Discussion: Potential Pellegrini Replacements {merged}

[OB1]

Re: Discussion: Potential Pellegrini Replacements

If two successive managers have lost the dressing room coincidentally in the season after they win a league title, then we should be looking at the players. they're the constant here. we've already switched managers and the same thing has happened again.

And if it was clear for all to see then these threads would be much shorter

This remains very much my point of view and I am not making excuses for Pellegrini (I think he has faults and by no means does he do everything the way I would prefer) but there is no excusing the sort of display the players gave against Burnley with any ot the manager's actions. I could give a stuff if, for example, Silva's best position is not wide left: he has played there often enough, he gets license to drift anyway, he is supposed to be a top top player, it's a team game and you cannot always play in your preferred role.... When you go out on that pitch with a City shirt on, the first thing that is expected of you is to put in a shift that at least matches your opponents; no excuses, none, nada.

Do people really believe that players take the field with the intention of playing badly? To not try? To not control straight forward passes? To miss chances? To not defend properly? If there is a disconnect between manager and team it tends to manifest itself in poor performance and this happens at all levels and in all sports.

It's not about intending to play badly. Even below par, they dominated the game against Burnley but what they did not do is put in the extra effort to make sure that they won the game. They lacked intensity and it is inexcusable; even if they are not happy with the manager's tactics etc. The thing is, do we actually know how the players feel about the manager's tactics? If they are unhappy with something, have they taken it up with him and if they have, why hasn't he changed? I've hard often enough that he is too soft so surely he doesn't lay the law down with the players?

 

[aguero93:20]

Re: Discussion: Potential Pellegrini Replacements

Graham Hunter on talkshite just now, I don't think the board at City are looking to replace Pellegrini but if they do the man to come in has not been even mentioned in the English media yet
My mate has heard it's Conte of Juve and he does get quite a few things right

Conte and Rudi Garcia should both be considered IMO.

Conte yes. Rudi Garcia no, he's a confidence manager with no idea how to turn results round when things start to go against him, the French Harry Redknapp, with taxes presumably paid.

 

[aguero93:20]

Re: Discussion: Potential Pellegrini Replacements

If two successive managers have lost the dressing room coincidentally in the season after they win a league title, then we should be looking at the players. they're the constant here. we've already switched managers and the same thing has happened again.

And if it was clear for all to see then these threads would be much shorter

This remains very much my point of view and I am not making excuses for Pellegrini (I think he has faults and by no means does he do everything the way I would prefer) but there is no excusing the sort of display the players gave against Burnley with any ot the manager's actions. I could give a stuff if, for example, Silva's best position is not wide left: he has played there often enough, he gets license to drift anyway, he is supposed to be a top top player, it's a team game and you cannot always play in your preferred role.... When you go out on that pitch with a City shirt on, the first thing that is expected of you is to put in a shift that at least matches your opponents; no excuses, none, nada.

Do people really believe that players take the field with the intention of playing badly? To not try? To not control straight forward passes? To miss chances? To not defend properly? If there is a disconnect between manager and team it tends to manifest itself in poor performance and this happens at all levels and in all sports.

No, of course not, the manager and DOF attempt to set the team up to force them to do these things, none of the players carry any responsibility for playing every match like a testimonial since Christmas.

 

[pml79]

Re: Discussion: Potential Pellegrini Replacements

Just a small point too - Begiristain and Soriano faced this issue previously.

At the end of the 07/08 season, Barca were struggling under Rijkaard since Xmas and there was a feeling that he had lost the dressing room due to his management of Ronaldinho and a couple of others.

Cruyff and others including Soriano wanted to sack him in the February/March and replace him but Txiki Begiristain politicked extremely hard against this to the point where there were rumours in the Spanish press that he was willing to put his job on the line for it.

Begiristain was a big advocate of Pep taking over who was in charge of the B Team at the time, but said that parachuting him in with a few games left would be disastrous for both the club and the future of a manager they wanted. Instead they should let the season play out as it was going to play out, then give Guardiola the reigns instead of putting him in an unwinnable scenario. Barca finished third that year which was by no means a foregone conclusion and obviously Guardiola came in the next summer.

My point is that this has happened before with the exact same decision makers in charge and they all seemed to recognise the value of waiting instead of potentially wrecking a new manager's start. The idea that we'll sack Pellegrini before the end of the season is an massive long shot for my money.

9 times out of 10 that's the right thing to do. The only concern is that it is clear for all to see that our players want to win the CL. They don't seem too concerned about winning the prem again, they are certainly not going to fight for it. There was definitely a half arsed approach on the pitch on Saturday. Most wanted to keep fresh for the CL. If we go out of the CL how much fight is there to finish in the top 4. People might say there's no way we'll not be in the top 4 - but look at how poor we've been since Jan. The other teams are showing form at the right time and we are looking so easy to beat.

