Donald Trump

[mancity2012_eamo]

I think it's somewhat different.

The laity of the Catholic church in Germany were let down by their hierarchy who continually and to varying degrees accomodated the Nazis. In contrast, while elections were still a thing, German Catholics voted for the Nazis in much lower numbers than their Protestant counterparts and then actively mounted some of the strongest resistance to the Nazis. Very few were mugged off by "Positive Christianity" and ultimately many many Catholics, even beyond the obvious of the predominantly Catholic population of Poland, went to their deaths in the camps.

In contrast a huge proportion of grassroots evangelical Christians in the US are voting for Trump and many seem to have actively embraced a kind of Rosenberg-esque corruption of Christianity.

Btw - this is not intended to be a sectarian comment, more that what Rosenberg tried and mostly failed to achieve with the Nazi's in terms of establishing a muscular ethnochristianity corruption as a key element of the state, seems to have gained more traction in the US that it did in Europe at the time of the rise of the Nazis.

@threespires i would say your depiction of history is correct or at least concurs with what I researched before ripping into my brother, who is a Catholic priest of a particularly traditional puritanical order.
I tore him a new asshole over his order, their devotion to their own patriarch and the Vatican. And particularly as Ratzinger was pope at the time.
I put him on the spot over the Vatican’s attitude towards Naziism during the WW2.
He had no answers for me.

I don’t mind anyone having whatever form of spirituality they want. Whatever gives you comfort, as long as you afford everyone else the same right.
I believe in the separation of church and state. Something that thankfully has been done in my lifetime, in Ireland. I believe America is regressing and it could possibly lead to the break up of the union, although doubtfully in my lifetime.

While I’m in the subject. I don’t believe church and state are separate in the UK.
The king is head of both.

Discuss!

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

FFS!

By any objective application of contemporary international law, the land was illegally taken from the Native Americans.

Are you suggesting it was acquired via negotiation?

 

[MillionMilesAway]

I see the politeness is gone, extended abuse of Biden.
He's just talking complete twaddle about how it would be reported too.
We've had the bizarre shark/electrocution ramble (not sure sharks are going to be very common in Michigan, so asking how many saw sharks is weird).

 

[threespires]

@threespires i would say your depiction of history is correct or at least concurs with what I researched before ripping into my brother, who is a Catholic priest of a particularly traditional puritanical order.
I tore him a new asshole over his order, their devotion to their own patriarch and the Vatican. And particularly as Ratzinger was pope at the time.
I put him on the spot over the Vatican’s attitude towards Naziism during the WW2.
He had no answers for me.

I don’t mind anyone having whatever form of spirituality they want. Whatever gives you comfort, as long as you afford everyone else the same right.
I believe in the separation of church and state. Something that thankfully has been done in my lifetime, in Ireland. I believe America is regressing and it could possibly lead to the break up of the union, although doubtfully in my lifetime.

While I’m in the subject. I don’t believe church and state are separate in the UK.
The king is head of both.

Discuss!

Yeah not wishing to derail the thread but completely agree with you re separation of state and church and I say that as someone who does practice a faith.
You can actually see a route where the US or part becomes some form of theocracy not that far removed from Margaret Atwood's Gilead. I'd not have thought that possible when I first read that book however many years ago.

There's a significant number of conservative Catholic headbangers in the US that support Trump and they are arguably madder than the Evangelical Christians because, putting aside the fact that they're supporting a godless scumbag, it's like turkey's voting for Christmas.

 

[N1985]

If you think that shooting was staged you're an imbecile. The exact kind of idiot the internet has bred.

Trump missed a trick there. Should have come out to Hulk Hogans theme song and tore his shirt off just to make it a tad more American.

Or you know, fuck it, get the real Hulk Hogan. Fucking America, great stuff

 

[Koniec]

Says he took a bullet for democracy, that’s like Jesus getting a splinter to erase our sins. Grazed Donald, you got grazed. Possibly. Maybe glass hit you.

