Electric cars

SiMCFC said:
Im genuinely thinking of treating myself to an I4 (I know... BMW wanker) the 2/3 year old ones are an absolute steal, saw one Yesterday with 6k on it at £26k and it was a beautiful bit of kit, couldn't justify the road tax at £620 on a newer one, plus the huge depreciation.

I was offered a company car but if its my own can claim 45p a mile for the first 10k rather than the nominal rate of 7p

Charging at home for 7p a kwh it should virtually pay for its self over 3 years and then its a bloody cheap car to run if its still ok!
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They are unbelievable money used. First BMW i would have. You are not wrong about almost paying for themselves if you can home charge. The road tax is unfortunate. I heard there might be some changes coming though. "Petrol Ped" on Youtube has said something about possible changes.
 
fulabeer said:
Compared to just a few ago, they are. But there are gaps. The weird thing is, petrol stations have been shutting down for years. Depending on where you live, you can have a real drive just to find one. There are now more EV chargers than petrol stations. Yet nobody here has pointed it out.

Anybody can make an EV work. It just takes adjustments to what you are used to.
Personally, i wouldn't have an EV yet if i couldn't charge at home. I seriously considered a plug in hybrid for a long while. It would have worked great for the missus. She would have been commuting mainly on battery power. I realised that i would be paying for two systems to maintain/service. Also two systems to go wrong.
We made the right choice with the right car for us. Your circumstances may be different.

"There are 8380 petrol stations"
"As of June 2025, the UK has over 82,000 electric vehicle charging points across 40,479 locations"
These include various charging speeds, from slow to ultra-rapid, and are located at diverse locations like motorway service stations, retail parks, and supermarkets.
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My gripe with electric cars is that in a few years that's all we'll be able to buy new. The charging infrastructure is pitiful and I wouldn't be surprised if it's the same 10 years down the road.
Regarding the nearest charger to me being 2 miles away I could put my bike in the boot, cycle home wait a few hours, cycle back and collect the car, it's complete nonsense. Warrington is a major town and there are hardly any public chargers, that's where we're at.
 
SiMCFC said:
They look and drive fantastic! Do you know if your battery has degraded much in the time you've had it? My main concern buying used is that it may have been charged 0% to 100% and caused battery wear but it's only the same as buying a petrol/diesel that someone has caned up and down the motorway!

Do you do business mileage? Our salary sacrifice scheme (via Novuna) is a lease scheme and unfortunately classes the vehicle as a company car so you can then only claim the lower rate for mileage... I think that is right anyway.
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Not noticed any degradation at all and I charge it to 100 most of the time. Test drove the polestar, Tesla, byd and the i4 and it was the i4 by a mile for me.

I do business mileage, can’t actually remember what the rate is though! I get subsidised charging at work as well as having a pod point at home that I charge overnight for very cheap so I’m up either way.
 
I've done just over 4000 miles since getting my Enyaq at the end of March. Charged at home for 7p kW and car is easy doing 4mpkw so cost me less than £70.

Going to Cornwall in mid September and haven't yet used a public charger. My plan is Gloucester services for a quick toilet break and top up then on to another Tesla supercharger just off the motorway near Exeter. After another short top up on to to where I'm staying near Newquay. Lucky for me there's a tesla supercharger 4 mile from where I'm staying so can charge at 40p kW after 8pm. The other ones I plan to use are 50p.

Going to give blood in the next week or so so I'm planning to use the tesla supercharger next to the ground to make sure I know how to charge.
 
fulabeer said:
I think plug-in Hybrid might be your best option. Especially if there isn't an ICE option in your household.
There is still plenty of years (ten?) left before we are EV only. I'm not sure why some are getting so upset about it.
So when you only do short trips, you can take advantage of cheap overnight electric rates. Longer trips revert to petrol.

By the time EV's are the only option, we should be so far along that nobody cares. And even then, nothing is stopping you keeping an ICE car. I think infrastructure (petrol stations/parts) will be the limiting factors.

