Dzeko, Tevez and the system

[franksinatra]

so much talk about the system, tactics, strikers, dzeko being rusty, tevez greedy, 4-3-3, diamond...to what cause....your team needs time to gel...Dzeko has to settle in, you can't expect him to change his style of play overnight and start banging them in for fun...Tevez also, I've been banging on about him being greedy, but he's been a lone striker for two years now, he also needs time to get used to a partner upfront...and Mancini has to get his head straight, I think he was more worrying about his father or who was it, last night than concentrating on the game, because it took him to long to realize where the team was bad and where changes had to be done...Silva was completely out of shape, and Mancini managed to miss that, and instead let Dzeko play wide left, and even as a left back at couple of occasions...once even as a dm while villa had the ball, ndj, yaya, silva tevez and johnson were all in front of him...you just need time...

Time is a key aspect and as they are all good players they will be successful to varying degrees. But still you have to find the best system to accomodate the players at your disposal. Gerrard and Lampard for England is a prime example of two players struggling at the highest level as the syatem struggles to accomodate them both.

Not sure about your theory on Mancini missing things due to his fathers situation. As highlighted on this thread many people see things in a very different way. Silva is always likely to produce a moment of magic during the game, whether completely fit ot otherwise and so to take an offensive player off when chasing the game would of been an equally big call.

 

[Scooby Blue]

Tevez + Silva tend to drift around so much that getting bogged down in exactly how to describe the system is a bit pointless I think.

I thought Silva was a bit off the pace against Villa (maybe his full recovery from injury will take some time) but normally he is the player we need to get on the ball entering the opponents final third of the pitch.

I have seen enough of Silva to suggest that he is more than capable of playing the central attacking midfield role, rather than the floating winger/forward role he has been assigned so far.

In games where we are being asked to break down teams, we need to tweak the NDJ/Barry/Yaya set-up to get more attack-minded players on the pitch.

I would like to see:
...........NDJ........Yaya
.................Silva
.......AJ..................Tevez/Balo
................Dzeko

Yaya still gets to make his powerful runs forward, Tevez still gets the freedom to roam (Knowing that in Dzeko we should normally have someone to get on the end of things in the box)...and Silva gets the opportunity to bring the ball forward with plenty of intelligent movement ahead of him.

 

[No17]

so much talk about the system, tactics, strikers, dzeko being rusty, tevez greedy, 4-3-3, diamond...to what cause....your team needs time to gel...Dzeko has to settle in, you can't expect him to change his style of play overnight and start banging them in for fun...Tevez also, I've been banging on about him being greedy, but he's been a lone striker for two years now, he also needs time to get used to a partner upfront...and Mancini has to get his head straight, I think he was more worrying about his father or who was it, last night than concentrating on the game, because it took him to long to realize where the team was bad and where changes had to be done...Silva was completely out of shape, and Mancini managed to miss that, and instead let Dzeko play wide left, and even as a left back at couple of occasions...once even as a dm while villa had the ball, ndj, yaya, silva tevez and johnson were all in front of him...you just need time...

Time is a key aspect and as they are all good players they will be successful to varying degrees. But still you have to find the best system to accomodate the players at your disposal. Gerrard and Lampard for England is a prime example of two players struggling at the highest level as the syatem struggles to accomodate them both.

Not sure about your theory on Mancini missing things due to his fathers situation. As highlighted on this thread many people see things in a very different way. Silva is always likely to produce a moment of magic during the game, whether completely fit ot otherwise and so to take an offensive player off when chasing the game would of been an equally big call.

Agree with you too...but his lost ball also cost city the match (don't think hart could do much more about the shot)...manciny theory was just a thought, a shot in the dark...he had milner there and aj (who came on eventuelly)...silva wasn't there when city played wolves and it looked pretty good offensively...so why not give it another shot since you're already behind...silva, even though I again say agree with you, he can provide a moment of magic at any moment...had a completely off game last night...

 

[Shaelumstash]

Tevez + Silva tend to drift around so much that getting bogged down in exactly how to describe the system is a bit pointless I think.

I thought Silva was a bit off the pace against Villa (maybe his full recovery from injury will take some time) but normally he is the player we need to get on the ball entering the opponents final third of the pitch.

I have seen enough of Silva to suggest that he is more than capable of playing the central attacking midfield role, rather than the floating winger/forward role he has been assigned so far.

In games where we are being asked to break down teams, we need to tweak the NDJ/Barry/Yaya set-up to get more attack-minded players on the pitch.

I would like to see:
...........NDJ........Yaya
.................Silva
.......AJ..................Tevez/Balo
................Dzeko

Yaya still gets to make his powerful runs forward, Tevez still gets the freedom to roam (Knowing that in Dzeko we should normally have someone to get on the end of things in the box)...and Silva gets the opportunity to bring the ball forward with plenty of intelligent movement ahead of him.

I agree with you Scooby, people get so precious wbout whether it's 433, 4231, 4321, they are all essentially the same system with minor tweaks and they switch between them all during the ebbs and flows of a game.

The shape you have drawn does show Tevez starting on the left. I appreciate he drifts inside as you pointed out, but I think the problem is he has been poor in the past when playing this role. He has played the best football of his career as the central, focal point of our attacks.

I really hope I'm wrong, but i'm concerned Dzeko's arrival is going to upset the shape of the team that has been playing so well. Not his fault, just square pegs and round holes and all that

 

[franksinatra]

Time is a key aspect and as they are all good players they will be successful to varying degrees. But still you have to find the best system to accomodate the players at your disposal. Gerrard and Lampard for England is a prime example of two players struggling at the highest level as the syatem struggles to accomodate them both.

