Donald Trump

Dax777 said:
That said,

"You got to pay. You got to pay your bills.”

His position has always been that lots of NATO countries take advantage of the U.S. and don't pay their share as required by the NATO agreement they signed.

Why aren't these countries paying their share? That's the real issue. Russia is a side point. The issue here is paying your dues.



IFFS this is not rocket science :(
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It's a very straightforward question. But we never get any answers on here about it. It's just criticism of Trump for asking it.
 
Dax777 said:
Let me explain by analogy:

Suppose we have a crew of 20 friends who get together weekly for expensive dinners. And we pay money into a fund to got to that dinner based on how much money each person makes.

Now suppose 3 or 4 guys choose not to pay but keep coming to dinner to eat. And then one day I complain and say only those who pay should come for dinner...

Then one of those guys asks, are you going to tell the bouncer to toss us out if we don't pay? And I say yeah! You must pay, if you don't of coz the bouncer should toss you out.


The conclusion any common sense person should reach is that I really want you to pay your fee.

To conclude the important point is that I want bouncers tossing you... Is Frankly comical.
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And if Europe doesn't pay into Nato

"I ENCOURAGE Putin to do what the hell he wants"
 
SebastianBlue said:
First, there are no domestic defence spending requirements or obligations in the NA treaty—the defence spending as a percentage of GDP is a guideline, not a mandate. There are no provisions for a NATO member to withhold support or military aid to another member due to them not meeting that 2% target, and that spending does not go to the US or other NATO members. Calling it a mandate or referring to the spending as “unpaid fees” is just patently false and exceedingly ignorant.

Second, Trump is the one threatening to withhold military support for NATO countries if Russia invades them if they don’t pay whatever he deems to be their “fair share”, which he has been consistently vague defining, or has moved the goalposts past the NATO targets even saying that NATO countries should double defence spending to 4% (and even higher)!

So he is literally setting the requirements, completely outside of the NA treaty, for NATO members to receive military support and aid from the US, by far largest military within NATO (which is largely by the US’ design, I might add).

My god, this isn’t an act, is it?

Please, please educate yourself on the NA treaty and NATO member obligations before jumping in to this sort of debate:

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Noooo! You are not as dense as you pretend to be. Is this what you are resting your faulty argument on?

“We're still waiting on 20 member states to meet their NATO commitments and spend at least 2 percent on defense. And 2 percent is a very low number. The number really should be 4 percent,” Trump said."


THe above is what anyone with a modicum of common sense can spot for what it is: A negotiation tactic . I suppose common sense sometimes goes missing with people suffering from TDS.
 
lloydie said:
FFS, we're not in the EU but we're still in Europe. Is there any subject that you're not pig ignorant about?
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Let me give you the benefit of the doubt here:

I said: this:

"That's an analogy to simplify. It's not that complicated. Stop pretending it is. Spend 2% of GDP on defense. That's the mandate NATO came up with."

To which you replied "UK does!"

Did you think my post was personally directed at you and by extension assumed your country of origin and believed your country of origin wasn't spending 2%?
Hence why you responded '"Which the UK does!"?

I am genuinely confused. It was a general statement about what NATO required. Hence why I'm confused why you are telling me one country that meets it. Since I didn't suggest any specific country didn't.
 
SebastianBlue said:
How anyone could read Trump’s quote in this particular instance—or the many others where he praises Putin and indicates he wants to end the Ukraine war by ensuring large swathes of Ukraine are ceded to Russia—then they have a big comprehension problem. Or they are simply either too dumb or too brainwashed to actually understand what Trump is saying (and intends to do if he is reelected).

“Former President Donald Trump on Saturday said he would encourage Russia to do “whatever the hell they want” to any NATO member country that doesn’t meet spending guidelines on defense in a stunning admission he would not abide by the collective-defense clause at the heart of the alliance if reelected.​
​
“NATO was busted until I came along,” Trump said at a rally in Conway, South Carolina. “I said, ‘Everybody’s gonna pay.’ They said, ‘Well, if we don’t pay, are you still going to protect us?’ I said, ‘Absolutely not.’ They couldn’t believe the answer.”​
​
Trump said “one of the presidents of a big country” at one point asked him whether the US would still defend the country if they were invaded by Russia even if they “don’t pay.”​
​
“No, I would not protect you,” Trump recalled telling that president. “In fact, I would encourage them to do whatever the hell they want. You got to pay. You got to pay your bills.”​
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Does anybody really believe the leader of another country said that to him?
 
Dax777 said:
Noooo! You are not as dense as you pretend to be. Is this what you are resting your faulty argument on?

“We're still waiting on 20 member states to meet their NATO commitments and spend at least 2 percent on defense. And 2 percent is a very low number. The number really should be 4 percent,” Trump said."


THe above is what anyone with a modicum of common sense can spot for what it is: A negotiation tactic . I suppose common sense sometimes goes missing with people suffering from TDS.
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I give up.
 
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