Mister Appointment said:GaudinoMotors said:Ferguson, Wenger, Shankly, Clough, Trapattoni aren't/weren't shrinking violets either. I don't think having a manager with touch or arrogance and self belief is a bad thing (Mourinho's antics I draw the line at). Let's face it, everyone sees the achievements at Dortmund as Klopp's. I imagine Klopp is every bit as shrewd and Machiavellian as all the aforementioned. In the short term achievements are inevitably attributed to the manager - they're appointed to bring success, however their achievements will forever belong to the club's roll of honour.
It depends upon your point of view and mine is quite different from yours. I don't really care that much about winning big trophies ever year. Don't get me wrong, I love the challenge and of course I want us to win as many titles as possible. But not at any cost. I'll take a Wenger type manager with less trophies over a decade than the likes of Mourinho or Mancini - and Pep albeit to a lesser degree because he's less of a twat than the other two i've just mentioned.
The point is it isn't life and death for me. The winning things part. How we do it is just as important as if we do it.
GaudinoMotors said:Mister Appointment said:NQCitizen said:It'd be interesting to see what some of Mancini's harshest critics make of it (without any dig - I'd be interested to hear Mister Appointment's take, genuinely)
Even Mancini never really came close to publicly humiliating a staff member who'd been there 40 years. Was good enough to win a CL right before Peps arrival. Now the whole medical team has resigned which is a bit unprecedented and surely is a pretty monumental catastrophe created by Pep.
I think most of the people on the forum who know me well know that I've never been all in on the idea of Pep managing us. I don't particularly like his character. He's far too close to managers like Mancini and Mourinho in that wherever they go and whatever they achieve, those achievements are their achievements rather than the clubs'. There's a cult of personality which follows them around which isn't necessarily healthy.
People will say that Klopp is similar, but I would respectfully disagree. Klopp has the character of the perennial outsider. He's aggressive yes, and he's media gold. But he lacks the machiavellian dark side which the three I've mentioned above definitely have.
I know I get accused of being a fanboy because I actually respect and trust the people running our club so this will no doubt be ignored as it doesn't fit the narrative - but if Txiki passes on Klopp to wait a year for Guardiola, even if that means bringing Ancelotti in, that would in my mind be a terrible decision. Not because it means waiting for Pep, but because it means passing on IMO a much better suited manager for City to wait for his mate.
Ferguson, Wenger, Shankly, Clough, Trapattoni aren't/weren't shrinking violets either. I don't think having a manager with touch or arrogance and self belief is a bad thing (Mourinho's antics I draw the line at). Let's face it, everyone sees the achievements at Dortmund as Klopp's. I imagine Klopp is every bit as shrewd and Machiavellian as all the aforementioned. In the short term achievements are inevitably attributed to the manager - they're appointed to bring success, however their achievements will forever belong to the club's roll of honour.
GaudinoMotors said:Mister Appointment said:GaudinoMotors said:Ferguson, Wenger, Shankly, Clough, Trapattoni aren't/weren't shrinking violets either. I don't think having a manager with touch or arrogance and self belief is a bad thing (Mourinho's antics I draw the line at). Let's face it, everyone sees the achievements at Dortmund as Klopp's. I imagine Klopp is every bit as shrewd and Machiavellian as all the aforementioned. In the short term achievements are inevitably attributed to the manager - they're appointed to bring success, however their achievements will forever belong to the club's roll of honour.
It depends upon your point of view and mine is quite different from yours. I don't really care that much about winning big trophies ever year. Don't get me wrong, I love the challenge and of course I want us to win as many titles as possible. But not at any cost. I'll take a Wenger type manager with less trophies over a decade than the likes of Mourinho or Mancini - and Pep albeit to a lesser degree because he's less of a twat than the other two i've just mentioned.
The point is it isn't life and death for me. The winning things part. How we do it is just as important as if we do it.
Not life or death for me either - just some attractive progressive football from a motivated team would do right now. I was responding to the comments you made about achievement being theirs rather than the Club's. If the manager gets credit then well done to him.
Couldn't agree more re Mourinho though. I don't think Mancini and Pep to close to how distasteful he is.
The cookie monster said:What an utter c**t
[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLKBvDyY1hw[/video]
Medical staff I think. Heat of the moment stuff? Surely not pre-plannedStephenhakin said:The cookie monster said:What an utter c**t
[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLKBvDyY1hw[/video]
Who is this he is clapping to? His backroom staff?
Club doctor of 30+ yearsStephenhakin said:The cookie monster said:What an utter c**t
[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLKBvDyY1hw[/video]
Who is this he is clapping to? His backroom staff?
Marvin said:Medical staff I think. Heat of the moment stuff? Surely not pre-plannedStephenhakin said:The cookie monster said:What an utter c**t
[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLKBvDyY1hw[/video]
Who is this he is clapping to? His backroom staff?
Marvin said:Medical staff I think. Heat of the moment stuff? Surely not pre-plannedStephenhakin said:The cookie monster said:What an utter c**t
[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLKBvDyY1hw[/video]
Who is this he is clapping to? His backroom staff?
TrueBlueMike said:GaudinoMotors said:Mister Appointment said:I think most of the people on the forum who know me well know that I've never been all in on the idea of Pep managing us. I don't particularly like his character. He's far too close to managers like Mancini and Mourinho in that wherever they go and whatever they achieve, those achievements are their achievements rather than the clubs'. There's a cult of personality which follows them around which isn't necessarily healthy.
People will say that Klopp is similar, but I would respectfully disagree. Klopp has the character of the perennial outsider. He's aggressive yes, and he's media gold. But he lacks the machiavellian dark side which the three I've mentioned above definitely have.
I know I get accused of being a fanboy because I actually respect and trust the people running our club so this will no doubt be ignored as it doesn't fit the narrative - but if Txiki passes on Klopp to wait a year for Guardiola, even if that means bringing Ancelotti in, that would in my mind be a terrible decision. Not because it means waiting for Pep, but because it means passing on IMO a much better suited manager for City to wait for his mate.
Ferguson, Wenger, Shankly, Clough, Trapattoni aren't/weren't shrinking violets either. I don't think having a manager with touch or arrogance and self belief is a bad thing (Mourinho's antics I draw the line at). Let's face it, everyone sees the achievements at Dortmund as Klopp's. I imagine Klopp is every bit as shrewd and Machiavellian as all the aforementioned. In the short term achievements are inevitably attributed to the manager - they're appointed to bring success, however their achievements will forever belong to the club's roll of honour.
I think that is the general perception of most people - but not of the man himself. He openly said in his Press conference, when he doesnt feel he is the best fit for the club he would step down, so the club didnt live off its past success. That speaks volumes for the man - who is interested in the Club, as opposed to his own personal accolades. (Not to say he doesnt enjoy doing)
The likes of Mancini - he won the league for us for the first time in 44 years, nearly 3 years ago - and yet 2 months ago he is still claiming its his team playing, and so everything since is down to him. (Quite possibly true - but shows his interest is in what he can say he did - not what the club achieved)
They played together for 5 years?The cookie monster said:Club doctor of 30+ yearsStephenhakin said:The cookie monster said:What an utter c**t
[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLKBvDyY1hw[/video]
Who is this he is clapping to? His backroom staff?
Lets hope cheeky takes notice of what a bellend this guy is when things dont go his way...