Edin Dzeko (continued)

[BringBackSwales]

Am in block 106, and definitely heard booing when Garcia came on against Palace. Not good.

Your only piece of evidence that Dzeko was booed is a poster saying he heard Garcia being booed????

I said it before, on a different thread which appears to have been deleted for some reason?, there were 2 occasions when I hear people boo Edin (not barrack, but boo) in the Palace game in EL2, and I think this was corroborated by another poster who sits in the same area. It was not mass booing, probably 1 or 2 indiviuals in each case. I also apologise for not twatting them in the mouth but (a) I was not sure exactly which people did it and (b) such actions of violence have been generally codemned to the 1970's and 1980's, but then again so should booing, barracking and slagging CITY players.

Personally I like Edin, as a man and as a player, and what he has done for us, but I appreciate that other fans have different views, but FFS stop slagging him off now, get behind him, and almost certainly the extra support will make any player a better player, just as much as almost certainly negativity will make any player a worse player

 

[Anonymous]

clarify this for me please, negredo seems to spend more time as a no. 10 than aguero or dzeko imo.
We are on track to play c.60 games this season so game time wont be an issue for any of our strikers, it's not like dzeko isn't getting a fair amount of game time.

Dzeko was playing no.10 in last Blackburn game and Negredo no.9,. So it is not always true.
Dzeko and Negrede are dependable of the suppy of their midfield with quality passes. If midfield give them big amount of quality passes they will score more. And other way around. Dzeko and Negredo can not create ( or rarely can) chance by them selfs like Aguero, Suarez, Ibra and few others can. Dzeko can have great game ( running, assists, holding up ball well like Bayern away game ) but do not get good supply from midfield and would look average. Also he can be shit all the game. Get one quality pass he would score and be average again. For Dzeko to be great in all ( of his few PL starts ) he needed to be great personally and he needed to have good supply of quality assists. It WAS not the case in ALL of his few PL games. So it was really hard from him to be great. Knowing that he "must" score was making things even harder for him. And he got really minimal amount of PL game time to begin with.
Yes it would be enough games. Negredo allready have 450 min + PL games than Dzeko. At the end of the season he would have 1000 PL min + than Dzeko. Negredo will play all the derbies. All further CL games and Dzeko will play mainly cup games. You as a person with such big football knowledge. Should of course know that players good as Dzeko still is. Would not agree on that, neither would Negredo. The only solution was to give tham both similar amount of PL games from the start. To create three inform strikers instead of two inform strikers. Manager had all tools necessary to do it. He had chose to confront Negredo vs Dzeko. So they have to fight for one place. Which should not of happen.

 

[foetus]

Your only piece of evidence that Dzeko was booed is a poster saying he heard Garcia being booed????

I said it before, on a different thread which appears to have been deleted for some reason?, there were 2 occasions when I hear people boo Edin (not barrack, but boo) in the Palace game in EL2, and I think this was corroborated by another poster who sits in the same area. It was not mass booing, probably 1 or 2 indiviuals in each case. I also apologise for not twatting them in the mouth but (a) I was not sure exactly which people did it and (b) such actions of violence have been generally codemned to the 1970's and 1980's, but then again so should booing, barracking and slagging CITY players.

Personally I like Edin, as a man and as a player, and what he has done for us, but I appreciate that other fans have different views, but FFS stop slagging him off now, get behind him, and almost certainly the extra support will make any player a better player, just as much as almost certainly negativity will make any player a worse player

I'm not sure if that last paragraph was aimed at me but can I make it clear that I like Edin...he frustrates me but I like him and think he's a great striker.

There is no need for booing players. I was just trying to make the point that non-city fans on this forum should not slag off actual city fans on this forum because of what they read in the papers. Fair enough you have given actual evidence but as people have already posted, the actions of one or two supporters don't account for every city fan. Unfortunately some fan boys can't see reason.

 

[aguero93:20]

Dzeko was playing no.10 in last Blackburn game and Negredo no.9,. So it is not always true.
Dzeko and Negrede are dependable of the suppy of their midfield with quality passes. If midfield give them big amount of quality passes they will score more. And other way around. Dzeko and Negredo can not create ( or rarely can) chance by them selfs like Aguero, Suarez, Ibra and few others can. Dzeko can have great game ( running, assists, holding up ball well like Bayern away game ) but do not get good supply from midfield and would look average. Also he can be shit all the game. Get one quality pass he would score and be average again. For Dzeko to be great in all ( of his few PL starts ) he needed to be great personally and he needed to have good supply of quality assists. It WAS not the case in ALL of his few PL games. So it was really hard from him to be great. Knowing that he "must" score was making things even harder for him. And he got really minimal amount of PL game time to begin with.
Yes it would be enough games. Negredo allready have 450 min + PL games than Dzeko. At the end of the season he would have 1000 PL min + than Dzeko. Negredo will play all the derbies. All further CL games and Dzeko will play mainly cup games. You as a person with such big football knowledge. Should of course know that players good as Dzeko still is. Would not agree on that, neither would Negredo. The only solution was to give tham both similar amount of PL games.

even though I've already proven that dzeko is playing a lot more in all the away fixtures you're still persisting with this?
You really don't seem to understand this Baka, but the one thing you do not do as a top level manager is put out anything less than your strongest available team for an important game. Our strongest team features Negredo, it doesn't feature Dzeko if both negredo and aguero are fit. So, yes, if both are fit they will start our 1 remaining derby and dzeko won't. There is nothing wrong with that. as for your first point, do you really think any striker will score goals without service from midfield? even Messi and Mueller couldn't score if their teammates fail (or failed in muellers case) to give them the ball in good positions, I fail to see how strikers not scoring without good service is in any way an argument for dzeko to feature, in fact as negredo is the more skilful and creative of the two. it's an argument for him not to feature.

