Discussion: Manuel Pellegrini 2014/15 (continued)

[PragueBlue]

So I assume the favoured theory/scenario on here currently is that we are keeping Pellers on for another year with Pep in 2016?

Pellegrini staying seems the most likely scenario for next season to me. What happens beyond there is anyone's guess but people seem to be assuming that as Guardiola's contract finishes at the same time as Pellegrini's, that he would be the obvious choice. Though if Klopp and Ancelotti are both taking time out, there could be a reasonable choice (and maybe even the great John Carver might be available by then).

 

[Damocles]

The players currently at the club and not on loan have demonstrated in the Youth Cup and U21 derby a few weeks ago, amongst other occassions, that they're not ready to step up to the first team yet. The arguments of those on loan is one thing, and we'll not really know either way who's right..

How?

They beat Chelsea at home and were 30 seconds away from a draw at Stamford Bridge in the league until Solanke got a stuffy late goal with the last kick of the game, featuring players who have played in the PL this season. They twatted United in the Derby the other day who are the league champions and feature players who played in the PL, won every single game in their Champions League by absolutely stomping Bayern, Roma and CSKA and were only beaten because the ref sent 2 of our players off against a team we put 8 past in the groups, and won the International Cup.

We've had two high profile games recently and lost them both so now people think our U21 team is shit. Us and Chelsea are the two best youth teams in the country at every age level.

 

[PragueBlue]

No I understand that, and didn't know he'd that little game time over there (better than Zuculini in Spain, which has been a complete waste of time), but the other two have had far more game time, and that will be of bigger benefit.

I think that was mainly due to him being injured for a fair part of the season, rather than a wasted loan.

 

[PragueBlue]

The players currently at the club and not on loan have demonstrated in the Youth Cup and U21 derby a few weeks ago, amongst other occassions, that they're not ready to step up to the first team yet. The arguments of those on loan is one thing, and we'll not really know either way who's right..

How?

They beat Chelsea at home and were 30 seconds away from a draw at Stamford Bridge in the league until Solanke got a stuffy late goal with the last kick of the game, featuring players who have played in the PL this season. They twatted United in the Derby the other day who are the league champions and feature players who played in the PL, won every single game in their Champions League by absolutely stomping Bayern, Roma and CSKA and were only beaten because the ref sent 2 of our players off against a team we put 8 past in the groups, and won the International Cup.

We've had two high profile games recently and lost them both so now people think our U21 team is shit. Us and Chelsea are the two best youth teams in the country at every age level.

And how many Chelsea youth players got 10-15 games in the first team? Or for that matter of any prem team in the top half of the table.

 

[BobKowalski]

So I assume the favoured theory/scenario on here currently is that we are keeping Pellers on for another year with Pep in 2016?

I don't have a problem with that as it looks like the club sat down with him and the players a month or so back and identified two things that needed to be done. A change of tactics to more flexibility by Pelle and certain players who seemed unable/unwilling to play to their best under Pelle not playing as much.

The result - whilst not an unqualified success - has been a big improvement on what now looks like a blip earlier this year. That seems enough to justify Pelle getting another chance on the assumption that their only apparent real choice for a successor is not coming until June 2016 at the earliest.

My only slight concern is that Bayern could sit by and let the Summer go and then announce a new three year deal for Pep just as or after the next season starts - maximum point of impact against us - and so immediately putting pressure on City and Pelle.

With the inevitable media reaction that City will have to limp on after being 'snubbed' etc etc and how we may even have lost other opportunities to relaunch the project based on the absolute conviction Pep would not sign a new deal.

On the other hand Pelle is a decent manager and with the right squad and any possible agitators gone he could win things in 2015-16 making people ask if we even need Pep at all.

So I can see why we have taken this decision if that is what we have done. It is not the horrendous gamble the media will likely try to make out it will be. Whereas had we sacked Pelle we would have been accused of dumping on a good man in a hasty reaction.

Therefore we do what is best for us and sod the inevitable hate press.

Fair enough. My own view is that Pellers will go in this summer and we will appoint a manager. Who that is remains to be seen. All this waiting for the stars to align and Neptune to rise in the House of Aquarius in 2016 is too far fetched for my tastes. Simple is best.

But whatever happens its going to be fun :)

 

[JoeMercer'sWay]

The players currently at the club and not on loan have demonstrated in the Youth Cup and U21 derby a few weeks ago, amongst other occassions, that they're not ready to step up to the first team yet. The arguments of those on loan is one thing, and we'll not really know either way who's right..

How?

They beat Chelsea at home and were 30 seconds away from a draw at Stamford Bridge in the league until Solanke got a stuffy late goal with the last kick of the game, featuring players who have played in the PL this season. They twatted United in the Derby the other day who are the league champions and feature players who played in the PL, won every single game in their Champions League by absolutely stomping Bayern, Roma and CSKA and were only beaten because the ref sent 2 of our players off against a team we put 8 past in the groups, and won the International Cup.

We've had two high profile games recently and lost them both so now people think our U21 team is shit. Us and Chelsea are the two best youth teams in the country at every age level.

because, from my own observations, having watched them, they're not physically and mentally developed yet for me to believe they can have a meaningful impact on first team games.

I've had the overwhelming sense of largely very good for their level, and with the core technical ability being strong I think a number could develop into good first team players, but they mostly need at least one more year at EDS, and I think strong loans elsewhere will develop the tools necessary for them in a couple of years time to come back and really give it a shot and step up.