The only thing that can save this season now is beating Barcelona and putting in a real performance. You can see that the manager has tried to mix things up but the players are letting us down. People talk about formations but we've seen the 4-4-2 blow almost every team apart when the players do their jobs correctly. It doesn't matter who the manager is, if this bunch of players isn't addressed then we are in trouble. It's time to mix things up, to lower the age and to ensure only the fighters remain at the club. I'm more concerned by the players than the manager at the moment. We've seen two contrasting managerial approaches get the same out of them... tough love didn't work... praise and trust hasn't worked either.

We can't be sacking Pellegrini now though - this is a big summer and we need to show a long term strategy to attract the best players. Fortunately, if Vieira was seen as the man to step up - his name alone could bring several top quality players to our club.

I don't see us sacking Pellegrini now and I think it would be the wrong move. I am less sure that he will survive the summer but I do continue to believe that the players are the bigger issue. Let's hope that they have enough about them to be bothered to ensure we finish top four.

Think the next two games for me will decide what happens 1. We win on wednesday and beat w.b.a on sat things will calm down 2. We get hammerd by barca then draw or lose to w.b.a he is burnt toast sack him then

 

[hgblue]

Re: Discussion: Potential Pellegrini Replacements

This remains very much my point of view and I am not making excuses for Pellegrini (I think he has faults and by no means does he do everything the way I would prefer) but there is no excusing the sort of display the players gave against Burnley with any ot the manager's actions. I could give a stuff if, for example, Silva's best position is not wide left: he has played there often enough, he gets license to drift anyway, he is supposed to be a top top player, it's a team game and you cannot always play in your preferred role.... When you go out on that pitch with a City shirt on, the first thing that is expected of you is to put in a shift that at least matches your opponents; no excuses, none, nada.

Do people really believe that players take the field with the intention of playing badly? To not try? To not control straight forward passes? To miss chances? To not defend properly? If there is a disconnect between manager and team it tends to manifest itself in poor performance and this happens at all levels and in all sports.

It's not about intending to play badly. Even below par, they dominated the game against Burnley but what they did not do is put in the extra effort to make sure that they won the game. They lacked intensity and it is inexcusable; even if they are not happy with the manager's tactics etc. The thing is, do we actually know how the players feel about the manager's tactics? If they are unhappy with something, have they taken it up with him and if they have, why hasn't he changed? I've hard often enough that he is too soft so surely he doesn't lay the law down with the players?

It's inconceivable to me that the players haven't made the manager aware that they don't like the tactics. I've heard Pellegrini many times mention the word trust in post match interviews after the latest poor performance. Quite an enigmatic statement from the manager that's open to interpretation, but the way I see it the manager is asking the players to trust him and his chosen tactics. This suggests to me that the manager believes there's an issue around this area, which also suggests to me that discussions have taken place. Having been around football teams all my life I'd be absolutely amazed if they haven't. The manager is perfectly within his rights to tell the players that it's his way or the highway, but this carries with it a risk that a divide will open up between the manager and players. It's my belief that this is what has in fact happened, and the performance of the team is suffering as a result.

 

[aguero93:20]

Re: Discussion: Potential Pellegrini Replacements

Do people really believe that players take the field with the intention of playing badly? To not try? To not control straight forward passes? To miss chances? To not defend properly? If there is a disconnect between manager and team it tends to manifest itself in poor performance and this happens at all levels and in all sports.

It's not about intending to play badly. Even below par, they dominated the game against Burnley but what they did not do is put in the extra effort to make sure that they won the game. They lacked intensity and it is inexcusable; even if they are not happy with the manager's tactics etc. The thing is, do we actually know how the players feel about the manager's tactics? If they are unhappy with something, have they taken it up with him and if they have, why hasn't he changed? I've hard often enough that he is too soft so surely he doesn't lay the law down with the players?

It's inconceivable to me that the players haven't made the manager aware that they don't like the tactics. I've heard Pellegrini many times mention the word trust in post match interviews after the latest poor performance. Quite an enigmatic statement from the manager that's open to interpretation, but the way I see it the manager is asking the players to trust him and his chosen tactics. This suggests to me that the manager believes there's an issue around this area, which also suggests to me that discussions have taken place. Having been around football teams all my life I'd be absolutely amazed if they haven't. The manager is perfectly within his rights to tell the players that it's his way or the highway, but this carries with it a risk that a divide will open up between the manager and players. It's my belief that this is what has in fact happened, and the performance of the team is suffering as a result.