 

[LJ75]

I'm not sure if that last paragraph was aimed at me but can I make it clear that I like Edin...he frustrates me but I like him and think he's a great striker.

There is no need for booing players. I was just trying to make the point that non-city fans on this forum should not slag off actual city fans on this forum because of what they read in the papers. Fair enough you have given actual evidence but as people have already posted, the actions of one or two supporters don't account for every city fan. Unfortunately some fan boys can't see reason.

You're cool, providing arguments and all.

It's this Puppet character that hides behind City fans by using 'we, us' vs them, bad mouthing Dzeko and Bosnians in general (or whoever has a different opinion to his). What's behind it, I don't know, but the fact that on the BM Home Page in the forum section, there is always Dzeko among recent posts, and more likely than not, Puppet as a poster, must mean something. Man crush, stalking, maybe he is even Bosnian whose girlfriend or sister Dzeko dated but refused to marry, don't know. I am sure modern medicine has a name for it, and perhaps, cure. No disrespect, just trying to help.

So please stop using us, we,..., asking for facts or evidence without ever providing any. Sometimes problems are of emotional nature, not factual, so numbers here will not help.

 

[Anonymous]

even though I've already proven that dzeko is playing a lot more in all the away fixtures you're still persisting with this?
You really don't seem to understand this Baka, but the one thing you do not do as a top level manager is put out anything less than your strongest available team for an important game. Our strongest team features Negredo, it doesn't feature Dzeko if both negredo and aguero are fit. So, yes, if both are fit they will start our 1 remaining derby and dzeko won't. There is nothing wrong with that. as for your first point, do you really think any striker will score goals without service from midfield? even Messi and Mueller couldn't score if their teammates fail (or failed in muellers case) to give them the ball in good positions, I fail to see how strikers not scoring without good service is in any way an argument for dzeko to feature, in fact as negredo is the more skilful and creative of the two. it's an argument for him not to feature.

1 ) You did not proven anything. PL AWAY GAMES. Dzeko 5 starts , 411 min. 2 goals; Negredo 7 starts . 555 min, 1 goal. PL ALL GAMES Negredo had played 450+ PL min. All of this stats are accurate to a minute. This extra minutes were making easier for Negredo to score more goals and in a process looks better player who should not be dropped. ( why should he has scored 8 goals, which Dzeko would also with that extra 450 min and manager maximal support from the start ).
2) Mancini had chosed to have 3 or even tried to have 4 ( Balotelli ) near WC inform strikers. Pellegrini from the start knew he will have 2 starters and 2 sub strikers. He had chosed diferent tactic/approach. He was making all his moves ( teams selection ) to achieve this. He did gave minimal chance for Dzeko, Pantilimon or Milner and Navas to break into first team.
3) Pellegrini does not use Rotation. He have already established starting 11. Even 7 bench players if all are fit. I can tell you all 18 of them anytime. And he change few player when others are injured, suspended or can burn out because of playing too much. He should call it substitutions, not rotation. He does not use rotation. Mancini on other hand was really using rotation and many more players were involved to the end of the season as possible starters. There are two completely diferent approaches.
4) Strikers can hardly score without midfield, true. But Aguero, Ibrahimovic, Tevez can get the ball far from the goal. They can dribble past 1,2,3 players and create chance for their selfs and score. Dzeko ( and Negredo ) are too dependable on quality assist from midfield. They can not dribble past 2 players and score. If midfield would look for Dzeko in whole game and assist him quality passes he would be 20 goals + player in any team, league. Similar goes for Negredo. City have so many other options and Dzeko played so little PL games. He would never achieve anywhere near his potentials ( 20+ league goals ).

 

[JasminBosnia]

Your only piece of evidence that Dzeko was booed is a poster saying he heard Garcia being booed????

and you're suprised?

The point is that some of you boo your own players. I've heard somewhere that genuine City fan would NEVER boo player while wearing blue.

 

[aguero93:20]

even though I've already proven that dzeko is playing a lot more in all the away fixtures you're still persisting with this?
You really don't seem to understand this Baka, but the one thing you do not do as a top level manager is put out anything less than your strongest available team for an important game. Our strongest team features Negredo, it doesn't feature Dzeko if both negredo and aguero are fit. So, yes, if both are fit they will start our 1 remaining derby and dzeko won't. There is nothing wrong with that. as for your first point, do you really think any striker will score goals without service from midfield? even Messi and Mueller couldn't score if their teammates fail (or failed in muellers case) to give them the ball in good positions, I fail to see how strikers not scoring without good service is in any way an argument for dzeko to feature, in fact as negredo is the more skilful and creative of the two. it's an argument for him not to feature.

