Donald Trump

[flook]

dismantling the department of education is serving your interests.

Support for this, ignoring anything else the orange misogynistic narcissist has said, shows what a truly third world country 'merica is outside the main cities.

This is Taliban level of extremism

 

[Luddite_Blue]

It's there in plenty of detail if you look into it GDM.
I respect you as a poster, I wouldn't lie about something as serious as this. However, I couldn't live with myself if I didn't stick my head above the parapet, and call this out.
The agreement was set in place at a moment in history that was termed "The end of the Cold War".
Any one of 5 countries could have vetoed any specific detail to derail things, but not one of them did. They were all happy to sign. The trouble is, The American Industrial War Complex, is only interested in profits. The people that are driving this don't give a shit about Europe or its population, because they are out of harm's way in splendid isolation.
Trust me, look for the information and you will find it. If the late John Pilger is on the record with it, that should be proof enough.
Enjoy the remainder of the football season & Up The Blues !

You really haven’t got a fucking clue what you’re talking about. There was no specific agreement put in place that marked the end of the Cold War. The agreement that many people say heralded the end of the Cold War was the 1987 INF treaty which was an arms control treaty that made no reference to NATO expansion. You’re posting out of your arse.

Here there's numerous documents showing security assurances against eastwards NATO expansion to Soviet leaders from Baker, Bush, Genscher, Kohl, Gates, Mitterrand, Thatcher, Hurd, Major, and Woerner:

NATO Expansion: What Gorbachev Heard | National Security Archive

Western leaders gave multiple assurances against NATO expansion to Gorbachev in 1990-1991 according to declassified American, Russian, British, Germans documents

nsarchive.gwu.edu

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

You'll be the "wrong kind of Commie" to some.

The worst commies are the Comicommies. They’re weird as fuck.

 

[TinFoilHat]

The worst commies are the Comicommies. They’re weird as fuck.

 

[DrBlueBob]

Wonder how Jesus would fare if he rocked up at the Mexican/US border and filled a form in stating he was born in an Middle Eastern stable and wanted to spread a new religion into other lands.

Probably about as well as last time.

 

[flook]

Here there's numerous documents showing security assurances against eastwards NATO expansion to Soviet leaders from Baker, Bush, Genscher, Kohl, Gates, Mitterrand, Thatcher, Hurd, Major, and Woerner:

NATO Expansion: What Gorbachev Heard | National Security Archive

Western leaders gave multiple assurances against NATO expansion to Gorbachev in 1990-1991 according to declassified American, Russian, British, Germans documents

nsarchive.gwu.edu

Interesting stuff, however this is all in reference to assurances given to the Soviet Union, in part to placate the fear of NATO influencing the breakup of the Soviet Union, an action which came about from internal forces not external.

As the Soviet Union no longer exists, then there can be no threat to that union by NATO expansion, nor can there be a breach of any such assurances.

Now obviously you are equating Russia with the Soviet Union, and I could have some sympathy with that view if it weren't for the following:

1 - former SU countries are now self governing and self determining, and as such free to make application to join NATO (or even the Tufty Club if they so wish) which many have done.
2 - NATO have not (to my knowledge) courted such applications, and have rather the opposite approach and made the membership process quite onerous
3 - Expecting NATO to stand by commitments to a non-existent state whilst blatantly breaking their (Russias) own covenant to Ukraine made as part of the denuclearisation of Ukraine is a little bit cheeky
4 - Putin is a war-mongering ****

 

[Shrimp]

Here there's numerous documents showing security assurances against eastwards NATO expansion to Soviet leaders from Baker, Bush, Genscher, Kohl, Gates, Mitterrand, Thatcher, Hurd, Major, and Woerner:

NATO Expansion: What Gorbachev Heard | National Security Archive

Western leaders gave multiple assurances against NATO expansion to Gorbachev in 1990-1991 according to declassified American, Russian, British, Germans documents

nsarchive.gwu.edu

Thank you so much Luddite Blue. It's frustrating being my age and not knowing how to use the tools of a computer properly. I knew I was telling the truth, so the mass opprobrium was like water off a ducks back.
Hopefully some of our 'keyboard warriors' will take the time to educate themselves ?
Thanks again and enjoy what remains of the season.

