Discussion: Manuel Pellegrini (2014/15)

[cibaman]

He has suicide tactics that belong in the Alf Ramsey age, however we don't have any defensive midfield players on the books worthwhile, Fernandinho is box to box, so this could be his excuse to be kept on.

If only. Sir Alf was tactically very underated. Just look at the way he finessed England's tactics during the 1966 World Cup, campaign. Developing the 4-1-3-2 that best suited the players, bringing in relative unknowns such as Peters and Hurst in place of more established players.

He became a bit set in his ways later on, too loyal to the 66 players. But he was an extremely innovative manager for most of his career.

 

[Damanino]

He wants a 4222 system so much but the players dont put in nowhere near enough hard work off the ball. Whose mistake is it? If it would be only one playerI would say its players mistake, but its multiple ones regularly that can keep their place no matter what as they are big stars in the team...

This turns our formation into a very awkward, way to open system that puts so much pressure on defenders who have their own problems given their struggling in high line and I dont think they are so intelligent defenders anyway. Or especially any great with passing it out from the back. There is a reason why Kompany, LEscott etc looked all so good under Mancini but way worse under Pelle...

Of course lack of protection front of them that comes again from the system/lack of workrate from other players have a very bad effect on defenders.

I hardly saw anything from Pelle to change this. Very few times went for 451 but if you still dont put in the workrate needed you will be left with problems again.

Our problems more like tactical(discipline)+mentality problems that simply question of formation. But you still need the best formation to get results after all, even if you have to adapt to such a crazy thing that 4-5 players usually dont work hard when we dont have the ball. This season we just wont get away with that and we hardly ever got away with that in CL in 4 years. (and wont even in next 4 years.)

 

[mastermind]

He wants a 4222 system)

What's a 4222 system ? You are not making any sense.

There's no such thing as a 4222 system.

It's a formation not a system.

The formation we currently use is no different to what Mancini used.

What has changed is tactics.

 

[cibaman]

He wants a 4222 system so much but the players dont put in nowhere near enough hard work off the ball. Whose mistake is it? If it would be only one playerI would say its players mistake, but its multiple ones regularly that can keep their place no matter what as they are big stars in the team...

This turns our formation into a very awkward, way to open system that puts so much pressure on defenders who have their own problems given their struggling in high line and I dont think they are so intelligent defenders anyway. Or especially any great with passing it out from the back. There is a reason why Kompany, LEscott etc looked all so good under Mancini but way worse under Pelle...

Of course lack of protection front of them that comes again from the system/lack of workrate from other players have a very bad effect on defenders.

I hardly saw anything from Pelle to change this. Very few times went for 451 but if you still dont put in the workrate needed you will be left with problems again.

Our problems more like tactical(discipline)+mentality problems that simply question of formation. But you still need the best formation to get results after all, even if you have to adapt to such a crazy thing that 4-5 players usually dont work hard when we dont have the ball. This season we just wont get away with that and we hardly ever got away with that in CL in 4 years. (and wont even in next 4 years.)

The 4222 must have had its day. Its been sussed out now, every team we play against know that they can exploit the spaces that are left when Silva and Nasri drift inside.

The starting point surely has to be for the manager and players to buy in to the concept of tactical fexibility. To rid the club of the culture that "we will play our way", a luxury which only the very best teams in the world can afford. To accept that, unless we are prepared to modify our style of play, at least a little, when we travel Liverpool and Burnley we're not suddenly going to turn in a tactical masterclass when thrust into the Nou Camp.

 

[Damanino]

He wants a 4222 system)

What's a 4222 system ? You are not making any sense.

There's no such thing as a 4222 system.

It's a formation not a system.

The formation we currently use is no different to what Mancini used.

What has changed is tactics.

4222 is Pelle's system. Traditional 442 is about two fast line wingers that are all about pace and crossing. Pelle's Villarreal and also City system most of the time uses Silva/Nasri type of players that are very far from a traditional winger role. They keep the ball instead of cross, they come inside instead of hugging touchline and cross.

For this reason you need extremely lot of support from attacking fullbacks to provide any width when Silva/Nasri tends to come inside. But what if you lose the ball? You haveFernandinho, Yaya, Silva, Nasri all mostly in advanced incentrally role and also one of the fullbacks too. Also strikers...

You dont press as we dont press well at all, and there you go your defence is ran at by fast players and it all looks a mess. Happened so many times this season even against mediocre teams.

For this system to work you need a very good team effort in workrate, mostly with constant pressing or at least with the ability of tracking back a lot. Not 2 times a game, but a lot...

A traditional 442 was maybe what we had with Bellamy-De Jong-Barry-SWP midfield. Two in the middle working very hard, maybe hardly joining attacks, two wingers provide lot of pace that can also finish chances and score or cross well. Its not about posession at all and short passes.

Pelle's one completely different. NAvas provides some width to when he plays but his end product is very far from world class.

But whatever the formation really, the workrate some of our players put in off the ball would get punished no matter what formation we use.

 

[Exeter Blue I am here]

Having seen that team sheet today, he's either taking the piss or mentally ill

 

[OB1]

Having seen that team sheet today, he's either taking the piss or mentally ill

LOL

 

[baildon blue]

Having seen that team sheet today, he's either taking the piss or mentally ill

I think I'm mentally ill .
Anyway big game for Manuel and the team today .
A rare day when I'm not at the Etihad .
Can't say I'm missing it .
I'm exhausted and need a rest from live football .

 

[blueinsa]

Having seen that team sheet today, he's either taking the piss or mentally ill

Exeter you are better than that post mate.

That side is more than good enough to win this game.

 

[Exeter Blue I am here]

Having seen that team sheet today, he's either taking the piss or mentally ill

Exeter you are better than that post mate.

That side is more than good enough to win this game.

Let's see. Of all the players at the club, that central midfield pairing would have been my absolute last choice