1 ) You did not proven anything. PL AWAY GAMES. Dzeko 5 starts , 411 min. 2 goals; Negredo 7 starts . 555 min, 1 goal. PL ALL GAMES Negredo had played 450+ PL min. All of this stats are accurate to a minute. This extra minutes were making easier for Negredo to score more goals and in a process looks better player who should not be dropped. ( why should he has scored 8 goals, which Dzeko would also with that extra 450 min and manager maximal support from the start ).
2) Mancini had chosed to have 3 or even tried to have 4 ( Balotelli ) near WC inform strikers. Pellegrini from the start knew he will have 2 starters and 2 sub strikers. He had chosed diferent tactic/approach. He was making all his moves ( teams selection ) to achieve this. He did gave minimal chance for Dzeko, Pantilimon or Milner and Navas to break into first team.
3) Pellegrini does not use Rotation. He have already established starting 11. Even 7 bench players if all are fit. I can tell you all 18 of them anytime. And he change few player when others are injured, suspended or can burn out because of playing too much. He should call it substitutions, not rotation. He does not use rotation. Mancini on other hand was really using rotation and many more players were involved to the end of the season as possible starters. There are two completely diferent approaches.
4) Strikers can hardly score without midfield, true. But Aguero, Ibrahimovic, Tevez can get the ball far from the goal. They can dribble past 1,2,3 players and create chance for their selfs and score. Dzeko ( and Negredo ) are too dependable on quality assist from midfield. They can not dribble past 2 players and score. If midfield would look for Dzeko in whole game and assist him quality passes he would be 20 goals + player in any team, league. Similar goes for Negredo. City have so many other options and Dzeko played so little PL games. He would never achieve anywhere near his potentials ( 20+ league goals ).

1. where are you getting this from?
2. If you don't think Pellegrini rotates you're certifiable, knowing your best 11 and rotation aren't mutually exclusive
3. Aguero Tevez and Ibra (Ibrahimovic? Dribble with the fucking ball???!!!) run past 3 players and score about as often as Dzeko scores from 35-40 yards. Tevez did it once or twice in his entire time at city, aguero doesn't take players on often enough and ibra will pass and move every time before dribbling.

 

[Matty]

Everyone is eltitled to their own opinion. That doesn't mean that everyone's opinion is correct, or that it should be respected.

When someone uses phrases like "Negredo will never be fast player with great workrate" when Negredo is both fast AND has great workrate, or when they say things like "Put him in Tottenham team. He would not be much better than Soldado was/is" when Spurs were clearly crying out for a Negredo style player when AVB was playing Soldado up top on his own (and asking him to do all the things that come naturally to Negredo) then I have to conclude that everything thay say about this matter is wrong, and that they don't really understand what they're talking about.

There are some "things" which I just can not agree with.

1) In first 5 games Negredos workrate was briliant. He even closed/was chasing 4 out of 5 defenders. His workrate in last 5 games was much worse. He did not run as much, he was preserving his energy. He was chasing/closing down 1 out of 5 defenders. If anyone try to forget on his briliant workrate of first games, and actually try to concentrate in his last games would see the diference. ( he does not run that much ).

If, and I'm not convinced it has, Negredo's workrate has dropped off in his last 5 games, might I suggest it's due to us playing 10 game sin the last month, as opposed to 10 games being 2.5 months worth of football as is the norm. Potentially the drop in workrate isn't due to Negredo not beign a player who puts in the effort, but is more due to the short recovery time between games?

2) Negredo is not fast player. He is heavy striker. He will never be fast as for example are: Aguero, Suarez, Sturridge, anywhere near that. He is more similar to Dzeko. They have occasional speed bursts. I have seen a lot of chances this year where Narsi, Navas, Silva was up front and waiting Dzeko AND/OR Negredo to come to the box. Especialy when they have to run from defending a corner to opposite side box. Aguero was up there with SIlva, Nasri and Navas waiting for Dzeko,Negredo.

Just because Negredo isn't as fast as Aguero doesn't mean he's not fast himself. You are wrong when you say he isn't quick, in fact I've been surprised at quite how quick Negredo actually is. I don't really understand the term "heavy striker".

3) As for Tottenham it is true. Soldado with Silva and Navas support would probably score more goals. Negredo without SIlva and Navas would score far less in this team.

Yes, that's true. However it's also not even remotely what you previously said. You said if we put Negredo in the Spurs team he'd perform as badly as Soldado was/is doing. That's simply not true. AVB played a lone striker system and asked the striker to lead the line, hold up the ball, link play, etc. Negredo does ALL of these things better than Soldado does and as such your assertion is demonstratively wrong.

4) You have also said something like Dzeko had 10 starts, Negredo 9 Away. It is not true.
PL AWAY GAMES ( Dzeko 5 starts , 411 min. 2 goals; Negredo 7 starts . 555 min, 1 goal ). HOME + AWAY PL GAMES Negredo had played 450 PL min +. And will play much more in second part of the season. Dzeko with that extra 450 min would score somethinig similar to that Negredos extra 4 PL goals. And would contributed in other ways of course. I agree football is not just about scoring, even beeing a striker. Two ( Newcastle, Blackburn ) out of three Negredos away goals were assisted by Dzeko. So Dzeko does not ONLY score goals, does he.