Most of the stuff mooted battery wise are "best case". Real world can be vastly different. That's why we need more than we need etc. The fastest charging times are with technology that we don't even have over here yet.
Some batteries aren't affected by cold (sodium?), some can charge to 100% all the time without bother. Therefore hybrid battery tech is being trialled. Best of both worlds etc.

My EV does 280 bookwise. Yet that can drop to 200 in winter with short commuting and the heater/seats/steering wheel full blast. Yet two weeks ago in the hot weather (with aircon) on a long run i got 300 miles on a full charge.
So the stuff i post is just saying better things are coming. Real world i would guess we are at 350 miles.

I've been here so many times before. First it was when i changed to digital cameras/projectors.
I was on a few forums, and was ridiculed for daring to say they had many advantages. The film/CRT guys took great delight in pointing out the flaws and bigging up analogue. It's what they knew, it was what they trusted.
Yet one by one they all converted. Leaving only the true diehards wittering to themselves how we were all idiots.

I get change is hard for some. I get that new isn't always better, at least at first. Film/CRT projectors had many advantages, but digital eventually won out. Same with flat screen TV's. No CRT TV was going to offer 4K and 120hz with perfect geometry and sharpness. I even had some loons saying those huge blurry rear projection TVs had a better picture than Pioneer plasma's FFS!
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Thank for your reply fulabeer, it is appreciated. The difference with this change is that we are all being forced to by evs. No one was forced to buy a digital camera or flat screen TV as they sold themselves.
 
Churchlawtonblue said:
Thank for your reply fulabeer, it is appreciated. The difference with this change is that we are all being forced to by evs. No one was forced to buy a digital camera or flat screen TV as they sold themselves.
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I agree it is being forced. But not without good reason.
We are over reliant on fossil fuels (middle east stability affecting prices), and the impact on air quality is real.

Without a little push, people are reluctant to change. So we need incentives to get the ball rolling. A time limited period also got manufacturers focussed. What actually happened was a complete shit show government wise. Also, letting charge stations do what they wanted has lead to confusing payment methods and massively varying charge prices.
Early adopters often pay more and get a poorer product. But you have to start somewhere.
Things are getting better, but not perfect yet.

Some big oil players/countries have a lot to lose when EV take over. So they flooded the internet with misinformation and anti EV propaganda. I fell for it at first. I loved my ICE cars, and early EV's where quite poor. Tesla changed things.
They knew people needed fast chargers, and that the cars had to be good. Free charging really helped. Others are playing catch up.

I was only on here to dismiss mis-information (and learn more about EV's), not convince people they should buy an EV. Some posters don't even know what they are talking about. They are anti EV and don't even know why.
In the end i bought one and couldn't believe just how good it was. So i want others to see what i'm talking about.
It's a shame people are missing out because of misinformation.
 
fulabeer said:
I agree it is being forced. But not without good reason.
We are over reliant on fossil fuels (middle east stability affecting prices), and the impact on air quality is real.

Without a little push, people are reluctant to change. So we need incentives to get the ball rolling. A time limited period also got manufacturers focussed. What actually happened was a complete shit show government wise. Also, letting charge stations do what they wanted has lead to confusing payment methods and massively varying charge prices.
Early adopters often pay more and get a poorer product. But you have to start somewhere.
Things are getting better, but not perfect yet.

Some big oil players/countries have a lot to lose when EV take over. So they flooded the internet with misinformation and anti EV propaganda. I fell for it at first. I loved my ICE cars, and early EV's where quite poor. Tesla changed things.
They knew people needed fast chargers, and that the cars had to be good. Free charging really helped. Others are playing catch up.