You seem to insinuate I don't understand the success they've had at that level, I do, but it's at that level. I don't think any of them are ready yet for our first-team.

 

[Wilf Wild 1937]

Again, you just sound like someone who has a very low opinion of everyone from Khaldoon downwards. .

What is it with you guys? Where have I ever knocked Khaldoon?

What a meaningless comment "you just sound like" is. "You just sound like" and then I'll write a load of bollocks about you.

As for comments made to the press, FFS , Pellegrini denied he was joining City the week before he joined.

I suppose the most logical question here then would be what would change your opinion that Soriano and Txiki aren't actually here as agent provocateur but instead are here because they think they have a good job?

You really can't help yourself can you?

Nothing would change my opinion because that isn't my opinion. I've not stated either of them are "agent provocateur"
because I don't believe either of them are.

I've said IMO Soriano is probably the best CEO in football.

I've said Txiki isn't that great IMO.

I've said both of them will do their best for the club while they are here but we can't guarantee that will be for a long time.
City is obviously a good job for any player, manager or executive. We're an elite club.

Stop putting words in my mouth.

You on the other hand have stated that Pellegrini is working against the best interests of the club.

 

[taconinja]

Altering the course of the discussion for a moment...

Does anyone else think this is the most important summer period we've had since the takeover? I certainly do. This is the second time that a title defense has been very underwhelming, and I think that we're somewhat disjointed on the pitch. We've won two titles, and I'm not saying that either manager had nothing to do with it because they did, but a lot of what happened seemed to be highly-motivated, elite players overwhelming the opposition with their talent. We've just never been as cohesive as we should be and that's reflected in our European ventures in the Champions League.

So we come to this summer where we have several factors:

• A manager entering the last year before likely transitioning to another manager.
  
  You might think this is a minor thing but Pellegrini seems to have a very different philosophy from Guardiola. If we're employing Pellegrini for another year, will he be content to mold the team for his successor, or will he refuse to bend tactically until his back is completely against the wall, which is what he did this season?
  
  
• Aging players plus players who either don't fit the vision of the manager or the vision of the club at a strategic level.
  
  I love our players, but quite a few of them seem to sparkle in vastly different styles of play from each other. Fortunately, they're extremely talented individuals who can make it work, but is there anyone convinced that we can name a starting eleven sans the youth since they seem to have no chance at first-team play who fit together into a cohesive whole that can not only challenge Real Madrid or Barcelona et al. on a consistent level?
  
  
• Incoming transfer targets and youth policy is a subject that must be addressed.
  
  This is a bit murky for me. Is our academy a profit factory where we hope to occasionally find a gem, or is it going to be the primary focus with talent supplemented via transfers? If it's the former, okay. I can live with that although I don't prefer it. If it's the latter, they seem to be coached towards a very different tactical plan than the current manager prefers. Does that mean we tread water for a year and just hope for a trophy? Or do we go out and buy superstars that will fit Pellegrini's vision while delaying the youth already at the club?

The fact we have so many questions... or at least I have so many questions as others may see this as a clear situation with clear answers... makes this the most important transition summer we've had. Thoughts?

Note: I realize that some of this isn't strictly to do with the manager, but he's the lynch pin as far as making all this work.

 

[halfcenturyup]

Altering the course of the discussion for a moment...

Does anyone else think this is the most important summer period we've had since the takeover? I certainly do. This is the second time that a title defense has been very underwhelming, and I think that we're somewhat disjointed on the pitch. We've won two titles, and I'm not saying that either manager had nothing to do with it because they did, but a lot of what happened seemed to be highly-motivated, elite players overwhelming the opposition with their talent. We've just never been as cohesive as we should be and that's reflected in our European ventures in the Champions League.

So we come to this summer where we have several factors:

• A manager entering the last year before likely transitioning to another manager.
  
  You might think this is a minor thing but Pellegrini seems to have a very different philosophy from Guardiola. If we're employing Pellegrini for another year, will he be content to mold the team for his successor, or will he refuse to bend tactically until his back is completely against the wall, which is what he did this season?
  
  
• Aging players plus players who either don't fit the vision of the manager or the vision of the club at a strategic level.
  
  I love our players, but quite a few of them seem to sparkle in vastly different styles of play from each other. Fortunately, they're extremely talented individuals who can make it work, but is there anyone convinced that we can name a starting eleven sans the youth since they seem to have no chance at first-team play who fit together into a cohesive whole that can not only challenge Real Madrid or Barcelona et al. on a consistent level?
  
  
• Incoming transfer targets and youth policy is a subject that must be addressed.
  
  This is a bit murky for me. Is our academy a profit factory where we hope to occasionally find a gem, or is it going to be the primary focus with talent supplemented via transfers? If it's the former, okay. I can live with that although I don't prefer it. If it's the latter, they seem to be coached towards a very different tactical plan than the current manager prefers. Does that mean we tread water for a year and just hope for a trophy? Or do we go out and buy superstars that will fit Pellegrini's vision while delaying the youth already at the club?

The fact we have so many questions... or at least I have so many questions as others may see this as a clear situation with clear answers... makes this the most important transition summer we've had. Thoughts?

Note: I realize that some of this isn't strictly to do with the manager, but he's the lynch pin as far as making all this work.

Are you ruling out Pellegrini extending his contract this summer and actually seeing it through?

 

[baildon blue]

I wonder how motivated Pellergrini will be going into next season .
With only 1 year left on his contract .
Will Pellergrini leave this summer before he goes next year .
It's all big ?????