isn't just a word, it's a concept which Soriano, Begiristain and from his speaking elsewhere, Sheikh Mansour firmly believe in and how they run their businesses.

And the idea that a player will EVER come out of ANY Academy and be good enough to walk into our side is hilarious

Just out of interest, where has the good Sheikh spoken about how he runs his businesses and, in particular, used the word "holistic"? Honest question. I would be interested to hear what he has to say. I am a little sceptical, though. Holistic just sounds like consultancy-speak to me.

10 pages or so back on this thread.

 

[halfcenturyup]

Just out of interest, where has the good Sheikh spoken about how he runs his businesses and, in particular, used the word "holistic"? Honest question. I would be interested to hear what he has to say. I am a little sceptical, though. Holistic just sounds like consultancy-speak to me.

10 pages or so back on this thread.

He has commented on this thread? Wow.

Joking. I'll go look now. Thanks.

 

[Wilf Wild 1937]

And the idea that a player will EVER come out of ANY Academy and be good enough to walk into our side is hilarious

Glad you agree with me that it's going to be a very, very rare occurrence, hence the fact we loan players out.

Never say never. Messi would have. Iheanacho may.

So when City spoke of a 50% Academy graduate squad by 2030, did you presume that these would all be world class £30m players?

It's an aspiration. A "stretch goal" to use management speak.

When Khaldoon said we aim to win every competition we enter going forward he didn't add any caveats about playing youth players.
Khaldoon was talking about here and now not about a target 15 years hence.

Youth is important hence the investment in the Academy but it's long term investment and only one factor in making an elite club.
Ajax probably still have a better academy system than Real Madrid but Real's financial clout trumps them 99 times out of 100.
Success on the field is key to everything. We pick players on merit not on quotas or any other such nonsense.

 

[halfcenturyup]

Just out of interest, where has the good Sheikh spoken about how he runs his businesses and, in particular, used the word "holistic"? Honest question. I would be interested to hear what he has to say. I am a little sceptical, though. Holistic just sounds like consultancy-speak to me.

10 pages or so back on this thread.

He has commented on this thread? Wow.

Joking. I'll go look now. Thanks.

Mehh. Couldn't find it, but it doesn't matter.

Another question, though. We have Begiristain who is responsible for all football matters. We have Pellegrini under him who is responsible for the first team squad, and Vieira who is responsible for the youth, presumably also under Begiristain. Is it Pellegrini's job to determine when to play youth in the first team? Isn't it Begiristain's job to provide new first teamers (bought and Academy)? So if there arent any, maybe its Begiristain who thinks they aren't ready?