I was only on here to dismiss mis-information (and learn more about EV's), not convince people they should buy an EV. Some posters don't even know what they are talking about. They are anti EV and don't even know why.
In the end i bought one and couldn't believe just how good it was. So i want others to see what i'm talking about.
It's a shame people are missing out because of misinformation.
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I'm honestly not sure if I'd consider an EV even if the electricity was all paid for.

If you can't charge at home then they're in my mind massively inferior to what we have. All the messing around waiting hours for your car to charge, faffing with all the different apps, getting to a charger and finding it doesn't work, queuing for the chargers etc. It sounds like a massive pain the arse.

Found about these earlier. The power to the wheels comes from the electric motors alone. So you'd get the instant torque like a full fat EV. The big advantage is that there's a petrol generator that charges the battery and runs the electric motor so there's no need to charge it up anywhere. It basically works how diesel trains work. I.e it's not the engine directly linked to the wheels as such but via it powering electric motors instead.

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qu's for electric car owners & experts:

1) Do electric cars generally 'break down' less than combustion engine cars?
2) Are garages generally ok taking them in for fixes? or is it only a niche subset of mechanics that tend to work on them?
3) If problems occur, are the outlays comparable to combustion engine cars? a lot worse?

thanks
 
shemnel said:
qu's for electric car owners & experts:

1) Do electric cars generally 'break down' less than combustion engine cars?
2) Are garages generally ok taking them in for fixes? or is it only a niche subset of mechanics that tend to work on them?
3) If problems occur, are the outlays comparable to combustion engine cars? a lot worse?

thanks
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Anything can 'break down' for a variety of reasons but, electric cars have less parts that can fail, than an ICE vehicle.

Garages are typically well equipped to deal with electric cars, manufacturers have a service guide that is available to garages to download/train on etc. Services are generally cheaper with electric, as there are less parts to service/replace.

Outlays are subjective for many reasons. I'm not a mechanic but any failure to engine, cambelt etc can be expensive to replace. You don't have those issues with electric, but its does introduce other parts that can fail, such as the powertrain, battery etc which can be equally expensive if not more.

There's also common parts between electric and ICE that can fail or need replacement, brakes, brake pads etc. However, with most electric cars the regenerative breaking reduces how much you use your brakes, so they should last longer.

Having owned and driven ICE and electric for many years, I wouldn't put too much weight on cost/likelyhood of part failure to decide one way or the other. Both cars could be maintenance free for as long as you own them, both could cause you issues and expense, it's method of propulsion doesn't really make a difference. It's far more important to decide on what is best for you for your annual mileage, driving style, taste.
 
I would add most EV's now come with an extensive warranty on the motors and battery pack. Mine is six years drive motor, eight years battery pack. The new solid state batteries will allow a minimum 12 years warranty. They don't have gearboxes/clutches to go wrong/service. Some EV's do use a two step ratio adjuster though.

The research i did before buying seemed to indicate software/firmware glitches was the most common failures. The normal 12v battery can fail and should be changed every three years to prevent this. Then the battery charger control unit in the car. Traction motors can fail. The actual traction battery was the least thing that went wrong. Independant garages are popping up to deal with EV battery repairs for older EV's.

With EV's, failures tend to be specific components that fail. So repairs tend to only require that part to be changed.
With ICE, a single failure can take out the entire engine. Even routine repairs can lead to large bills due to needing replacement gaskets/pipes, and then fluids and oils. Just getting to some stuff can be a nightmare. You are constantly trying to keep oil and water were they need to be, and never for them to meet!

I know it is an extreme example, but my Audi SQ5 needed a timing chain, a gearbox service and rear diff service.
The car ran perfectly and had a full Audi service history. The chain was £4000 (Audi independant), and that was assuming the cam sprockets didn't need doing. That added another £4000 (it comes as a whole top end assembly). They recommended some plastic bits be changed while the engine was out, another £1000. The gearbox service was £600, the diff another £500.