No, it IS TRUE. The reason it IS TRUE is simple, I looked it up. Your insistance on just considering league games is the issue here. I said Dzeko had started 10 away games, Negredo had started 9 away games, that is a fact. At no point did I say I was limiting my stats to league games, why would I? Do cup games not count? Your assertion that Dzeko would score 4 more goals if he'd been given the extra pitch time is pure speculation

5) I just think you dont see Dzeko as great player just a solid one. Which is a normal thing. Every person have theirs preferenced players. Some like tall strikers, some smaller but quicker. But on other hand. You seems to glorify everything manager does ( ok not everything but 95% ) and think Negredo is better player than he really is. Why was Bayern for instance going for Dzeko and not Negredo ? Why Barcelona, Real M. or Atletico M. were not going for Negredo. Believe me if he would be striker without almost any flaws like Suarez, Aguero, Ibrahimovic, Cavani, Falcao, Lewandowski and others are. They would bought him long time ago. Like they are going after all this mentioned players. So I ask you. What do you think what are flaws in Negredos games that he was not bought by this clubs. Or why he did not succeed at Real M. Almost every player have his flaws. But on this forum it seems like Negredo is without one.

You're right, I do think Dzeko is ok, but not great, and I'm not alone in that assessment. My opinions on Pellegrini aren't really relevant here, but I'd challenge you to find too many posts where I've been enthusing about him. I like his style of play (more so than I did Mancini's) and think he's making more good decisions than bad, but he's still made errors in his time at City. Negredo is a better player than I thought he was going to be, and with 15 goals by early January in his debut season I don't think I'm overrating him at all. No-one is saying Negredo is on a par with Cavani, Ibrahimovic or Falcao, but neither is Dzeko. Negredo cost us just shy of £20m, Cavani went to PSG for over twice that. Value for money wise I think we got the better deal. As for why othe clubs didn't want him, well Barca went for Neymar, and Real spent £100m on Bale, they had their targets. Atletico Madrid probably didn't have the money, they are more a selling club than buying, and could get Villa for far cheaper. Bayern probably wanted Dzeko as he has Bundesliga experience, and they hope they can make him the striker he was 3 years ago, not the striker he is now. Asking why Negredo didn't suceed at Real Madrid is harsh in the extreme, he was much younger, he developed later in life as a top striker, and he was competing against the best players money can buy. Real aren't Barca, they don't really bring too many youth products through, they spend £80m on Ronaldo, or £100m on Bale instead. Of course Negredo has flaws, they just aren't as many, or as detrimental to his contribution to City as Dzeko's are. Negredo's right foot isn't brilliant for example. However, when measured up against Dzeko then Negredo has far more going for him.

As for Dzeko beeing booed or not, I could not care less. People are running off real issues just to write about not important booing. He is professional footballer and he should deal with it. I think he is much much more hurt because of his status in this team. Of course IF he was booed he can tell fans to shut up. But his main frustration is for not playing enough. He would not lose any sleep for being booed. Maybe he will react more angry to it. So he can throw his main frustration ( not playing ) out of himself.

I agree, the booing (or, more accurately, the lack thereof) is not really relevant here. I'm sure Dzeko is frustrated, and annoyed, about his limited gametime, but ultimately there's only one person who can do anything abotu that, and it's Edin himself. He has it within him to demonstrate to Pellegrini that he deserves more gametime, and as a City fan I'd be delighted if he stepped up, played great football and forced Pellegrini to start him more often, a striker playing very well for City can only be beneficial for us and our chances of winning. The fact it's now January and he finds himself as the 3rd striker and not getting the time on the pitch he craves is down to his poor displays and nothing else. Pellegrini is a football manager, why would he decide to simply leave a player out with no reason? He selects the team he feels gives us the best chance to win and, more often than not, that team doesn't include Dzeko. You'll find the vast majority of City fans are in agreement.

 

[aguero93:20]

IN ALL COMPETITIONS BAKA: (since we play in 4 competitions every year, don't you know.)
Negredo 17 appearances, 15 goals from 62 shots, 5 assists.
Dzeko 16 appearances, 10 goals from 70 shots, 3 assists.
As you can see here MP is clearly raping Dzeko for game time and opportunities on the field as he's earned a starting place ahead of Dzeko.

<a class="postlink" href="http://espnfc.com/team/squad/_/id/382/league/all/manchester-city?cc=5739" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://espnfc.com/team/squad/_/id/382/l ... ty?cc=5739</a>

 

[Anonymous]

1. where are you getting this from?
2. If you don't think Pellegrini rotates you're certifiable, knowing your best 11 and rotation aren't mutually exclusive
3. Aguero Tevez and Ibra (Ibrahimovic? Dribble with the fucking ball???!!!) run past 3 players and score about as often as Dzeko scores from 35-40 yards. Tevez did it once or twice in his entire time at city, aguero doesn't take players on often enough and ibra will pass and move every time before dribbling.

1) My stats are to a minute accurate. So yor where wrong. Negredo had played more in PL away games 140 min + and have started 2 more PL away games ( Negredo 7, Dzeko just 5 ). In home PL games of course a lot more. But we were talknig about away games. It is a big question would Dzeko start any of his last two PL away games if Aguero was fit. So in this point you were wrong.
2) I agree knowing his best 11 does not mean that you dont rotate. Pellegrini knows his first 11 ( + 7 subs ). BUT he stil does not rotate like Mancini did. He just make substitusions when they are needed. It is not rotation.
3) Ok maybe not past 3. But they can dribble past one and create and score for them self. Dzeko/Negredo can not and are much more dependable on theirs midfields quality assists.
4) I have not seen it before. You have said 1 remaning derbies ?? Derbies are Arsenal. Chelsea, Manchester united, Liverpool, Tootenham, Everton and Barcelona. Where do you see just one game ??