If our players only line of communication with the manager is via the gutter press at press conferences then our problems run far, far deeper than Pellegrini.

 

[blueinsa]

Re: Discussion: Potential Pellegrini Replacements

Do people really believe that players take the field with the intention of playing badly? To not try? To not control straight forward passes? To miss chances? To not defend properly? If there is a disconnect between manager and team it tends to manifest itself in poor performance and this happens at all levels and in all sports.

It's not about intending to play badly. Even below par, they dominated the game against Burnley but what they did not do is put in the extra effort to make sure that they won the game. They lacked intensity and it is inexcusable; even if they are not happy with the manager's tactics etc. The thing is, do we actually know how the players feel about the manager's tactics? If they are unhappy with something, have they taken it up with him and if they have, why hasn't he changed? I've hard often enough that he is too soft so surely he doesn't lay the law down with the players?

It's inconceivable to me that the players haven't made the manager aware that they don't like the tactics. I've heard Pellegrini many times mention the word trust in post match interviews after the latest poor performance. Quite an enigmatic statement from the manager that's open to interpretation, but the way I see it the manager is asking the players to trust him and his chosen tactics. This suggests to me that the manager believes there's an issue around this area, which also suggests to me that discussions have taken place. Having been around football teams all my life I'd be absolutely amazed if they haven't. The manager is perfectly within his rights to tell the players that it's his way or the highway, but this carries with it a risk that a divide will open up between the manager and players. It's my belief that this is what has in fact happened, and the performance of the team is suffering as a result.

Perfectly feasible and reasonable assumption to make yet the elephant in the room is these players have done this before with Bob and it had fuck all to do with 4-4-2 then.

 

[supercity88]

Re: Discussion: Potential Pellegrini Replacements

The point has been made and people are now starting to see that the players have too big a hold on this club. For me it's players that need replacing before we look at the manager. As has been said we've seen two contrasting management styles get the same result post success... there's one constant and that is poor performances by the players.

We make excuses for the team too often, blame tactics etc. Some people even think the reason we are doing poorly is because we can't score from corners... even though our general play is shite and we can't score or create good chances full stop. The fact is the players are much the same as last season, the tactics too... we have added to our squad but declined on the pitch. Pellegrini stuck to his guns last season and we showed brilliant form and won two trophies and progressed in Europe. This season he's done the same but the players just aren't putting in the necessary effort. They're not working as a team or fighting to win games. It's all half-arsed. It's a big summer ahead and I think we'll be in a better position if Pellegrini can work with the team for one more year with a fresher squad. Then we can assess things next season. We will see some passion against Barcelona because that's the trophy the players want. They're not bothered about winning the league again.

 

[chris85mcfc]

Re: Discussion: Potential Pellegrini Replacements

The point has been made and people are now starting to see that the players have too big a hold on this club. For me it's players that need replacing before we look at the manager. As has been said we've seen two contrasting management styles get the same result post success... there's one constant and that is poor performances by the players.

We make excuses for the team too often, blame tactics etc. Some people even think the reason we are doing poorly is because we can't score from corners... even though our general play is shite and we can't score or create good chances full stop. The fact is the players are much the same as last season, the tactics too... we have added to our squad but declined on the pitch. Pellegrini stuck to his guns last season and we showed brilliant form and won two trophies and progressed in Europe. This season he's done the same but the players just aren't putting in the necessary effort. They're not working as a team or fighting to win games. It's all half-arsed. It's a big summer ahead and I think we'll be in a better position if Pellegrini can work with the team for one more year with a fresher squad. Then we can assess things next season. We will see some passion against Barcelona because that's the trophy the players want. They're not bothered about winning the league again.

Perhaps the players have grown as disillusioned with the managers tactics as we have

Making the same mistakes time and time again will only leave the players questioning the manager

 

[Sergi0 Na5r1]

Re: Discussion: Potential Pellegrini Replacements

Perfectly feasible and reasonable assumption to make yet the elephant in the room is these players have done this before with Bob and it had fuck all to do with 4-4-2 then.

Maybe, and yet there is no excuse why we have to keep trying it (4-4-2) when it's not working and hasn't worked for a large part of this season against bigger teams and teams that play a midfield dominant game. It's good if the manager stuck to his guns earlier on but it's foolish to continue to do so when its clearly not effective anymore.

Either way I think you have to start by getting rid of the manager at this point if he's lost the trust of the players. Very difficult to get that back especially if the manager doesn't want to change. Or fire most of the squad and let him rebuild.... I think the first is a lot simpler.