I had already spent a few thousand the year before having a new serpent belt and harmonic pulley replaced (cracked rubber), and the whole intake system cleaned due to the direct injection engine. Injector seals can start leaking at 75k, so they had to be done. Then there was two rocker cover oil seals need replacing. So it had to go.

I really look after my cars. But modern cars with all the emission gear give you absolutely no chance. They are simply too complex to run on an ever depreciating asset. My future plans for ICE is going to to be something much older with a manual gearbox. And it will be for weekend use only!
 
fulabeer said:
I would add most EV's now come with an extensive warranty on the motors and battery pack. Mine is six years drive motor, eight years battery pack. The new solid state batteries will allow a minimum 12 years warranty. They don't have gearboxes/clutches to go wrong/service. Some EV's do use a two step ratio adjuster though.

The research i did before buying seemed to indicate software/firmware glitches was the most common failures. The normal 12v battery can fail and should be changed every three years to prevent this. Then the battery charger control unit in the car. Traction motors can fail. The actual traction battery was the least thing that went wrong. Independant garages are popping up to deal with EV battery repairs for older EV's.

With EV's, failures tend to be specific components that fail. So repairs tend to only require that part to be changed.
With ICE, a single failure can take out the entire engine. Even routine repairs can lead to large bills due to needing replacement gaskets/pipes, and then fluids and oils. Just getting to some stuff can be a nightmare. You are constantly trying to keep oil and water were they need to be, and never for them to meet!

I know it is an extreme example, but my Audi SQ5 needed a timing chain, a gearbox service and rear diff service.
The car ran perfectly and had a full Audi service history. The chain was £4000 (Audi independant), and that was assuming the cam sprockets didn't need doing. That added another £4000 (it comes as a whole top end assembly). They recommended some plastic bits be changed while the engine was out, another £1000. The gearbox service was £600, the diff another £500.

I had already spent a few thousand the year before having a new serpent belt and harmonic pulley replaced (cracked rubber), and the whole intake system cleaned due to the direct injection engine. Injector seals can start leaking at 75k, so they had to be done. Then there was two rocker cover oil seals need replacing. So it had to go.

I really look after my cars. But modern cars with all the emission gear give you absolutely no chance. They are simply too complex to run on an ever depreciating asset. My future plans for ICE is going to to be something much older with a manual gearbox. And it will be for weekend use only!
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Wow that's expensive. Im just in the process of shopping for a new VW Passat. New to me. Circa 4 years old.

I can't do electric as I occasionally do 3 / 4 hour drives for work, I also visit my parents in Wales fairly often and that trip would also be at the max range of most. Shopping around it's clear to me that the 2nd hand market for EV and hybrid is awash with cars people don't want. Loads must be lease deals that make sense for business milage but for everyday practical use cheap ice cars still make far more sense.

But once the range increases a bit more and the infrastructure moves on I will happily make the switch. ICE car servicing is becoming a massive cost as you point out.
 
Gareth Barry Conlon said:
Wow that's expensive. Im just in the process of shopping for a new VW Passat. New to me. Circa 4 years old.

I can't do electric as I occasionally do 3 / 4 hour drives for work, I also visit my parents in Wales fairly often and that trip would also be at the max range of most. Shopping around it's clear to me that the 2nd hand market for EV and hybrid is awash with cars people don't want. Loads must be lease deals that make sense for business milage but for everyday practical use cheap ice cars still make far more sense.

But once the range increases a bit more and the infrastructure moves on I will happily make the switch. ICE car servicing is becoming a massive cost as you point out.
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Maybe a plug in hybrid was a good option for your use. But while ICE is still available, people are still free to chose.
EV's will actually make ICE cars future bargains. The demand for ICE cars will slowly fall away (already happening with non ULEZ cars). I know some here doubt that, but it will happen. There will be a tipping point.

The market "is" being flooded with ex lease EV's. The earlier incentives got businesses buying. People now see plenty for sale and think it is because they are not wanted. This saturation is meaning some absolute bargains. I'm relying on this for my next car etc. (my current EV is mainly for the wife)
Car dealers are wary of having too many EV's on the lot because of this faster initial depreciation.