 

[aguero93:20]

1. where are you getting this from?
2. If you don't think Pellegrini rotates you're certifiable, knowing your best 11 and rotation aren't mutually exclusive
3. Aguero Tevez and Ibra (Ibrahimovic? Dribble with the fucking ball???!!!) run past 3 players and score about as often as Dzeko scores from 35-40 yards. Tevez did it once or twice in his entire time at city, aguero doesn't take players on often enough and ibra will pass and move every time before dribbling.

1) My stats are to a minute accurate. So yor where wrong. Negredo had played more in PL away games 140 min + and have started 2 more PL away games ( Negredo 7, Dzeko just 5 ). In home PL games of course a lot more. But we were talknig about away games. It is a big question would Dzeko start any of his last two PL away games if Aguero was fit. So in this point you were wrong.
2) I agree knowing his best 11 does not mean that you dont rotate. Pellegrini knows his first 11 ( + 7 subs ). BUT he stil does not rotate like Mancini did. He just make substitusions when they are needed. It is not rotation.
3) Ok maybe not past 3. But they can dribble past one and create and score for them self. Dzeko/Negredo can not and are much more dependable on theirs midfields quality assists.
4) I did not seen it before. You have said 1 remaning derbies ?? Derbies are Arsenal. Chelsea, Manchester united, Liverpool, Tootenham, Everton and Barcelona. Where do you see just one game ??

where are you getting it from?
By the way, what makes negredo a heavy striker? since you love bringing up tenuously relevant facts, Negredo weighs 79kg, Dzeko 84kg according to whoscored.com
And negredo has plenty of skill when he needs to beat a player, did you miss his goals against munich and spurs?

 

[Matty]

1. where are you getting this from?
2. If you don't think Pellegrini rotates you're certifiable, knowing your best 11 and rotation aren't mutually exclusive
3. Aguero Tevez and Ibra (Ibrahimovic? Dribble with the fucking ball???!!!) run past 3 players and score about as often as Dzeko scores from 35-40 yards. Tevez did it once or twice in his entire time at city, aguero doesn't take players on often enough and ibra will pass and move every time before dribbling.

1) My stats are to a minute accurate. So yor where wrong. Negredo had played more in PL away games 140 min + and have started 2 more PL away games ( Negredo 7, Dzeko just 5 ). In home PL games of course a lot more. But we were talknig about away games. It is a big question would Dzeko start any of his last two PL away games if Aguero was fit. So in this point you were wrong.
2) I agree knowing his best 11 does not mean that you dont rotate. Pellegrini knows his first 11 ( + 7 subs ). BUT he stil does not rotate like Mancini did. He just make substitusions when they are needed. It is not rotation.3) Ok maybe not past 3. But they can dribble past one and create and score for them self. Dzeko/Negredo can not and are much more dependable on theirs midfields quality assists.
4) I have not seen it before. You have said 1 remaning derbies ?? Derbies are Arsenal. Chelsea, Manchester united, Liverpool, Tootenham, Everton and Barcelona. Where do you see just one game ??

Sorry, but that's just not right.

Look at the midfield for example (figures are ALL starts and NOT sub appearances):-

Fernandinho 28
Navas 16
Milner 12
Nasri 19
Silva 16
Garcia 13
Yaya 23

Of our 2 left back options:-

Kolarov 17
Clichy 14

Pellegrini quite clearly DOES rotate his players.

 

[aguero93:20]

1. where are you getting this from?
2. If you don't think Pellegrini rotates you're certifiable, knowing your best 11 and rotation aren't mutually exclusive
3. Aguero Tevez and Ibra (Ibrahimovic? Dribble with the fucking ball???!!!) run past 3 players and score about as often as Dzeko scores from 35-40 yards. Tevez did it once or twice in his entire time at city, aguero doesn't take players on often enough and ibra will pass and move every time before dribbling.

1) My stats are to a minute accurate. So yor where wrong. Negredo had played more in PL away games 140 min + and have started 2 more PL away games ( Negredo 7, Dzeko just 5 ). In home PL games of course a lot more. But we were talknig about away games. It is a big question would Dzeko start any of his last two PL away games if Aguero was fit. So in this point you were wrong.
2) I agree knowing his best 11 does not mean that you dont rotate. Pellegrini knows his first 11 ( + 7 subs ). BUT he stil does not rotate like Mancini did. He just make substitusions when they are needed. It is not rotation.3) Ok maybe not past 3. But they can dribble past one and create and score for them self. Dzeko/Negredo can not and are much more dependable on theirs midfields quality assists.
4) I have not seen it before. You have said 1 remaning derbies ?? Derbies are Arsenal. Chelsea, Manchester united, Liverpool, Tootenham, Everton and Barcelona. Where do you see just one game ??

Sorry, but that's just not right.

Look at the midfield for example (figures are ALL starts and NOT sub appearances):-

Fernandinho 28
Navas 16
Milner 12
Nasri 19
Silva 16
Garcia 13
Yaya 23

Of our 2 left back options:-

Kolarov 17
Clichy 14

Pellegrini quite clearly DOES rotate his players.

Other Defenders:
Zaba 20
Nasty 15
Kompany 14
Lescott 13
Demichelis 12
Richards 7

Strikers:
Aguero 19
Negredo 17
Dzeko 16

Terribly injust the amount of time some players aren't getting isn't it?