 

[ChicagoBlue]

@threespires … ripping into my brother, who is a Catholic priest of a particularly traditional puritanical order.
I tore him a new asshole over his order,

That’s a little “on the nose” when discussing traditional, Puritanical Catholic priests, isn’t it?

Fwiw, the Catholic priest that married me was my wife’s uncle, who ended up leaving the Church because of what he was being required to say and do, given his own personal sexual leanings. Once departed, he lived a very depressing, ostracized life in his small Ohio community. It was made “known” he left because he was gay, rather than the hypocrisy he was being told to promote, even as the Church paid out millions in lawsuits and shuffled their pedo priests around to different diocese.

It is, was, and always will be unnatural to suggest abstinence and celibacy are a natural order, and that the Love of God should be enough, to young men…unless you’re willing to medically or chemically castrate them do their brains don’t torture them for the rest of their lives.

But I digress…ripping into your priest brother and tearing him a new arsehole just seemed a little too ironic and not a little incestuously gay!

:-)

 

[threespires]

That’s a little “on the nose” when discussing traditional, Puritanical Catholic priests, isn’t it?

Fwiw, the Catholic priest that married me was my wife’s uncle, who ended up leaving the Church because of what he was being required to say and do, given his own personal sexual leanings. Once departed, he lived a very depressing, ostracized life in his small Ohio community. It was made “known” he left because he was gay, rather than the hypocrisy he was being told to promote, even as the Church paid out millions in lawsuits and shuffled their pedo priests around to different diocese.

It is, was, and always will be unnatural to suggest abstinence and celibacy are a natural order, and that the Love of God should be enough, to young men…unless you’re willing to medically or chemically castrate them do their brains don’t torture them for the rest of their lives.

But I digress…ripping into your priest brother and tearing him a new arsehole just seemed a little too ironic and not a little incestuously gay!

:-)

The whole area of the introduction of celibacy in the priesthood is interesting, too much greco-roman philosophy and not enough recognition of the family orientation of the religion from which it sprang. Council of Nicea wouldn't agree to it but the aesthetics kept chipping away and eventually got to use abstract philosophical ideals as the basis for practical policy implementation. What could possibly go wrong? Hmmm, quite a lot it turns out. But that's for another thread!

 

[The blue phantom]

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

That’s a little “on the nose” when discussing traditional, Puritanical Catholic priests, isn’t it?

Fwiw, the Catholic priest that married me was my wife’s uncle, who ended up leaving the Church because of what he was being required to say and do, given his own personal sexual leanings. Once departed, he lived a very depressing, ostracized life in his small Ohio community. It was made “known” he left because he was gay, rather than the hypocrisy he was being told to promote, even as the Church paid out millions in lawsuits and shuffled their pedo priests around to different diocese.

It is, was, and always will be unnatural to suggest abstinence and celibacy are a natural order, and that the Love of God should be enough, to young men…unless you’re willing to medically or chemically castrate them do their brains don’t torture them for the rest of their lives.

But I digress…ripping into your priest brother and tearing him a new arsehole just seemed a little too ironic and not a little incestuously gay!

:-)

I get it. But no. It was nothing like that.
It was for reasons, quite personal to our family. I had finally had enough of him taking over every family funeral and turning it into his own opportunity to preach.
The only time he ever turned up was at funerals. My poor mother and father never saw him for well over a decade having put him through college first, for him to disappear into this order.
An order that revered its Mexican founder like the Pope himself. It turned out this same Patriarch that was preaching abstinence, had his own mistress and family and was outed decades later.

There were particular incidents that happened at a family funeral that were the last straw. I won’t go into them, but the hypocrisy of the church needed to be pointed out to him.

I did my research. Had my facts straight. Launched into him over coffee in Dublin City when he was here on his annual visit, which only started happening after my parents were both gone.
I said my piece and then let it rest in peace.

Instantly forgot about it and all I had researched. I had no further need for it.