The problem for EV's isn't really about the cars. It's the trust from people who haven't owned one, and are not sure about future problems. (practical problems around charging too) This is where misinformation is doing the damage. Some people just don't want them, and are happy to rubbish them. Others have a vested interest to keep us buying fossil fuels.

What is true is that early Nissan Leaf's did suffer early battery problems. They didn't have a properly managed battery, so suffered short life spans. They were at the cheap end of the market. Renault Zoe's did it slightly differently. Their batteries were leased, so any problems were covered under warranty (up to a point). We are light years away from them now. Saying that, Audi really messed up with their first electric versions. Small range with poorly designed cars and expensive. So it's not just the low end etc.
 
crooky said:
I'm honestly not sure if I'd consider an EV even if the electricity was all paid for.

If you can't charge at home then they're in my mind massively inferior to what we have. All the messing around waiting hours for your car to charge, faffing with all the different apps, getting to a charger and finding it doesn't work, queuing for the chargers etc. It sounds like a massive pain the arse.

Found about these earlier. The power to the wheels comes from the electric motors alone. So you'd get the instant torque like a full fat EV. The big advantage is that there's a petrol generator that charges the battery and runs the electric motor so there's no need to charge it up anywhere. It basically works how diesel trains work. I.e it's not the engine directly linked to the wheels as such but via it powering electric motors instead.

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I’m able to charge from home but I’ve never had an issue charging it away from home either.

Just about to drive to France in it at the weekend, that’ll be the real test.
 
meltonblue said:
I’m able to charge from home but I’ve never had an issue charging it away from home either.

Just about to drive to France in it at the weekend, that’ll be the real test.
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Just occasionally using public chargers vs having to charge using public chargers all the time though is a totally different use case.

You'll be fine with the long journey. Just keeping topping up to 70/80% every so often shouldn't be too bad.

*I'm assuming going from 20% to 80% doesn't take too long on a decent charger?
 
crooky said:
Just occasionally using public chargers vs having to charge using public chargers all the time though is a totally different use case.

You'll be fine with the long journey. Just keeping topping up to 70/80% every so often shouldn't be too bad.

*I'm assuming going from 20% to 80% doesn't take too long on a decent charger?
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No, about 20 mins to half an hour. It’s a lease car so I tend to charge to 100% most of the time anyway.

And agree fully, always said if I couldn’t charge at home I wouldn’t have got an electric. It was that and getting it as a salary sacrifice through work, not sure I’d buy outright personally yet, at least not for both me and my wife.
 
meltonblue said:
No, about 20 mins to half an hour. It’s a lease car so I tend to charge to 100% most of the time anyway.

And agree fully, always said if I couldn’t charge at home I wouldn’t have got an electric. It was that and getting it as a salary sacrifice through work, not sure I’d buy outright personally yet, at least not for both me and my wife.
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We charge to 85% instead of the recommended 80%. Most EV batteries have a hidden 5%. That's why they quote battery capacity and "usable" capacity. It's used for battery management if a cell dies etc. So i worked out that 85% is still good for the battery. We do this to be kind to future owners! We do charge to 100% if we know we are going on a trip though.

We also only aim for to 80% on the road. Not for battery health. It's mainly because the charge rate drop dramatically after 80%. I'd rather be on my way and stop again if i have to. I would charge a bit higher if it meant i could get home without having to stop again.
 
I've had my new ev 1 week, its a skoda enyaq sportline x in blue of course. Just a joy to drive, silent, powerful, safe and packed full of tech. You can customise the interior lighting, it came set to red its now sky blue. It's the 3rd ev I've had and each time they just get better.
I think that people just need to go and have a test drive of a few EVs it will change your mind about just how good they are and stop reading crappy clickbait articles on the daily fail.
 
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