 

[Damocles]

Y
It's this Puppet character that hides behind City fans by using 'we, us' vs them, bad mouthing Dzeko and Bosnians in general (or whoever has a different opinion to his). What's behind it, I don't know, but the fact that on the BM Home Page in the forum section, there is always Dzeko among recent posts, and more likely than not, Puppet as a poster, must mean something. Man crush, stalking, maybe he is even Bosnian whose girlfriend or sister Dzeko dated but refused to marry, don't know. I am sure modern medicine has a name for it, and perhaps, cure. No disrespect, just trying to help.

So please stop using us, we,..., asking for facts or evidence without ever providing any. Sometimes problems are of emotional nature, not factual, so numbers here will not help.

Puppet is correct using "we" and "us". We are City fans who support a club that is a hundred and odd years old, most of "us" have supported it from childhood and will continue to do so well past retirement. It is a football club but also a community. The humour in the Cellar is different from anywhere else on the internet because it is essentially a laddish Mancunian humour, mainly because the forum grew up around Mancunian lads going to the game and having somewhere to vent or Mancunian lads who used to go to the games and moved away still keeping in touch.

He uses "we" because we all use "we". We think of City fans and Bluemooners as one general collective and you really see this best when we lose one of our own.

There is a "we" on this site and there is a "you". We are the City fans who will be here for the rest of our lives, "you" are fans interested in a single player who happens to play for City and will mostly piss off in the summer. Then you'll go to another club's forums and create all of the problems that you have created here, incessantly whinging about how your favourite player is mistreated because he's actually stuck in below par performances for about 3 years. "You" have made our silly little community a more argumentative and shit place to post in the entire time that Dzeko has been here and you've created the rods for you own backs in your attitudes to City and its fans.

It's not that I don't like Bosnians, I'm not sure I could even find Bosnia on a map to be honest, it's that I don't like non-City fans who come on here with a single issue and make the place worse for others. If I had my way we would have banned all of these people as WUMs about two years ago, and I don't ban anyone. Be thankful that Ric is a much fairer and straight minded person than I.

Now you complain that a City fan uses the words "us" and "we", something that every City fan and indeed every football fan has done for the past 100 years without a problem. You see, we argue all the time here. There's a couple of posters that wound me up so much that I wanted to bleeding throttle them and I'm sure many can say the same about me. There was however an understanding that whilst we wound each other up, it was both because we passionately believed that whatever we were saying was the correct course of action for City, the club that we both love. We both wanted what is best for City and we often disagree on what that is.

"You" don't however. You want what is best for Edin Dzeko which does not always correspond to what is best for Manchester City. Considering that you're on a City site and not a Dzeko site, this is why there is friction. If the decision for you was for Dzeko to score 5 goals in a CL Final and lose 6-5 or be dropped completely and win 5-0, we think you'd choose the former which is why people aren't very welcoming. You don't want the same thing as us, our goals might align at times but it's never good enough unless Dzeko plays every game, and the team gets built around him, and everybody gives him the ball on every occasion, and eve then it's not his fault if he doesn't perform. Most of you go to other sites and ruthlessly slag off City and City fans. In this thread one of you is making false claims that City fans booed one of their own players, which if you didn't know is one of those things that's a wee bit insulting for some who take that type of thing seriously.

Summer will come and almost all of you will drop off posting. A year after that, when we're still singing his name as one of the heroes of modern City, you'll be on some other club's fansite using the same tired arguments you've used here for years and having a whole different set of fans find you as annoying as we do.

 

[Matty]

1) My stats are to a minute accurate. So yor where wrong. Negredo had played more in PL away games 140 min + and have started 2 more PL away games ( Negredo 7, Dzeko just 5 ). In home PL games of course a lot more. But we were talknig about away games. It is a big question would Dzeko start any of his last two PL away games if Aguero was fit. So in this point you were wrong.
2) I agree knowing his best 11 does not mean that you dont rotate. Pellegrini knows his first 11 ( + 7 subs ). BUT he stil does not rotate like Mancini did. He just make substitusions when they are needed. It is not rotation.3) Ok maybe not past 3. But they can dribble past one and create and score for them self. Dzeko/Negredo can not and are much more dependable on theirs midfields quality assists.
4) I have not seen it before. You have said 1 remaning derbies ?? Derbies are Arsenal. Chelsea, Manchester united, Liverpool, Tootenham, Everton and Barcelona. Where do you see just one game ??

Sorry, but that's just not right.

Look at the midfield for example (figures are ALL starts and NOT sub appearances):-

Fernandinho 28
Navas 16
Milner 12
Nasri 19
Silva 16
Garcia 13
Yaya 23

Of our 2 left back options:-

Kolarov 17
Clichy 14

Pellegrini quite clearly DOES rotate his players.

Other Defenders:
Zaba 20
Nasty 15
Kompany 14
Lescott 13
Demichelis 12
Richards 7

Strikers:
Aguero 19
Negredo 17
Dzeko 16

Terribly injust the amount of time some players aren't getting isn't it?

I didn't use the central defenders/right back and the forwards as, due to injuries, these positions have been more about who is actually fit to play than who should be rotated into the team. For example, Kompany would likely be in the mid 20's in terms of starts if he'd been fit, as would Aguero.

 

[aguero93:20]

Sorry, but that's just not right.

Look at the midfield for example (figures are ALL starts and NOT sub appearances):-

Fernandinho 28
Navas 16
Milner 12
Nasri 19
Silva 16
Garcia 13
Yaya 23

Of our 2 left back options:-

Kolarov 17
Clichy 14

Pellegrini quite clearly DOES rotate his players.