Not sure about your theory on Mancini missing things due to his fathers situation. As highlighted on this thread many people see things in a very different way. Silva is always likely to produce a moment of magic during the game, whether completely fit ot otherwise and so to take an offensive player off when chasing the game would of been an equally big call.

Agree with you too...but his lost ball also cost city the match (don't think hart could do much more about the shot)...manciny theory was just a thought, a shot in the dark...he had milner there and aj (who came on eventuelly)...silva wasn't there when city played wolves and it looked pretty good offensively...so why not give it another shot since you're already behind...silva, even though I again say agree with you, he can provide a moment of magic at any moment...had a completely off game last night...

The lost ball was a bit of dual responsibility, he should of done better although the centre half shouldn't have played the ball as he was closed down almost immediately. I must admit I though Hart should of turned it round the post, he got a good hand to it.

We did look good against Wolves but just like against Villa we looked disjointed for the first 20 mins though. Goals change games to quote a much loved cliche and unfortunately one wasnt forthcoming against Villa.

Thats the thing with rotating players its considered a mistake, although for me putting Silva back in was logical as he has been absolutely fantastic these last few months.

 

[cleavers]

I agree with you Scooby, people get so precious wbout whether it's 433, 4231, 4321, they are all essentially the same system with minor tweaks and they switch between them all during the ebbs and flows of a game.

People always get anal over these numbers, what Mancini is trying to do is have total flexibility, it doesn't need a number attached to it, the system is a total football system. If the LB goes forward he's covered by CB or DCM, if the CF goes wide ACM fills in.

Mancini has been trying to do this since he arrived, but only now does he have the personnel to do it, and I'd argue he still lacks pace coming from the midfield area to complete the equation.

He's assembling a team that can all play in a flexible way based on a 433, it will adapt for the team we are playing on the day.

 

[Shaelumstash]

I agree with you Scooby, people get so precious wbout whether it's 433, 4231, 4321, they are all essentially the same system with minor tweaks and they switch between them all during the ebbs and flows of a game.

People always get anal over these numbers, what Mancini is trying to do is have total flexibility, it doesn't need a number attached to it, the system is a total football system. If the LB goes forward he's covered by CB or DCM, if the CF goes wide ACM fills in.

Mancini has been trying to do this since he arrived, but only now does he have the personnel to do it, and I'd argue he still lacks pace coming from the midfield area to complete the equation.

He's assembling a team that can all play in a flexible way based on a 433, it will adapt for the team we are playing on the day.

Completely agree with you Cleavers. The system is completely fluid and inter changable. The only constant is that we play with one central striker, that's why I think the system is under threat with Dzeko because him and Tevez are both best when playing centrally

 

[g180aj]

the formation doesn't look like it fits to me i think it would be miles better playing a formation like this.

--------------------Hart----------------------
----------toure------------kompany-----------
richards--------------------------------kolarov
-------------------dejong---------------------
--------yaya--------------------barry---------
-------------------silva-----------------------
-----------tevez----------dzeko---------------

i think the full backs will provide the width, tevez will be able to roam and link with silva too and dzeko will get the support alongside him too.

 

[wanderer72]

I agree with you Scooby, people get so precious wbout whether it's 433, 4231, 4321, they are all essentially the same system with minor tweaks and they switch between them all during the ebbs and flows of a game.

People always get anal over these numbers, what Mancini is trying to do is have total flexibility, it doesn't need a number attached to it, the system is a total football system. If the LB goes forward he's covered by CB or DCM, if the CF goes wide ACM fills in.

Mancini has been trying to do this since he arrived, but only now does he have the personnel to do it, and I'd argue he still lacks pace coming from the midfield area to complete the equation.

He's assembling a team that can all play in a flexible way based on a 433, it will adapt for the team we are playing on the day.

I didn't see anyone get anal over those figures, but if you want to use them, learn what they actually mean rather than calling people idiots for not agreeing with your redifining them altogether, using them as some sort of the ultimate proof, only to end the end say, once everyone noticed you don't have a bloody idea what you're talking about "they don't really matter@. Wtf? That's the whole point.

I agree it is only now that Mancini has all the necessary ingredients, apart from potentially more creativity in the midfield. That still doesn't mean he'll be able to cook a lovely dessert with them, as egos can always turn it into a food fight. Unless these guys understand quite soon that the team comes before their egos, all disastrous outcomes and scenarios are in play. City can end up returning to what it was in the 80-ies and 90-ies in a few years. I don't want this to sound too "negative", just to illustrate the importance of reducing these egos, and making sure everything gels together.

 

[Shaelumstash]

the formation doesn't look like it fits to me i think it would be miles better playing a formation like this.

--------------------Hart----------------------
----------toure------------kompany-----------
richards--------------------------------kolarov
-------------------dejong---------------------
--------yaya--------------------barry---------
-------------------silva-----------------------
-----------tevez----------dzeko---------------

i think the full backs will provide the width, tevez will be able to roam and link with silva too and dzeko will get the support alongside him too.

You're absolutely spot on, that's the only way I can see us fitting Silva, Tevez and Dzeko in the same team. As I said before, I think the danger is that the middle gets too crowded and Silva doesn't find the same space as he does when drifting in from a wide position, but I'm confident we can't carry on playing Tevez wide, he just never looks the same player