 

[Nightmare Walking]

Interesting stuff, however this is all in reference to assurances given to the Soviet Union, in part to placate the fear of NATO influencing the breakup of the Soviet Union, an action which came about from internal forces not external.

As the Soviet Union no longer exists, then there can be no threat to that union by NATO expansion, nor can there be a breach of any such assurances.

Now obviously you are equating Russia with the Soviet Union, and I could have some sympathy with that view if it weren't for the following:

1 - former SU countries are now self governing and self determining, and as such free to make application to join NATO (or even the Tufty Club if they so wish) which many have done.
2 - NATO have not (to my knowledge) courted such applications, and have rather the opposite approach and made the membership process quite onerous
3 - Expecting NATO to stand by commitments to a non-existent state whilst blatantly breaking their (Russias) own covenant to Ukraine made as part of the denuclearisation of Ukraine is a little bit cheeky
4 - Putin is a war-mongering ****

Don't come in here stating facts and the truth. There is absolutely no room for that in politics.

 

[SebastianBlue]

It's there in plenty of detail if you look into it GDM.
I respect you as a poster, I wouldn't lie about something as serious as this. However, I couldn't live with myself if I didn't stick my head above the parapet, and call this out.
The agreement was set in place at a moment in history that was termed "The end of the Cold War".
Any one of 5 countries could have vetoed any specific detail to derail things, but not one of them did. They were all happy to sign. The trouble is, The American Industrial War Complex, is only interested in profits. The people that are driving this don't give a shit about Europe or its population, because they are out of harm's way in splendid isolation.
Trust me, look for the information and you will find it. If the late John Pilger is on the record with it, that should be proof enough.
Enjoy the remainder of the football season & Up The Blues !

Here there's numerous documents showing security assurances against eastwards NATO expansion to Soviet leaders from Baker, Bush, Genscher, Kohl, Gates, Mitterrand, Thatcher, Hurd, Major, and Woerner:

NATO Expansion: What Gorbachev Heard | National Security Archive

Western leaders gave multiple assurances against NATO expansion to Gorbachev in 1990-1991 according to declassified American, Russian, British, Germans documents

nsarchive.gwu.edu

Thank you so much Luddite Blue. It's frustrating being my age and not knowing how to use the tools of a computer properly. I knew I was telling the truth, so the mass opprobrium was like water off a ducks back.
Hopefully some our 'keyboard warriors' will take some time to educate themselves ?
Thanks again and enjoy what remains of the season.

I was coming on to point out that the Soviet Union no longer exists, so the assurances (not legally binding commitments, none such ever existed) of no eastern NATO expansion to that entity are not only null and void in principle, but for the security of Europe and protection of the sovereignty of the independent states that once comprised the Soviet Union, they needed to be wholly ignored as soon as Putin came to power, as he has actually violated numerous legally binding agreements, treaties, settlements, international laws, and the sovereignty of several independent European states since the early days of his reign on his quest for the reformation of a new Soviet Union in his kleptocratic, authoritarian vision.

Arguing that NATO should ignore independent state interest (and outright application) to join the defence organization over the past 20 years or so because of assurances made to a defunct nation that once possessed the territory in which those independent states now exist is like saying Great Britain and France should have ignored Hitler invading Poland because Warmia and Masuria was once part of East Prussia, the Treaty of Versailles was signed, and earlier appeasement from Chamberlain and Daladier. The fact that political analysts and historians liken Putin's 2008 invasion of Georgia to Hitler's annexing of Sudetenland as the "green light" signal that Europe was weak and could not functionally oppose further territorially expansion should give one pause whenever one tries to make the "NATO is the aggressor argument".

But @flook beat me to it with his excellent post.

EDIT: Just pasted this comment over to the Russian invasion of Ukraine thread so as to not further hijack this one.

 

[cleavers]

I would suggest the best course of action would be to just put 'Hi Tomfoolery' on ignore as none of his posts even make the tiniest bit of sense now (they started as truly moronic idealogue and now they are straight WUM nonsense) and it is fairly obvious he is a returning troll not from the US. He's a gremlin--feeding him (especially after midnight) just makes him grow.

There'll be no point anyone arguing with him any further, I don't think he'll be back ;-)