Other Defenders:
Zaba 20
Nasty 15
Kompany 14
Lescott 13
Demichelis 12
Richards 7

Strikers:
Aguero 19
Negredo 17
Dzeko 16

Terribly injust the amount of time some players aren't getting isn't it?

I didn't use the central defenders/right back and the forwards as, due to injuries, these positions have been more about who is actually fit to play than who should be rotated into the team. For example, Kompany would likely be in the mid 20's in terms of starts if he'd been fit, as would Aguero.

Fair enough I was thinking that myself. You made a very good point with the midfield, I'm struggling to remember mancini straying too far from the barry/yaya combination over the last 2 seasons unless enforced and tbf he was the same with aguero/tevez for long periods last year, when both were fit both played, so mancini rotating more? don't think so.

 

[Anonymous]

1) If, and I'm not convinced it has, Negredo's workrate has dropped off in his last 5 games, might I suggest it's due to us playing 10 game sin the last month, as opposed to 10 games being 2.5 months worth of football as is the norm. Potentially the drop in workrate isn't due to Negredo not beign a player who puts in the effort, but is more due to the short recovery time between games?

2) Just because Negredo isn't as fast as Aguero doesn't mean he's not fast himself. You are wrong when you say he isn't quick, in fact I've been surprised at quite how quick Negredo actually is. I don't really understand the term "heavy striker".

3) Yes, that's true. However it's also not even remotely what you previously said. You said if we put Negredo in the Spurs team he'd perform as badly as Soldado was/is doing. That's simply not true. AVB played a lone striker system and asked the striker to lead the line, hold up the ball, link play, etc. Negredo does ALL of these things better than Soldado does and as such your assertion is demonstratively wrong.

4) No, it IS TRUE. The reason it IS TRUE is simple, I looked it up. Your insistance on just considering league games is the issue here. I said Dzeko had started 10 away games, Negredo had started 9 away games, that is a fact. At no point did I say I was limiting my stats to league games, why would I? Do cup games not count? Your assertion that Dzeko would score 4 more goals if he'd been given the extra pitch time is pure speculation

5) You're right, I do think Dzeko is ok, but not great, and I'm not alone in that assessment. My opinions on Pellegrini aren't really relevant here, but I'd challenge you to find too many posts where I've been enthusing about him. I like his style of play (more so than I did Mancini's) and think he's making more good decisions than bad, but he's still made errors in his time at City. Negredo is a better player than I thought he was going to be, and with 15 goals by early January in his debut season I don't think I'm overrating him at all. No-one is saying Negredo is on a par with Cavani, Ibrahimovic or Falcao, but neither is Dzeko. Negredo cost us just shy of £20m, Cavani went to PSG for over twice that. Value for money wise I think we got the better deal. As for why othe clubs didn't want him, well Barca went for Neymar, and Real spent £100m on Bale, they had their targets. Atletico Madrid probably didn't have the money, they are more a selling club than buying, and could get Villa for far cheaper. Bayern probably wanted Dzeko as he has Bundesliga experience, and they hope they can make him the striker he was 3 years ago, not the striker he is now. Asking why Negredo didn't suceed at Real Madrid is harsh in the extreme, he was much younger, he developed later in life as a top striker, and he was competing against the best players money can buy. Real aren't Barca, they don't really bring too many youth products through, they spend £80m on Ronaldo, or £100m on Bale instead. Of course Negredo has flaws, they just aren't as many, or as detrimental to his contribution to City as Dzeko's are. Negredo's right foot isn't brilliant for example. However, when measured up against Dzeko then Negredo has far more going for him.

6) I agree, the booing (or, more accurately, the lack thereof) is not really relevant here. I'm sure Dzeko is frustrated, and annoyed, about his limited gametime, but ultimately there's only one person who can do anything abotu that, and it's Edin himself. He has it within him to demonstrate to Pellegrini that he deserves more gametime, and as a City fan I'd be delighted if he stepped up, played great football and forced Pellegrini to start him more often, a striker playing very well for City can only be beneficial for us and our chances of winning. The fact it's now January and he finds himself as the 3rd striker and not getting the time on the pitch he craves is down to his poor displays and nothing else. Pellegrini is a football manager, why would he decide to simply leave a player out with no reason? He selects the team he feels gives us the best chance to win and, more often than not, that team doesn't include Dzeko. You'll find the vast majority of City fans are in agreement.

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1) I agree to some extent. Time will tell is his lower workrate because of beeing tired/injued or he is not capable of giving that workrate in all the season
2) Negredo and Dzeko are not pacey strikers. They can have speed bursts. And than they conserve their energy. They will never run all the time. Aguero, Suarez, Sturridge have greater speed AND can run for greater distance . Dzeko and Negredo become tired before those pacey strikers. Remember that Dzekos speed burst vs Arsenal. So Dzeko also can be speedy.
3) I agree
4) I agree. But Dzeko would probably score in that 450 + PL min something around 4 goals ( 3,4,5, ).
5) I agree on all. Except this sentence. Negredo's right foot isn't brilliant for example. However, when measured up against Dzeko then Negredo has far more going for him. He can have slightly more. When you say far more it looks like he is far better striker which he is not. Negredo is not a class of other strikers you have. mentioned. And both Dzeko and Negredo are 20+ goals striker in majority of all teams.
6) I can agree. But I will still think that Pellegrini have had his pre-preferences of some players before the season. And that his plan was to have two start and two subs strikers from the beginning. Of course it can look that now Dzeko is rightly off the team. But it is not so simple. Some managers prefere 1 inform striker + a lot infrom midfielder ( Mourinho, Guardiola, .. ). Some play with 2 inform strikers + sub strikers. sir Alex, Pellegrini, .. Some want more than 2 inform strikers Mancini, .... . Pellegrini just wanted two consistant starters. Just look how many times. He could bring Dzeko in when game was almost finish. Like Mancini did and from 2:4 ended 2:6 against United. City vs Arsenal,Swansea, Norwich and Tottenham. Were great opportunities do give Dzeko last 30 min, game was finished long time ago. In those games Dzeko would score 2,3,4 goals. Would have now around 7,8 PL goals instead of 4 and everything would be great. Dzeko would be in better form than he is now. Now he is a player under big preassure of most scoring. But this manager had decided to close the game down. It looks like that he does not want players fighting for second striker place. Why ?? Well you have to know that sometimes preassue of must scoring ( now Dzeko ) and if Dzeko managed to score some goals Negredo is not good for striker. When they have their place secured ( dont have to worry about bench ) they play the best. And believe me Pellegrini knows this very much.

 

[Puppet Master Silva]

I'm not sure if that last paragraph was aimed at me but can I make it clear that I like Edin...he frustrates me but I like him and think he's a great striker.

There is no need for booing players. I was just trying to make the point that non-city fans on this forum should not slag off actual city fans on this forum because of what they read in the papers. Fair enough you have given actual evidence but as people have already posted, the actions of one or two supporters don't account for every city fan. Unfortunately some fan boys can't see reason.

You're cool, providing arguments and all.

It's this Puppet character that hides behind City fans by using 'we, us' vs them, bad mouthing Dzeko and Bosnians in general (or whoever has a different opinion to his). What's behind it, I don't know, but the fact that on the BM Home Page in the forum section, there is always Dzeko among recent posts, and more likely than not, Puppet as a poster, must mean something. Man crush, stalking, maybe he is even Bosnian whose girlfriend or sister Dzeko dated but refused to marry, don't know. I am sure modern medicine has a name for it, and perhaps, cure. No disrespect, just trying to help.

So please stop using us, we,..., asking for facts or evidence without ever providing any. Sometimes problems are of emotional nature, not factual, so numbers here will not help.

Go and find an example of me referring to the City fan base as us/me, please. 50% of your posts are in the Dzeko forum if you're wondering, the others slagging off Negredo.

And if I do occasionally use the phrase "us" or "we" it's probably because I'm at games with City fans every week and regularly sharing views with them. I'm not just a JCL who's supported us since 2012 (you).

edit: Christ I've just seen Damocles make the point I was but doing it a lot better, apologies.

 

[aguero93:20]

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1) I agree to some extent. Time will tell is his lower workrate because of beeing tired/injued or he is not capable of giving that workrate in all the season
2) Negredo and Dzeko are not pacey strikers. They can have speed bursts. And than they conserve their energy. They will never run all the time. Aguero, Suarez, Sturridge have greater speed AND can run for greater distance . Dzeko and Negredo become tired before those pacey strikers. Remember that Dzekos speed burst vs Arsenal. So Dzeko also can be speedy.
3) I agree
4) I agree. But Dzeko would probably score in that 450 + PL min something around 4 goals ( 3,4,5, ).
5) I agree on all. Except this sentence. Negredo's right foot isn't brilliant for example. However, when measured up against Dzeko then Negredo has far more going for him. He can have slightly more. When you say far more it looks like he is far better striker which he is not. Negredo is not a class of other strikers you have. mentioned. And both Dzeko and Negredo are 20+ goals striker in majority of all teams.
6) I can agree. But I will still think that Pellegrini have had his pre-preferences of some players before the season. And that his plan was to have two start and two subs strikers from the beginning. Of course it can look that now Dzeko is rightly off the team. But it is not so simple. Some managers prefere 1 inform striker + a lot infrom midfielder ( Mourinho, Guardiola, .. ). Some play with 2 inform strikers + sub strikers. sir Alex, Pellegrini, .. Some want more than 2 inform strikers Mancini, .... . Pellegrini just wanted two consistant starters. Just look how many times. He could bring Dzeko in when game was almost finish. Like Mancini did and from 2:4 ended 2:6 against United. City vs Arsenal,Swansea, Norwich and Tottenham. Were great opportunities do give Dzeko last 30 min, gane was finished long time ago. In those games Dzeko would score 2,3,4 goals. Would have now around 7,8 PL goals instead of 4 and everything would be great. But this manager had decided to close the game down. It looks like that he does not want players fighting for second striker place. Why ?? Well you have to know that sometimes preassue of must scoring ( now Dzeko ) and if Dzeko managed to score some Negredo is not good for striker. When they have their place secured ( dont have to worry about bench ) they play the best. And believe me Pellegrini knows this very much.

You're still ignoring the fact that in all competitions Dzeko is way behind negredo in terms of shot conversion and goals scored. since he's also been playing the wigans, leicesters etc in the lc, there's no excuse, unless you think being less effective against weak opposition makes you better than being more effective against good opposition.
Btw at real vallacano and at sevilla Negredos workrate from one end of the season to the other was very high and very consistent (or so I'm told by a sevilla season ticket holder, doubtless of course that you know better than she does), personally I've seen zero sign that his workrate has dropped, but even if it has I'm more than willing to accept that as it's his first experience of dealing with the English xmas football schedule.